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Thread: How strong is Byakuya?

  1. #31
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Toby_Temple's Avatar
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    Re: How strong is Byakuya?

    I'll put Byakuya above Komamura, Soifon and Toushiro.

    Compared to Mayuri, I think he has enough data on Byakuya to counter most(if not all) of his attacks.
    NO to KUROSAKI ICHIGO USING a BOW!!!

  2. #32
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Firebird0ne's Avatar
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    Re: How strong is Byakuya?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryuzaki L View Post
    Spoiler show


    Sorry, I'm too lazy to read your "argument"
    lol, kinda figured you would be. It takes effort to fight logic.

    ---------- Post added at 10:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:39 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Toby_Temple View Post
    I'll put Byakuya above Komamura, Soifon and Toushiro.

    Compared to Mayuri, I think he has enough data on Byakuya to counter most(if not all) of his attacks.
    While I agree that Mayuri would initially give Byakuya a hard time by anticipating well his attacks, the battle between Byakuya and Tsukishima shows that even when countered capably, Byakuya can 'think on his feet' and create new strategy. Still, Mayuri would give him trouble. But then, he knew a lot in his battle with Uryu and lost to him. Knowledge is only useful if the power and strategy are also top notch.

  3. #33
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Toby_Temple's Avatar
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    Re: How strong is Byakuya?

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebird0ne View Post
    While I agree that Mayuri would initially give Byakuya a hard time by anticipating well his attacks, the battle between Byakuya and Tsukishima shows that even when countered capably, Byakuya can 'think on his feet' and create new strategy. Still, Mayuri would give him trouble. But then, he knew a lot in his battle with Uryu and lost to him. Knowledge is only useful if the power and strategy are also top notch.
    That is like saying A defeated B. C is way better than A, so C will win against B.

    We can also use that as an argument to claim that Uryuu can beat any Shinigami captain since he won against one before. Still, it does not make it a sound one.

    Mayuri's battle with Uryuu is also a learning experience for him about quincies. It is only from that experience that he was able to conclude the possibility(now a reality) that quincies will be able to steal bankais.

    However, his experience with Byakuya is far more exceeding than that of Uryuu. And Byakuya is a captain level shinigami. So obviously, Mayuri will view him(as an opponent) differently than Uryuu.
    NO to KUROSAKI ICHIGO USING a BOW!!!

  4. #34
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    Re: How strong is Byakuya?

    Well, Byakuya is strong, but there are quite some Shinigami who are stronger than him.

    I would put Byakuya above the likes of Mayuri, Komamura, Soi Fong and Hitsugaya (at least until Hitsugaya shows how strong he has gotten with his new Bankai, but it's unfortunately stolen, so we won't learn it soon), but then Byakuya is obviously weaker than other current Captains, either Vaizards or pure Shinigami like Ukitake, Unohana, Kenpachi and Shunsui.

  5. #35
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Firebird0ne's Avatar
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    Re: How strong is Byakuya?

    Quote Originally Posted by Toby_Temple View Post
    That is like saying A defeated B. C is way better than A, so C will win against B.
    Actually, no, it's not. I was giving an example of how knowing someone and all of their powers does not necessarily mean the one 'in the know' will win. I also showed with that example that Byakuya is good at thinking on his feet and making new strategy when the usual fails. Point made, you just misunderstood.

    ---------- Post added at 09:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:29 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge D. Dragon View Post
    Well, Byakuya is strong, but there are quite some Shinigami who are stronger than him.

    I would put Byakuya above the likes of Mayuri, Komamura, Soi Fong and Hitsugaya (at least until Hitsugaya shows how strong he has gotten with his new Bankai, but it's unfortunately stolen, so we won't learn it soon), but then Byakuya is obviously weaker than other current Captains, either Vaizards or pure Shinigami like Ukitake, Unohana, Kenpachi and Shunsui.
    Byakuya is not weaker, nor has he ever been shown to be weaker than Ukitake, whose illness is ALWAYS getting in the way, or the vaizards who struggled with their Espada foes while Byakuya beat Zommari using only one hand and one foot. You are entitled to your opinion, and so am I.

  6. #36
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Toby_Temple's Avatar
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    Re: How strong is Byakuya?

    Quote Originally Posted by FireBirdOne
    Actually, no, it's not. I was giving an example of how knowing someone and all of their powers does not necessarily mean the one 'in the know' will win. I also showed with that example that Byakuya is good at thinking on his feet and making new strategy when the usual fails. Point made, you just misunderstood.
    I got your point.

    What you failed to understand from my A>B>C argument is that Mayuri is not Tsukishima and Byakuya is not Uryuu.

    The fight is captain-level shinigami vs captain-level shinigami. I doubt Tsukishima had any comprehension on what a captain-level shinigami is. And Mayuri had no actual updated info on quincies other than what was recorded in SS.

    On Byakuya's latest fight, how did his "good at thinking on his feet and making new strategy" worked for him?

    So a Mayuri vs Byakuya will be a bankai vs bankai fight. And we all know that Mayuri can modify his bankai to give him an advantage.
    NO to KUROSAKI ICHIGO USING a BOW!!!

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    Re: How strong is Byakuya?

    Firebird0ne
    Well, Ukitake is stated by Yama to be stronger than all those who came after from Shinigami academy, so excluding Kenpachi and Unohana he should be stronger than others. With maybe exception of current Vaizard Captains, since they were quite strong as pure Shinigami even 100 years ago and they also have a Hollowfication for a hundred years, so they might be around his strength. Also Isshin might be stronger, since he managed to fight Aizen toe to toe with his sealed sword.
    We've never seen Ukitake's Bankai and it might be quite a gamechanger...

    And about Byakuya's opponent from Espada... Zomari was quite a fodder compared to other Espadas. He was the second weakest after Aaroniero... So making it a fit... And Byakuya needed Bankai to defeat his opponent. The same Vaizards and Shunsui managed to do their job with Shikais, so of course they were struggling, especially considering the difference between their respective opponents. And well as a matter of fact neither of Vaizards became serious during their respective fights against Espada, since they barely showed any Shinkai moves.
    The same Shunsui, when got serious, quite comfortably took down the second strongest Espada.

  8. #38
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Hakuteiken's Avatar
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    Re: How strong is Byakuya?

    Zommari could have killed a lot of people with his release. He wasn't as powerful, but his unique power made him a much more difficult opponent than the most.
    Long story short, his power was hax. Byakuya only won because he could control his blades with his mind without moving around, which isn't a luxury all Shinigami has. Plus, Byakuya's absolute defense from Senbonzakura would definitely help him against Starkk's wolf pack, making him a rather suitable fighter to take on Starkk, although it wouldn't be easy for him to bring down Starkk at any case.

    He's probably a tad below Shinji, since the latter has more experience to speak of. I would refrain from putting him below Rose or Love.
    Well, Ukitake.. It's a tough one. Presumably, Ukitake is around Kyouraku's level, making him superior to Byakuya, but we haven't seen what he's capable of yet. Maybe we will get a better picture when he gets a focus in the future Quincy fights. Right now, there is no point in calling it one way or another.

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  10. #39
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Firebird0ne's Avatar
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    Re: How strong is Byakuya?

    Quote Originally Posted by Toby_Temple View Post
    I got your point.

    What you failed to understand from my A>B>C argument is that Mayuri is not Tsukishima and Byakuya is not Uryuu.

    The fight is captain-level shinigami vs captain-level shinigami. I doubt Tsukishima had any comprehension on what a captain-level shinigami is. And Mayuri had no actual updated info on quincies other than what was recorded in SS.

    On Byakuya's latest fight, how did his "good at thinking on his feet and making new strategy" worked for him?

    So a Mayuri vs Byakuya will be a bankai vs bankai fight. And we all know that Mayuri can modify his bankai to give him an advantage.
    That does not guarantee him a win.

    And as for the battle against As Nodt, I already pointed out that the four advance captains lost their bankai, their strongest tool easily, thanks to faulty information. Given that and As Nodt's particular power, I don't think any standing captain would have easily overcome that. Byakuya is a powerful fighter, recognized as that and respected for it by the likes of Ichigo and co. You don't see Kurotsuchi having others respect him on that level. But this is pointless. You have nothing to prove that Mayuri could actually defeat Byakuya. His bankai, even modified still looks and acts basically the same, and we haven't seen the levels of development we have in Byakuya's. There is evidence to support Byakuya's power, not so much Mayuri's. But as I said, you are free to keep your opinion. Just try to allow others to keep theirs as well.

  11. #40
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Crystal Black's Avatar
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    Re: How strong is Byakuya?

    Byakuya is a very powerful Captain. But I'd like to say almost all Captains have equal chances of defeating each other under the right circumstances. Abilities and Reiatsu alike play important roles in Bleach battles. Byakuya Imo has the highest chance of defeating most other captain levels just because of his abilities and his skill-set. Kubo said it himself, their is not a weakness in his arsenal. People are also getting to hung up on this Godpachi thing, blowing things out of proportion, because of mainly two reasons; "Speacial War Potential" and His most recent Victory over Unohana. Before this, Byakuya and Zaraki were considered "rivals". Although I don't agree with it to an extent, but I could see a few reasons why, like their conflicting backgrounds and approach to battle itself.

    I think Kubo has made it obvious now, that simply being strong is not enough to defeat Byakuya Kuchiki. Unless your overwhelmingly stronger than Byakuya(Which most if not all captain level shinigami are not) or you have a completely broken ability, Byakuya has a fair chance of defeating you.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge D. Dragon View Post
    Firebird0ne
    And about Byakuya's opponent from Espada... Zomari was quite a fodder compared to other Espadas. He was the second weakest after Aaroniero... So making it a fit... And Byakuya needed Bankai to defeat his opponent. The same Vaizards and Shunsui managed to do their job with Shikais, so of course they were struggling, especially considering the difference between their respective opponents. And well as a matter of fact neither of Vaizards became serious during their respective fights against Espada, since they barely showed any Shinkai moves.
    The same Shunsui, when got serious, quite comfortably took down the second strongest Espada.
    Zommari was far from fodder Jorge. "Fastest Sonido of all the Espada" and a pretty broken ability in Amor would defeat a lot of people under the right "Circumstance". I put emphasis on circumstances because this also have important factors on the outcome of Bleach fights. Byakuya did not need bankai to ultimately defeat him either. Shikai was enough, which says a lot because Byakuya really defeated Zommari with only Kido and his sealed Zanpakutou. But again that was all situational. Also note Shunsui had some help during that fight which also gained him the advantage.
    Smiling Devil


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  13. #41
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    Re: How strong is Byakuya?

    Crystal Black
    1. Zomari's fastest Sonido was just a boast. I think it was quite explained by Kubo already. I think it was obvious that at least Ulquiorra, Hallibel, Barragan and Starrk were considerably faster than Zomari.
    2. Yes, Amor is broken (even though I think it shows it's real power not in a one on one battle, but in a team fight ), but why he was the 9th in terms of power among Espada, rivalled only by Aaroniero? I would argue that most of the Captains would have dealt with released Zomari as good as Byakuya or even better (even though people might not agree with me on this point).
    3. Actually to take down Zomari Byakuya needed Bankai in the end.

    http://www.mangareader.net/94-755-18...apter-301.html
    http://www.mangareader.net/94-755-19...apter-301.html
    He even used Gokei, so it wasn't even a nameless attack.
    http://www.mangareader.net/94-755-23...apter-301.html

    4. Yes, Shunsui had help in his fight, but he wasn't serious all the fight. He even played dead, before Vaizards came in. He became serious only, when it was needed and ended it quite easily with one of his games. And I hope we won't compare Starrk who was a second strongest Espada and Zomari who was the second weakest.

    P.S. Overall, I've never said that Byakuya was weak, just that he is a good average Captain and that's quite a good position for him. Maybe he will become stronger in the current Arc, but for now he is, where he is.

  14. #42
    ~ Forum Fixer ~ 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Miyagi's Avatar
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    Re: How strong is Byakuya?

    Please refrain from getting personal and try to respond to the ideas.

  15. #43
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member NoOneInParticular's Avatar
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    Re: How strong is Byakuya?

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebird0ne View Post
    Byakuya is not weaker, nor has he ever been shown to be weaker than Ukitake, whose illness is ALWAYS getting in the way, or the vaizards who struggled with their Espada foes while Byakuya beat Zommari using only one hand and one foot. You are entitled to your opinion, and so am I.
    That's a bit of an oversimplification to be fair. Byakuya's Bankai was perfectly suited to defeating Zommari, being made up of millions of blades whilst Zommari only had fifty or so eyes. The outcome of that battle actually had little to do with strength at all. Not to say it diminishes Byakuya's skills, but he was certainly helped by the circumstances - his Bankai matching Zommari's power perfectly, and well, Zommari being a bloody idiot and actively giving Byakuya the chance to outmanoeuvre him several times. Hitsugaya got the same luxuries with Harribel, Love and Rose did not.
    Plus, losing that hand and foot in the first place would go to show that it wasn't an easily won fight, from a certain point of view.

  16. #44
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Firebird0ne's Avatar
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    Re: How strong is Byakuya?

    Quote Originally Posted by NoOneInParticular View Post
    That's a bit of an oversimplification to be fair. Byakuya's Bankai was perfectly suited to defeating Zommari, being made up of millions of blades whilst Zommari only had fifty or so eyes. The outcome of that battle actually had little to do with strength at all. Not to say it diminishes Byakuya's skills, but he was certainly helped by the circumstances - his Bankai matching Zommari's power perfectly, and well, Zommari being a bloody idiot and actively giving Byakuya the chance to outmanoeuvre him several times. Hitsugaya got the same luxuries with Harribel, Love and Rose did not.
    Plus, losing that hand and foot in the first place would go to show that it wasn't an easily won fight, from a certain point of view.
    Actually, the loss of his hand and foot was an expression of his arrogance, something that both he and Zommari displayed in the battle in its early stages. You must have missed the significance, but it was a very clear plot point that both were arrogant, but Byakuya overcame his arrogance and easily trounced a fully released Zommari.

    In any case, you should read Crystal Black's earlier posts. The point she made that is so very true is that it is not any one skill, but a range of skills, situational dynamics and sometimes 'luck of the draw' that decides a battle. And I could easily make the argument that many to most of the battles in Bleach have 'convenient' situational factors that affect them. It makes for interesting battles. Take Byakuya vs' Tsukishima. Byakuya was the perfect opponent for Tsukishima because although Tsuki could invade his past and make himself aware of all of the man's abilities, in addition to playing with his mind and making a controlling connection between them. He lost to Byakuya because he assumed that the bond he faked would be stronger than that between Byakuya and Ichigo. He was wrong...dead wrong...

    Anyway, you make a lot of bold conclusions about battles, but do not show any real proof that Byakuya just 'had it easier.'

    I will say it again. Byakuya is the leader of the greatest of the noble clans, and he is the strongest leader in the Kuchiki clan's history. He is not going to be an average captain, given those facts. He is exceptional. There are a few captains who could probably beat him in a battle, but they would be very few. And before you start talking about other captains' powerups that we know of, remember that we have yet to see what Byakuya's powerup will be. I think that if he was not an upper level captain, he wouldn't be in the ROYAL REALM AT THE COMMAND OF THE KING... If he was mediocre, I doubt the king would bother with him. And remember too that Kirinji complemented the ALL of the ones he healed in the healing pool, Ichigo the most of course, but he said all of them were impressive. That is evidence of the quality of the ones he treated.

    That said, there is clear evidence that Byakuya is an exceptional captain. That does not mean he is the 'top dog.' But it means he's up there among the strongest.

  17. #45
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Toby_Temple's Avatar
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    Re: How strong is Byakuya?

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebird0ne View Post
    That does not guarantee him a win.
    And I never claimed a guaranteed win. I claimed a guaranteed advantage in favor of Mayuri.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebird0ne
    And as for the battle against As Nodt, I already pointed out that the four advance captains lost their bankai, their strongest tool easily, thanks to faulty information. Given that and As Nodt's particular power, I don't think any standing captain would have easily overcome that. Byakuya is a powerful fighter, recognized as that and respected for it by the likes of Ichigo and co. You don't see Kurotsuchi having others respect him on that level.
    I don't see anyone respecting Aizen after his rebellion. Did that affect how powerful he was back then?

    Did Zaraki show any ounce of respect for Royd/Fake Bach? No. Who ended up being more powerful? Royd/Fake Bach.

    Yamamoto showed respect to the 3 minions of Hallibel. Did it mean that Yamamoto viewed those 3 to be powerful?

    Respecting someone in Bleachverse is not the same as claiming that someone is indeed powerful. And disrespecting someone in Bleachverse has no bearing on how powerful that someone is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebird0ne
    But as I said, you are free to keep your opinion. Just try to allow others to keep theirs as well.
    I hate to break it down to you but that statement is quite ironic for you to make after making this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebird0ne
    But this is pointless. You have nothing to prove that Mayuri could actually defeat Byakuya. His bankai, even modified still looks and acts basically the same, and we haven't seen the levels of development we have in Byakuya's. There is evidence to support Byakuya's power, not so much Mayuri's.
    The bolded portion is not a statement of opinion. That is an assertion of what you blindly accept as fact.

    Nothing. Really? So you are absolutely certain that Mayuri could not defeat Byakuya, even though none of us have actually witness them fighting?

    We have not seen much evidence on how powerful Ukitake is. Can we then logically claim as a fact that he could not defeat Byakuya?

    ---------- Post added at 02:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:31 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Crystal Black
    Byakuya Imo has the highest chance of defeating most other captain levels just because of his abilities and his skill-set.
    There is basically no evidence to make such an opinion about Byakuya.

    Mayuri, on the other hand, would be a handful if he was an enemy of SS. The same can be said of Urahara.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crystal Black
    People are also getting to hung up on this Godpachi thing, blowing things out of proportion, because of mainly two reasons; "Speacial War Potential" and His most recent Victory over Unohana.
    Not just that. He was deemed worthy of the title Kenpachi by the first Kenpachi and the only one who had remained alive for so long and considered as the most diabolical villain in SS.

    And now the path towards Zaraki's bankai is open wide. Just imagine the power up that he will acquire in the future.
    NO to KUROSAKI ICHIGO USING a BOW!!!

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