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Thread: How strong is Byakuya?

  1. #61
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    Re: How strong is Byakuya?

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebird0ne View Post
    Whew! I think someone's had a little too much caffeine. Well, you certainly are a passionate person, I'll give you that. But you need to slow down and read more carefully. First of all, I did not say that the ranking system was that cut and dried. I said that in general, the higher ranked would be stronger, but that lower ranks could have dangerous skills that, properly utilized, as in Lloyd's case, could undo a much more capable fighter.
    And here is the first assumption. Someone with E is higher ranked than F or G. Someone with Y is higher ranked then Z. That's wrong. Those letters have NOTHING to do with ranks, as far as we know. They have to do with powers. It's convenient, that Kirge's Jail is stronger than, for example, Overkill and Question, or even Roar. Damn, even than Royd and Lloyd's Yourself. Or do you think, that someone like Kirge trained to be better than everyone with letters K-Z so there won't be any chaos? xd Nope. Those letters are all about powers. A and B are for leader and his right hand man. From there, everything is just a matter of their power. J can be stronger than F, Z can be stronger than C. C-Z is sorted by first letters of ability's name, not by their power.

    Quote Quote:
    But still, you can't escape the fact that the sternritters Zaraki killed, while having the status of a letter and being better than fodder soldiers, they were not impressive. None of the three were even close to as dangerous as As Nodt. And about Bambietta, the little pervy black widow girl? You haven't a clue what her powers even are. They were not shown. So, you shouldn't say there's no way she's more dangerous than As Nodt. At most, one would assume from the rank Bach granted her, that she is able to fight on the same level as As Nodt. And actually, As Nodt is one who just has a really freaky skill.
    How do you know, that Bankai Byakuya wouldn't be able to trash As Nodt? Because base Kenpachi = Bankai Byakuya, at least back then. Saying they had to be weak because their "rank" was low (stop with this flawed logic about ranks...) is just your assumption. For all we know, they could be just as strong as As Nodt. Question's ability was pretty mind fucking. Fear is also tricky, but it forces you to overcome fear. Sometimes you can't. But Kenpachi is hella strong without shikai or bankai. They feared Bankais, so they disabled it. But there's a fighter who can be bankai-level fighters with pure swordmanship and speed. Question got owned because of speed, Roar was owned because of his power. Loyd the Yourself was owned, because... well, Kenpachi is Kenpachi. He probably took off his seal when Loyd transformed and killed him. And I'm sure, that Loyd wasn't able to use his body as good as he did.


    Quote Quote:
    He never even tried to use anything but that basic skill before stealing Byakuya's bankai, and after, he only used Byakuya's own power to attack him. So it's not clear exactly how powerful or what abilities most of the Sternritters have because we really haven't seen them. Still, military ranks are assigned with power level as a real deciding factor. You won't see weaklings at the top, and the lower numbers are ranked that way for a reason.
    Yup, that's why A and B are Juha and Haschwald. But saying that someone with C has ability with C as first letter, and is stronger than D is just ridicoulous. For example. Royd and Loyd had their abilities FROM BIRTH. Their ability was "Yourself". They had to be given letter Y. Did they have to train to be stronger than Z, but weaker than everyone with letters A-X? This logic just doesn't make sense. What decides this order is NOT RANK OR POWER, but ability. Stop making up things so your poor little Byakuya can have excuse for losing so badly and not even being able to cut his opponent.

    Quote Quote:
    Byakuya isn't powerful because of being born a noble. He is the strongest leader in the history of the Kuchiki clan, and the leader of the strongest of the noble clans. The noble clans, as has been stated more than once in the manga, tend to produce exceptionally talented shinigamis. That's a fact. And Byakuya being at the top of that heap says something about his power. Also, Kubo has played up the connection between Byakuya and Kenpachi as 'frenemies' all through the manga. Add to that the fact that Kenpachi tries to goad Byakuya into fighting and try to remember that Kenpachi wouldn't have an interest in doing that if Byakuya wouldn't make a worthy opponent. I know you don't like it, but Byakuya is powerful, and he is going to be powered up like everyone else. And like all of the other captains, he will play an important role in the battles.
    Yes, as I said, they WERE equals in HM arc. But now Kenpachi will get shikai and bankai. Hey, do you remember As Nodt vs Byakuya? How badly shikai lost against bankai? You still can't grasp difference in power after achieving shikai and bankai? Look at non-shikai Ichigo and Bankai Ichigo.

    Quote Quote:
    And look, as long as Byakuya is still breathing, he's got room to grow. I'd say he has more possibilities because Senbonzakura may have been destroyed and, if so, you don't know what will take its place.
    Destroyed? Nah, it was just taken. He still has Shikai. Stop making things up, PLEASE. Those "may have been" shouldn't have place in that discussion.

    Quote Quote:
    And you might want to tone down your rhetoric about the 'fanboy' thing. just because you disagree does not give you the right to be rude to others here. You don't know anything about me, so you really shouldn't be drawing wild conclusions.

    Have you tried warm milk to soothe that hot temper of yours? I prefer a good herbal tea, myself.
    It's not the first time someone accuses you of being simple Byakuya fanboy. In every thread Byakuya is mentioned you appear and start spouting nonsense. I was discussing all those topics few times with you, but you just keep on saying the same thing. You're just annoying. And it has nothing to do with hot temper. It's just I hate your guts.

  2. #62
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Firebird0ne's Avatar
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    Re: How strong is Byakuya?

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    And here is the first assumption. Someone with E is higher ranked than F or G. Someone with Y is higher ranked then Z. That's wrong. Those letters have NOTHING to do with ranks, as far as we know. They have to do with powers. It's convenient, that Kirge's Jail is stronger than, for example, Overkill and Question, or even Roar. Damn, even than Royd and Lloyd's Yourself. Or do you think, that someone like Kirge trained to be better than everyone with letters K-Z so there won't be any chaos? xd Nope. Those letters are all about powers. A and B are for leader and his right hand man. From there, everything is just a matter of their power. J can be stronger than F, Z can be stronger than C. C-Z is sorted by first letters of ability's name, not by their power.
    I did not say any of that nonsense you are spouting. I said that in any military, rankings have to do with status...but that weaklings don't get placed near the top, so necessarily, ones ranked higher are going to be more powerful/dangerous than ones ranked lower. If there's no sense to designations, then what purpose do they serve?



    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    How do you know, that Bankai Byakuya wouldn't be able to trash As Nodt? Because base Kenpachi = Bankai Byakuya, at least back then. Saying they had to be weak because their "rank" was low (stop with this flawed logic about ranks...) is just your assumption. For all we know, they could be just as strong as As Nodt. Question's ability was pretty mind fucking. Fear is also tricky, but it forces you to overcome fear. Sometimes you can't. But Kenpachi is hella strong without shikai or bankai. They feared Bankais, so they disabled it. But there's a fighter who can be bankai-level fighters with pure swordmanship and speed. Question got owned because of speed, Roar was owned because of his power. Loyd the Yourself was owned, because... well, Kenpachi is Kenpachi. He probably took off his seal when Loyd transformed and killed him. And I'm sure, that Loyd wasn't able to use his body as good as he did.
    First of all, I never said Byakuya would or wouldn't have trashed As Nodt with bankai, although it is true that the Sternritters fear bankai, and that's why they had to make the medallions to counter it. You're putting words in my mouth. Secondly, as I said above, there is a reason that military rankings are employed. And while is it not as straightforward as A>B>C>D, in general fighters given a higher ranking are granted that by virtue of their fighting ability. That's a fact. I didn't make that up.


    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    Yup, that's why A and B are Juha and Haschwald. But saying that someone with C has ability with C as first letter, and is stronger than D is just ridicoulous. For example. Royd and Loyd had their abilities FROM BIRTH. Their ability was "Yourself". They had to be given letter Y. Did they have to train to be stronger than Z, but weaker than everyone with letters A-X? This logic just doesn't make sense. What decides this order is NOT RANK OR POWER, but ability. Stop making up things so your poor little Byakuya can have excuse for losing so badly and not even being able to cut his opponent.
    I am not making anything up. I am relying on the facts regarding military rankings...any military rankings. And I don't have to give Byakuya excuses for losing. The clearest example of his power and ability is that Kubo chose him to be taken apart by As Nodt. Kubo wanted to show a POWERFUL captain with an IMPRESSIVE bankai lose to the Sternritters. He did that to express the danger that the Sternritters represented to the shinigamis, not to humiliate Byakuya or make him look like he was weak. The whole point of him losing the battle so badly was for the shock value of seeing a character who usually took little damage and was considered very strong before, having his own destructive power turned against him. It is to Byakuya's credit that he was chosen for that. If he was weak, then Kubo wouldn't have chosen him. There wouldn't have been any shock value to it. That, too, is a fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    Yes, as I said, they WERE equals in HM arc. But now Kenpachi will get shikai and bankai. Hey, do you remember As Nodt vs Byakuya? How badly shikai lost against bankai? You still can't grasp difference in power after achieving shikai and bankai? Look at non-shikai Ichigo and Bankai Ichigo.
    First off, you don't know whether Kenpachi will get bankai or not. Maybe he will, but that's yet to be shown. YOU should stop making things up. And I undertand very well the difference in power between shikai and bankai. Don't know where you got the idea I didn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    Destroyed? Nah, it was just taken. He still has Shikai. Stop making things up, PLEASE. Those "may have been" shouldn't have place in that discussion.
    You tell me to stop making things up, but you follow with your own 'made up' ideas. And really, everything forum members write is 'made up' based on their perceptions. Everyone has a voice here, not just you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    It's not the first time someone accuses you of being simple Byakuya fanboy. In every thread Byakuya is mentioned you appear and start spouting nonsense. I was discussing all those topics few times with you, but you just keep on saying the same thing. You're just annoying. And it has nothing to do with hot temper. It's just I hate your guts.
    I read the threads and respond about lots of things. And like everyone else here, I look at the facts and draw my own conclusions. You don't have to like them or agree with them, but you should really stop being insulting and hateful. And how can you hate a person you don't even know? Talk about spouting nonsense...Grow up and get a little more tolerant of other people and their opinions. You'll lead a happier life and have more friends that way. Ciao. I am finished talking to you and won't respond anymore, due to your lack of respect. And I don't even have to look at your ridiculous insults, because you are now ignored. You know, if you don't like my opinions, then you can hit 'ignore' and never have to read them again.
    Last edited by Firebird0ne; July 04, 2013 at 08:32 AM.

  3. #63
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    Re: How strong is Byakuya?

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebird0ne View Post
    I did not say any of that nonsense you are spouting. I said that in any military, rankings have to do with status...but that weaklings don't get placed near the top, so necessarily, ones ranked higher are going to be more powerful/dangerous than ones ranked lower. If there's no sense to designations, then what purpose do they serve?
    Quote Quote:
    As Nodt means that he was weak should think about the fact that the three Sternritters that Kenpachi killed were ranked 'Q', 'R' and 'Y', meaning that they were way lower on the totem pole than the ones that the four captains who lost their bankai fought. Also, as Sternritter 'F', As Nodt was nearly the highest ranked Sternritter shown, at the time, besides Bach and Haschwald.
    You didn't? You still think, that having letter "C" means being higher than someone with "Z"... And your reference in military is correct. We have Soldats And Sternitters. Between Sternitters, we have 2 people HIGHER than Sternitters. Juha and Haschwalt. And that's EVERYTHING. Then you have letters C-Z that are sorted by first letters of powers. THEY'RE ALL EQUAL, more or less. Of course, some powers may work better while 1v1, some powers may work better on different people. But they're still equal. C=Y, Z=D, E=F, Q=R=F.

    You want to believe it's different, because then your little Byakuya would be proven WEAK in comparison to senior captains and Kenpachi, as he was for a long time.


    Quote Quote:
    First of all, I never said Byakuya would or wouldn't have trashed As Nodt with bankai, although it is true that the Sternritters fear bankai, and that's why they had to make the medallions to counter it. You're putting words in my mouth. Secondly, as I said above, there is a reason that military rankings are employed. And while is it not as straightforward as A>B>C>D, in general fighters given a higher ranking are granted that by virtue of their fighting ability. That's a fact. I didn't make that up.
    Is it really THAT hard to understand, that letters have NOTHING to do with ranking, just with names of their powers? Juha doesn't consider someone with C stronger than Y. Well, talking about "C" is pretty dangerous, as he wasn't introduced and maybe he is Juha's left hand, but general idea is the same. It wasn't D that played major role in Juha's scheme. It was Y. By your logic, with second lowest rank...




    Quote Quote:
    I am not making anything up. I am relying on the facts regarding military rankings...any military rankings. And I don't have to give Byakuya excuses for losing. The clearest example of his power and ability is that Kubo chose him to be taken apart by As Nodt. Kubo wanted to show a POWERFUL captain with an IMPRESSIVE bankai lose to the Sternritters. He did that to express the danger that the Sternritters represented to the shinigamis, not to humiliate Byakuya or make him look like he was weak. The whole point of him losing the battle so badly was for the shock value of seeing a character who usually took little damage and was considered very strong before, having his own destructive power turned against him. It is to Byakuya's credit that he was chosen for that. If he was weak, then Kubo wouldn't have chosen him. There wouldn't have been any shock value to it. That, too, is a fact.
    Oh, so now we're stepping on Kubo's mind. IMPRESSIVE BANKAI is nonsense. Byakuya is one of the most favorite characters of Bleach, just like Kenpachi. They were both trashed to show SR's power. IT HAS NOTHING to do with Byakuya being strong or having "impressive bankai". There we go with nonsense, again.

    And nope, Byakuya wasn't considered crazy strong before. He never was. Just by fanboys. If you want to start saying "Why Kubo made Byakuya fight As Nodt" you should ask yourself. Why did Byakuya fight SEVENTH Espada, while others fought with 1-5? Why didn't he fight with Yammy alone? Don't apply your strange logic to one arc. Byakuya lost to Bankai Ichigo. And would die in like 5 seconds after Bankai activation if not for Ichigo's cockiness. Then, when Ichigo's Bankai worn him out (as it puts strain on his body), Byakuya gained advantage. The truth is, he could have been one-shotted. Just like Question and Roar by Kenpachi. But you choose to ignore it, because it'd ruin your fanboy-ish thinking.



    Quote Quote:
    First off, you don't know whether Kenpachi will get bankai or not. Maybe he will, but that's yet to be shown. YOU should stop making things up. And I undertand very well the difference in power between shikai and bankai. Don't know where you got the idea I didn't.
    What is the point of making Kenpachi learn his zanpakuto name, if he won't get Bankai? He is damn strong with only swordmanship, shouldn't have problem with a fight in inner world. Also, his Zanpakuto was trying to reach to him for years. And Kenpachi already heard his Zanpakuto name. So he has Shikai already.

    If you understand, then how can you say, that Bankai Kenpachi will be equal to Byakuya after Royal Realm? The only thing Byakuya will do is beat As Nodt, and overcome his fear. He isn't a beast, that whole SS with Yamaji feared.



    Quote Quote:
    You tell me to stop making things up, but you follow with your own 'made up' ideas. And really, everything forum members write is 'made up' based on their perceptions. Everyone has a voice here, not just you.
    Okk. So show me panels, where his Senbonzakura was destroyed. We're talking about BANKAI there, because Shikai requires pouring your reiatsu to repair. After having his Bankai stolen, he was still using Shikai. So he still had Senbonzakura. Nothing seems to indicate, that As Nodt did something to his Bankai. Basis is ridicuolous, but idea of Byakuya getting new bankai isn't. He will have to have means to fight As Nodt, if this thing Urahara is working on isn't to get back bankais. But idea of that DIFFERENT bankai boosting his power like tenfold is just ridicoulous and is something what only fanboy could say. Byakuya WILL NOT be on par with Kenpachi.



    Quote Quote:
    I read the threads and respond about lots of things. And like everyone else here, I look at the facts and draw my own conclusions. You don't have to like them or agree with them, but you should really stop being insulting and hateful. And how can you hate a person you don't even know? Talk about spouting nonsense...Grow up and get a little more tolerant of other people and their opinions. You'll lead a happier life and have more friends that way. Ciao. I am finished talking to you and won't respond anymore, due to your lack of respect. And I don't even have to look at your ridiculous insults, because you are now ignored. You know, if you don't like my opinions, then you can hit 'ignore' and never have to read them again.
    Oh, I am tolerant, trust me. But if someone keeps saying the same thing over and over again, then is showed some panels, instead of replying just keeps saying the same thing, that was proven wrong OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN. I had respect for you when we first discussed this. I can safely say, that 80% of yours posts that concern captains' strength and this topic is saying how strong Byakuya is and will be. You keep using the same arguments, that were proven wrong and use baseless assumptions saying they're facts. You keep taking real life military system to prove your completely wrong point. You use "being noble clan's head" as a testament of his strength. Well, Kenpachi isn't really noble... that's how much your "noble" is worth in this manga.
    Last edited by Duniak; July 04, 2013 at 09:46 AM.

  4. #64
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    Re: How strong is Byakuya?

    Ive always thought he was a mediocre captain. I think even toshiro can take him out. If I had to rank byakuya he would be # 9


    Can someone message me an anime that's similar to d grayman or claymore or deathnote?

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    Re: How strong is Byakuya?

    You know I was actually thinking about what his bankai will evolve into. Currently he can control the blades but in his true bankai form we see thousands of swords. Maybe as his bankai grows and he masters it he will be able to fight with 1000 swords opposed to the petal blades. That would be insane

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    Re: How strong is Byakuya?

    I could be very wrong but it always seemed to me that the younger generation captains are the weakest and tend to over rely on their Bankai.

    On that note I would say Byakuya is a mid to low tier level captain, not the weakest but definitely not one of the strongest.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Sanadan's Avatar
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    Re: How strong is Byakuya?

    Quote Originally Posted by vanyar View Post
    I could be very wrong but it always seemed to me that the younger generation captains are the weakest and tend to over rely on their Bankai.

    On that note I would say Byakuya is a mid to low tier level captain, not the weakest but definitely not one of the strongest.
    Low tier? No way, mid at the worst. Versitility like Byakuyas is rare among the rest of the captains.
    Meh

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    Re: How strong is Byakuya?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sanadan View Post
    Low tier? No way, mid at the worst. Versitility like Byakuyas is rare among the rest of the captains.
    I disagree, mid at the very best imo. Byakuya is definitely versatile but then again Kenpachi is the exact opposite and he is probably one of the stronger captains. Soifon is versatile also yet I would also rank her as one of the weaker Captains. So as versatile as Byakuya is, I don't think that translates into him being really powerful.

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    Re: How strong is Byakuya?

    Quote Originally Posted by vanyar View Post
    I disagree, mid at the very best imo. Byakuya is definitely versatile but then again Kenpachi is the exact opposite and he is probably one of the stronger captains. Soifon is versatile also yet I would also rank her as one of the weaker Captains. So as versatile as Byakuya is, I don't think that translates into him being really powerful.
    Whom would you rank above Byakuya? there are 13 captains as of now. Whom are stronger? I can't see 7 captains being stronger than him. Well actually there are 12 (until Unohana is oficially confirmed to be dead) so.....6 captains above Byakuya and if you want to move him to a lower tier he needs to be in at least the bottom third so 8 captains stronger than Byakuya. Shoot
    Meh

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    Re: How strong is Byakuya?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sanadan View Post
    Whom would you rank above Byakuya? there are 13 captains as of now. Whom are stronger? I can't see 7 captains being stronger than him. Well actually there are 12 (until Unohana is oficially confirmed to be dead) so.....6 captains above Byakuya and if you want to move him to a lower tier he needs to be in at least the bottom third so 8 captains stronger than Byakuya. Shoot
    Top Tier:
    Shunsui, Jushiro, Kenpachi, Retsu

    Mid Tier:
    Shinji, Rojuro, Love, Kensei

    Low Tier:
    Soifon, Toshiro, Mayuri, Sajin

    Imo, Byakuya would either be low mid or top of the low tier.

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    Re: How strong is Byakuya?

    Quote Originally Posted by vanyar View Post
    Top Tier:
    Shunsui, Jushiro, Kenpachi, Retsu

    Mid Tier:
    Shinji, Rojuro, Love, Kensei

    Low Tier:
    Soifon, Toshiro, Mayuri, Sajin

    Imo, Byakuya would either be low mid or top of the low tier.
    I don't agree at all. Id put Byakua at mid tier, move every vaizard under him except for Shinji who can be mid.
    Meh

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    Re: How strong is Byakuya?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sanadan View Post
    I don't agree at all. Id put Byakua at mid tier, move every vaizard under him except for Shinji who can be mid.
    I won't argue with that, I would put Shinji at the top of the Mid tier too. Is Byakuya greater than the other Vaizard? I don't know but I'm happy to put him on the Mid tier.

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    Re: How strong is Byakuya?

    Quote Originally Posted by vanyar View Post
    I won't argue with that, I would put Shinji at the top of the Mid tier too. Is Byakuya greater than the other Vaizard? I don't know but I'm happy to put him on the Mid tier.
    Hopefully we will see what Byakuya has accomplished in the Royal palace soon.
    Meh

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    Re: How strong is Byakuya?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sanadan View Post
    I don't agree at all. Id put Byakua at mid tier, move every vaizard under him except for Shinji who can be mid.
    Every Vaizard has much more experience in battle than him and they have masks. Byakuya is mid tier, but I'll never put Vaizards below him. If we're talking about pure shinigami abilities, you're right. Shinji is stronger, the rest seem not. But mask puts everyone above Byakuya making one little cute Vaizard tier that is between Mid and Top IMO. Vaizards without masks are mid, except for Shinji, who is their leader and is pretty damn strong. So strong, that I consider him Top Tier with mask. Ability that is as hax as Kyoraku's, physical abilities boosted twofold. I think he is Kyoraku's equal while wearing mask.

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    Re: How strong is Byakuya?

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    Every Vaizard has much more experience in battle than him and they have masks. Byakuya is mid tier, but I'll never put Vaizards below him. If we're talking about pure shinigami abilities, you're right. Shinji is stronger, the rest seem not. But mask puts everyone above Byakuya making one little cute Vaizard tier that is between Mid and Top IMO. Vaizards without masks are mid, except for Shinji, who is their leader and is pretty damn strong. So strong, that I consider him Top Tier with mask. Ability that is as hax as Kyoraku's, physical abilities boosted twofold. I think he is Kyoraku's equal while wearing mask.
    You don't know of their battle experience e except for what you have seen in the manga, in which the vaizards have fought less. And below is still in the same tier, being mid. And shinji doesn't really have a good skill vs byakuyas area of effect bankai.
    Meh

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