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Thread: How strong is Byakuya?

  1. #331
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Firebird0ne's Avatar
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    Re: How strong is Byakuya?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge D. Dragon View Post
    Firebird0ne
    Well, I never actually said that he wouldn't get a power-up. The thing is I can't see him having such a power-up in a shorter time then any of the other 3 in order to even become comparable to his own power before his Bankai was stolen. Bankai is the main power of every Shinigami. So without Bankai you loose more than a half of your power. And Byakuya without Bankai never won any fight in this manga. Let alone a fight against any more or less relevant opponent.

    Also, I don't get your point about Byakuya's broken Bankai. Even if it needs reforging in order to for it to get back its full power, it's still out of the question, since Byakuya doesn't have it now. So I don't get why we even bring it here.
    About Hikifune's food... Do you think her food would be a power-up comparable to lost Bankai? I seriously doubt it. I would even say that it won't be for sure.

    Also the thing is that the same Ichigo, Renji and Rukia had a big room to grow, while Byakuya had mostly reached his limit in terms of Shinigami arts. Especially since we saw his fights before and after timeskip. And he didn't grow much. Even comparable with the likes of Hitsugaya. Not even talking about Kenpachi. So why do you think Byakuya now would magically become all powerful and mighty in a matter of one or two days?
    You completely underestimate Byakuya. Kirinji complimented him on being the one to remain the longest in the hot spring, which was shown was so powerful that it could destroy bodies not durable enough to tolerate it. I wasn't the one who said that Kirio's food gave a power boost. She said it. Are you really going to argue that the power given by a RG captain won't give much of a boost? Really? Laughable!

    And as for as Byakuya not growing? Do try to remember that during the course of the manga, he not only showed a multi-level bankai, but he improved on it by adding the gokei release, as well as that clever (albeit reckless) 'hidden flower' move he created on the fly to defeat Tsukishima. Byakuya has plenty of potential. He is a young captain whom you misread as 'at his limit' merely because his bankai is well developed. But that is not the case as he has improved in the ways mentioned as well as his swordsmanship, as noted by Tsukishima during their battle.

    All four of the ones coming back from the RR are going to do so wielding significantly increased power...which is why we are waiting for their grand entrance. Kubo wouldn't be holding off on it the way he is unless it was going to be something special.

    And so what about Byakuya using bankai more than others. It was his choice to do so. It isn't necessarily that he had to. He just chose to. And now that he doesn't have bankai, he will do whatever he needs to to be powerful enough to fight the enemy. That, too, is one of his trademarks. I don't give a rat's ass if he's better than Kenny. He's coming back extremely powerful and that's why the wait to see him join the fight. As much as you don't' like it, that's how it's going. If Byakuya was as mediocre as you think, he wouldn't be in the RR getting powered up, but down in the Seireitei getting his bankai-less butt kicked like your pal Hitsugaya is about to!

  2. #332
    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
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    Re: How strong is Byakuya?

    Well, if you tried to make a joke about me being a Hitsugaya's fan - you are wrong, since I'm not the one. Though I do believe that Bankai against Bankai Hitsugaya will win over Byakuya.

    About Byakuya getting a significant power-up from Hikifune's food... Again, you are completly ignoring what I tried to say before. Byakuya lost his Bankai and without Bankai he is at best at half of his power, but if we look seriously, then it's even worth for him, so I seriously can't see how Hikifune's food can be comparable to a boost that Bankai gives.

    About Byakuya beeing strong physically... I would say it's a bad joke. He isn't even close to a middle department in terms of physical capabilities according to the manga.

    P.S. I understand you are Byakuya fan, but try to be more or less objective. He never dealt any significant damage to any more or less relevant opponent in Shikai, so it's not his choise to always use Bankai, but his need, because otherwise he would loose.
    Last edited by Jorge D. Dragon; September 25, 2013 at 06:31 AM.

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  4. #333
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity jaymizzo's Avatar
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    Re: How strong is Byakuya?

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebird0ne View Post
    Each of the four who went to the RR had something besides healing that they needed. Ichigo had a broken bankai, as did Renji. And both had their bankai reforged, although Renji's reforging wasn't shown. It was referred to.
    The only other person who was there for a different relevant reason was Renji.

    Quote Quote:
    Rukia was still haunted by her guilt over Kaien's death, and that might have been holding her back. Also, she is a great big liability as long as she can't fight for herself, because Byakuya has proven to be somewhat obsessed with her well being. She will obviously gain some skill.
    Uhmm... No. She let it go quite a while back. That did not hold her back at all. Where are you making this up from?

    Quote Quote:
    Byakuya was, of course, injured and something people forget, in addition to his bankai being stolen, it was also broken in his battle with Ichigo. That may or may not be important, but it's a fact he was in bankai when Ichigo broke his sword.
    When was it ever said or even in the slightest implied that Byakuyas Bankai was broken? His petals scattered because he did not have enough Reiatsu to fight, as he said earlier to Ichigo.

    Quote Quote:
    But to say that any of the four wouldn't get a good powerup, including Byakuya is completely off the mark.
    A power up sure but nothing that is going to be significant. Unless Rukia unlocks Bankai ofcourse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebird0ne View Post
    You completely underestimate Byakuya. Kirinji complimented him on being the one to remain the longest in the hot spring, which was shown was so powerful that it could destroy bodies not durable enough to tolerate it.
    What does him complementing him have anything to do with how powerful he is? It is more to do with his endurance or willpower than it.

    Renji was in there naked, which was also said to be highly dangerous to bodies that are not strong enough. Does that mean Renji is very powerful?

    Quote Quote:
    And as for as Byakuya not growing? Do try to remember that during the course of the manga, he not only showed a multi-level bankai
    Please stop. Those are techniques/reshaping. Not levels.

    Quote Quote:
    but he improved on it by adding the gokei release, as well as that clever (albeit reckless) 'hidden flower' move he created on the fly to defeat Tsukishima. Byakuya has plenty of potential. He is a young captain whom you misread as 'at his limit' merely because his bankai is well developed. But that is not the case as he has improved in the ways mentioned as well as his swordsmanship, as noted by Tsukishima during their battle.
    How had he improved on his swordsmanship when he was fighting an opponent who should not at all be regarded as strong?

    If you think him blowing a hole in Tsuki as swordsplay... then wow.


    Quote Quote:
    All four of the ones coming back from the RR are going to do so wielding significantly increased power...which is why we are waiting for their grand entrance. Kubo wouldn't be holding off on it the way he is unless it was going to be something special.
    Where does it say that they get anything significant? What everyone is trying to tell you is that, these guys had hundreds of years to improve, a simple day or two is not going to produce any real significant results.

    Look at the current Bankai-less captains, they trained in other techniques yet they have managed to do nothing of any significance.

    Quote Quote:
    And so what about Byakuya using bankai more than others. It was his choice to do so. It isn't necessarily that he had to. He just chose to.
    No no no no nooo. He had to. Not chose to, he had to. Every fight he has been in, he resorted to using Bankai because his Shikai was not cutting it.

    Quote Quote:
    And now that he doesn't have bankai, he will do whatever he needs to to be powerful enough to fight the enemy. That, too, is one of his trademarks. I don't give a rat's ass if he's better than Kenny.
    His trademark? After doing it... wait, can you please tell us these instances where he did whatever it took to be powerful enough to fight the enemy? If you are referring to going Bankai then... Lol.

    Quote Quote:
    He's coming back extremely powerful and that's why the wait to see him join the fight.
    Extremely powerful? Such a nice baseless assumption.


    Quote Quote:
    As much as you don't' like it, that's how it's going. If Byakuya was as mediocre as you think, he wouldn't be in the RR getting powered up, but down in the Seireitei getting his bankai-less butt kicked like your pal Hitsugaya is about to!
    So Renji is very strong and Rukia too? Im pretty sure it was explained rather clearly why those 3 were in Royal Realm to begin with.

    What, dont tell me you ignored it because you needed a reason to believe Byakuya was somehow special... Nooooo... you wouldnt...
    Last edited by jaymizzo; September 25, 2013 at 07:08 AM.
    "Man hands misery onto man" - Philip Larkin

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  6. #334
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Firebird0ne's Avatar
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    Re: How strong is Byakuya?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge D. Dragon View Post
    Well, if you tried to make a joke about me being a Hitsugaya's fan - you are wrong, since I'm not the one. Though I do believe that Bankai against Bankai Hitsugaya will win over Byakuya.

    About Byakuya getting a significant power-up from Hikifune's food... Again, you are completly ignoring what I tried to say before. Byakuya lost his Bankai and without Bankai he is at best at half of his power, but if we look seriously, then it's even worth for him, so I seriously can't see how Hikifune's food can be comparable to a boost that Bankai gives.

    About Byakuya beeing strong physically... I would say it's a bad joke. He isn't even close to a middle department in terms of physical capabilities according to the manga.

    P.S. I understand you are Byakuya fan, but try to be more or less objective. He never dealt any significant damage to any more or less relevant opponent in Shikai, so it's not his choise to always use Bankai, but his need, because otherwise he would loose.
    Hitsugaya's bankai beating Byakuya's is a joke. You will find few who will argue that he would, because Hitsugaya's bankai is newly mastered, while Byakuya's is well trained. Add to this, we've probably seen Toushiro's bankai as often as Byakuya's and he gets his butt whipped all of the time...as opposed to Byakuya, who has lost only to the protagonist and to a very powerful SR (I know you'll argue that, but you are extremely wrong and I won't point out AGAIN the many signs given in the manga that point to As Nodt's special ability being very dangerous to anyone). On top of that, Byakuya has made significant alterations to his abilities and Toushiro has not. The only major development is the loss of time restriction on his bankai. He could, with hundreds of years of training, approach the abilities of the likes of Shunsui, Kenpachi, Shinji and Byakuya, but he is still developing and could not defeat any of those four I mentioned. Just no. But keep dreaming.

    And as to Byakuya being useless without bankai, please remember, he is a flash step master who only is shown being outpaced by Yoruichi and bankai Ichigo and a kido master. I never said that he was so strong physically. He is of average physical strength, but he is durable of body and can fight, even after significant damage, as he has repeatedly proven. With Renji, he used bankai to teach him a lesson. With Zommari, the manga specifically pointed to his rage over the Espada using Rukia as a pawn as his reason for not using shikai at all, but bringing out bankai and trashing him. No one, short of Kenpachi was going to beat Yammy without a bankai, so anyone would have used bankai against the zero Espada. And yes, he fought Ichigo in bankai, but who would have been able to do so without? Ichigo beat Kenny's brute strength, so don't go there. And finally, Tsukishima...Tsukishima inserted himself into Byakuya's past and knew how to counter his every move. Of course, at that point, he went bankai...anyone else would have done so too. So, where does any of that show he's weaker because he uses bankai? He uses bankai either because he's pissed, trying to make a point, or in a situation where any of his colleagues would also use bankai (except for Kenpachi, who I have already said is probably stronger right now, pre-RR makeover. So, where exactly did he use a bankai where other captains wouldn't have needed to?

    And yes, I am a Byakuya fan, but I have said that Shunsui is more powerful and Kenpachi is probably going to be depending on what power Byakuya gains in the RR. As to the other captains (Again, I am not speaking of the maybe dead Unohana, whom, even if she comes back, won't be the same, Aizen, Urahara or Yoruichi), there is no proof you can show that puts him beneath the vizards, the constantly ill Ukitake, Kurotsuchi, Komamura, Soi Fon or Hitsugaya. There's just nothing that's been shown that proves it, so you can't support the argument.

    But argument with you is pointless because you ignore what is being said by such decisions Kubo makes as when to bring Byakuya back into the fighting. Who's fighting now? Less powerful captains Hitsugaya and Soi Fon, and their VCs. The major battles are being set in place, but the ones for those in the RR will come later and be more exciting and pivotal than these early ones. Face it, Kubo would not build two story arcs around Byakuya and constantly point out his ability if he was not among the more powerful captains. He would not be saving Byakuya's battle for later if it wasn't going to be exciting. Byakuya's battles are made front and center for a reason. He always gets powerful opponents, like Ichigo and Yammy, or ones with creepy abilities like Zommari, Tsukishima and As Nodt. And when he lost to As Nodt, there is a reason why it was shocking for readers...because it was unexpected. You are welcome to disagree, but I don't have to argue the point. When Byakuya returns, he will squash your baseless argument under his heel.

    ---------- Post added at 07:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:53 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by jaymizzo View Post
    The only other person who was there for a different relevant reason was Renji.



    Uhmm... No. She let it go quite a while back. That did not hold her back at all. Where are you making this up from?



    When was it ever said or even in the slightest implied that Byakuyas Bankai was broken? His petals scattered because he did not have enough Reiatsu to fight, as he said earlier to Ichigo.



    A power up sure but nothing that is going to be significant. Unless Rukia unlocks Bankai ofcourse.



    What does him complementing him have anything to do with how powerful he is? It is more to do with his endurance or willpower than it.

    Renji was in there naked, which was also said to be highly dangerous to bodies that are not strong enough. Does that mean Renji is very powerful?



    Please stop. Those are techniques/reshaping. Not levels.



    How had he improved on his swordsmanship when he was fighting an opponent who should not at all be regarded as strong?

    If you think him blowing a hole in Tsuki as swordsplay... then wow.




    Where does it say that they get anything significant? What everyone is trying to tell you is that, these guys had hundreds of years to improve, a simple day or two is not going to produce any real significant results.

    Look at the current Bankai-less captains, they trained in other techniques yet they have managed to do nothing of any significance.



    No no no no nooo. He had to. Not chose to, he had to. Every fight he has been in, he resorted to using Bankai because his Shikai was not cutting it.



    His trademark? After doing it... wait, can you please tell us these instances where he did whatever it took to be powerful enough to fight the enemy? If you are referring to going Bankai then... Lol.



    Extremely powerful? Such a nice baseless assumption.




    So Renji is very strong and Rukia too? Im pretty sure it was explained rather clearly why those 3 were in Royal Realm to begin with.

    What, dont tell me you ignored it because you needed a reason to believe Byakuya was somehow special... Nooooo... you wouldnt...
    Oh, and you think those three were taken to RR just for healing and to regain mediocre abilities? That is very naïve.
    Last edited by Firebird0ne; September 25, 2013 at 08:57 AM.

  7. #335
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity jaymizzo's Avatar
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    Re: How strong is Byakuya?

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebird0ne View Post
    Oh, and you think those three were taken to RR just for healing and to regain mediocre abilities? That is very naïve.
    Until said otherwise, that is exactly what they were taken there for.
    "Man hands misery onto man" - Philip Larkin

  8. #336
    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
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    Re: How strong is Byakuya?

    Firebird0ne

    Quote Quote:
    Hitsugaya's bankai beating Byakuya's is a joke. You will find few who will argue that he would, because Hitsugaya's bankai is newly mastered, while Byakuya's is well trained. Add to this, we've probably seen Toushiro's bankai as often as Byakuya's and he gets his butt whipped all of the time...as opposed to Byakuya, who has lost only to the protagonist and to a very powerful SR (I know you'll argue that, but you are extremely wrong and I won't point out AGAIN the many signs given in the manga that point to As Nodt's special ability being very dangerous to anyone). On top of that, Byakuya has made significant alterations to his abilities and Toushiro has not. The only major development is the loss of time restriction on his bankai. He could, with hundreds of years of training, approach the abilities of the likes of Shunsui, Kenpachi, Shinji and Byakuya, but he is still developing and could not defeat any of those four I mentioned. Just no. But keep dreaming.
    Well, if not for Wondie Hitsugaya's "joke Bankai" would have taken down Harribel who is Tercera Espada. And it was before timeskip. After it it was mentioned that Hitsugaya considerably improved his Bankai by fully mastering it. At the same time Byakuya never managed to take down any opponent who is even comparable to Harribel in terms of strength even with his Bankai, so why do you claim Byakuya as such an almighty individual, while calling Hitsu's Bankai as a joke?
    Also about Aes Nodt... I never said he wasn't strong. At the same time I would say he was weaker than Kirge. The only thinh he had that made him strong was his broken Fear ability. At the same time Byakuya didn't use neither his mastery in Shunpo nor in Kido against this guy and that might have helped him.

    Quote Quote:
    And as to Byakuya being useless without bankai, please remember, he is a flash step master who only is shown being outpaced by Yoruichi and bankai Ichigo and a kido master. I never said that he was so strong physically. He is of average physical strength, but he is durable of body and can fight, even after significant damage, as he has repeatedly proven. With Renji, he used bankai to teach him a lesson. With Zommari, the manga specifically pointed to his rage over the Espada using Rukia as a pawn as his reason for not using shikai at all, but bringing out bankai and trashing him. No one, short of Kenpachi was going to beat Yammy without a bankai, so anyone would have used bankai against the zero Espada. And yes, he fought Ichigo in bankai, but who would have been able to do so without? Ichigo beat Kenny's brute strength, so don't go there. And finally, Tsukishima...Tsukishima inserted himself into Byakuya's past and knew how to counter his every move. Of course, at that point, he went bankai...anyone else would have done so too. So, where does any of that show he's weaker because he uses bankai? He uses bankai either because he's pissed, trying to make a point, or in a situation where any of his colleagues would also use bankai (except for Kenpachi, who I have already said is probably stronger right now, pre-RR makeover. So, where exactly did he use a bankai where other captains wouldn't have needed to?
    Byakuya isn't as good in Shunpo as you want him to be. Even base Ichigo managed to keep with him when he barely reached Captain class after getting Bankai Byakuya is outclassed not only by Yoruichi and Ichigo, but also by Soi Fong, Kirinji, the head of Royal Guard (since he managed to keep with Kirinji more or less), Aizen (he outclasses most of Shinigami in the most of departments), Isshin (he was quite easily able to keep with Aizen's speed).
    And about his Kido... It's not a mastery. If you want to see Masters in Kidou, then they are Tessai, Hachi, Aizen and Urahara. Byakuya is just average in this department.

    Quote Quote:
    And yes, I am a Byakuya fan, but I have said that Shunsui is more powerful and Kenpachi is probably going to be depending on what power Byakuya gains in the RR. As to the other captains (Again, I am not speaking of the maybe dead Unohana, whom, even if she comes back, won't be the same, Aizen, Urahara or Yoruichi), there is no proof you can show that puts him beneath the vizards, the constantly ill Ukitake, Kurotsuchi, Komamura, Soi Fon or Hitsugaya. There's just nothing that's been shown that proves it, so you can't support the argument.
    Well, it's quite logical that Vaizards are stronger since they never even went all-out and never used their Bankai. At the same time all of them managed to quite comfortably tie in their fights in the War even though they were not shown using even Shikai, while Byakuya stated that he needed Bankai in order to win against his opponent who wasn't even using Vollstaendig. And you should remember that neither of Vaizards were shown fighting in Bankai seriously as well as Ukitake. And well you might don't like Ukitake, but manga actually states that he and Shunsui were the ones who were the strongest ones who graduated from Academy. Of course we don't consider Aizen here since he fooled Yama with illusions as well as Isshin since he was in Human World for a long time so he might have progressed, but still he might not have surpassed neither Ukitake nor Shunsui.
    About Komamura, Mayuri and Soi Fong... Well, I don't even get why you bring them, since I never even brought them up.

    Quote Quote:
    But argument with you is pointless because you ignore what is being said by such decisions Kubo makes as when to bring Byakuya back into the fighting.
    You actually took my words) I wanted to say the same.)

  9. #337
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: How strong is Byakuya?

    Quote Quote:
    Renji was in there naked, which was also said to be highly dangerous to bodies that are not strong enough. Does that mean Renji is very powerful?
    I guess tour friend is missing the fact that the healing spring is dangerous only for those who are healed.... There is no purpose in a spring that can damage people who are already close to death.

    Also who ever use hikifune food and a powerup in the same sentence. Her food just gives a powerup for a while. so that the ones who it it could actualy train harder and really become more powerful its not a long term powerup otherwise Hikifune wouldnt get slim every time she makes food for others and she also would already at Hougyoku aizen level since she's been eating this food for decades at least

  10. #338
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Firebird0ne's Avatar
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    Re: How strong is Byakuya?

    Quote Originally Posted by jaymizzo View Post
    Until said otherwise, that is exactly what they were taken there for.
    *giggles*
    You just stick to that, then.

    ---------- Post added at 12:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:13 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by ReiWen View Post
    I guess tour friend is missing the fact that the healing spring is dangerous only for those who are healed.... There is no purpose in a spring that can damage people who are already close to death.

    Also who ever use hikifune food and a powerup in the same sentence. Her food just gives a powerup for a while. so that the ones who it it could actualy train harder and really become more powerful its not a long term powerup otherwise Hikifune wouldnt get slim every time she makes food for others and she also would already at Hougyoku aizen level since she's been eating this food for decades at least
    Where did you get your information about Hikifune's food? Did you make that up? She said herself what it does.

    Here...

    http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...5-page-19.html

    There you go. There is nothing said at all about the powerup being temporary. It says that they are brimming with reiatsu on an unfathomable level and will make that power over into their own. Sounds like a serious and permanent powerup to me. And as to her making the food and getting thin, she doesn't get thin because the power doesn't last. She gets thin using the power to infuse her food.

    ---------- Post added at 01:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:20 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge D. Dragon View Post
    Firebird0ne


    Well, if not for Wondie Hitsugaya's "joke Bankai" would have taken down Harribel who is Tercera Espada. And it was before timeskip. After it it was mentioned that Hitsugaya considerably improved his Bankai by fully mastering it. At the same time Byakuya never managed to take down any opponent who is even comparable to Harribel in terms of strength even with his Bankai, so why do you claim Byakuya as such an almighty individual, while calling Hitsu's Bankai as a joke?
    Also about Aes Nodt... I never said he wasn't strong. At the same time I would say he was weaker than Kirge. The only thinh he had that made him strong was his broken Fear ability. At the same time Byakuya didn't use neither his mastery in Shunpo nor in Kido against this guy and that might have helped him.


    Byakuya isn't as good in Shunpo as you want him to be. Even base Ichigo managed to keep with him when he barely reached Captain class after getting Bankai Byakuya is outclassed not only by Yoruichi and Ichigo, but also by Soi Fong, Kirinji, the head of Royal Guard (since he managed to keep with Kirinji more or less), Aizen (he outclasses most of Shinigami in the most of departments), Isshin (he was quite easily able to keep with Aizen's speed).
    And about his Kido... It's not a mastery. If you want to see Masters in Kidou, then they are Tessai, Hachi, Aizen and Urahara. Byakuya is just average in this department.


    Well, it's quite logical that Vaizards are stronger since they never even went all-out and never used their Bankai. At the same time all of them managed to quite comfortably tie in their fights in the War even though they were not shown using even Shikai, while Byakuya stated that he needed Bankai in order to win against his opponent who wasn't even using Vollstaendig. And you should remember that neither of Vaizards were shown fighting in Bankai seriously as well as Ukitake. And well you might don't like Ukitake, but manga actually states that he and Shunsui were the ones who were the strongest ones who graduated from Academy. Of course we don't consider Aizen here since he fooled Yama with illusions as well as Isshin since he was in Human World for a long time so he might have progressed, but still he might not have surpassed neither Ukitake nor Shunsui.
    About Komamura, Mayuri and Soi Fong... Well, I don't even get why you bring them, since I never even brought them up.


    You actually took my words) I wanted to say the same.)
    Would you please stop spitting out speculation as though it was fact? It's rather annoying. And get your facts straight. 1. Toushiro did not 'take down' Harribel. She survived his ice tower and was fighting him plus several vizards when AIZEN cut her down. He was no match for her. 2. You do not know how Byakuya's flash step compares to Soi Fon or the others you mention Again, you speculate the others are faster, but we have only seen him outpaced by Yoruichi and Ichigo in the manga. You can't make conclusions about the others without direct evidence. But his use of Utsusemi proves he is wicked fast and has higher level skills than most. 3. Look in the databook at Byakuya's stats. He has WAY better than average kido. You are crazy to suggest different. And again, you have nothing showing HOW he compares to the ones you try to compare him to. Byakuya is probably the most versatile captain because he is above average in so many areas (Again, read the databook for the numeric proof on that. It's in there.)

    You are quite desperate for Byakuya to be mediocre, but you are fighting a mountain of evidence that says different...Two arcs as Ichigo's main nemesis, way above average skills scores in the databook and numerous references to his strength, speed and use of kido in the manga. I think you're reading a different manga than everyone else. Byakuya is not an average captain, in any sense of the word. He is well above average.
    Last edited by Firebird0ne; September 25, 2013 at 02:53 PM.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: How strong is Byakuya?

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebird0ne View Post
    Would you please stop spitting out speculation as though it was fact? It's rather annoying.
    I know that quote isn't directed at me but the irony is brilliant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebird0ne View Post
    And get your facts straight. 1. Toushiro did not 'take down' Harribel. She survived his ice tower and was fighting him plus several vizards when AIZEN cut her down. He was no match for her. 2. You do not know how Byakuya's flash step compares to Soi Fon or the others you mention Again, you speculate the others are faster, but we have only seen him outpaced by Yoruichi and Ichigo in the manga. You can't make conclusions about the others without direct evidence. But his use of Utsusemi proves he is wicked fast and has higher level skills than most. 3. Look in the databook at Byakuya's stats. He has WAY better than average kido. You are crazy to suggest different. And again, you have nothing showing HOW he compares to the ones you try to compare him to. Byakuya is probably the most versatile captain because he is above average in so many areas (Again, read the databook for the numeric proof on that. It's in there.)
    1. Toshiro defeated Tier. She was incapacitated. If not for WW she was not getting out.

    2. Soifon is comparable to Yoruichi, they fought together, Soifon actually managed to land several hits on her, Byakuya couldn't keep up with Yoruichi holding Ichigo. Also the Bankai Hichigo who dominated Byakuya or just Bankai for that matter, was in turn held off by all the Visored for ten minutes.

    3. Databooks stats are relative to the individual.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebird0ne View Post
    You are quite desperate for Byakuya to be mediocre, but you are fighting a mountain of evidence that says different...Two arcs as Ichigo's main nemesis, way above average skills scores in the databook and numerous references to his strength, speed and use of kido in the manga. I think you're reading a different manga than everyone else. Byakuya is not an average captain, in any sense of the word. He is well above average.
    Based on everything we have seen, Byakuya is one of the weaker Captains.

    He relies consistently on using his full power. Compare him to other Captains. Yama, Kisuke, Aizen, Shunsui, Isshin, Yoruichi, Retsu, Kenpachi, Shinji, Rose, Love and Kensei. All of these Captains have demonstrated the ability to fight high level opponents without using their full power, opponents stronger than Byakuya has faced at full power. Byakuya needs to use his Bankai to defeat weaker opponents like Zommari and Tsukishima.

    I think it's pretty self explanatory that Byakuya, at the moment, is one of the weaker Captains based on what we have seen.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Firebird0ne's Avatar
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    Re: How strong is Byakuya?

    Quote Originally Posted by vanyar View Post
    I know that quote isn't directed at me but the irony is brilliant.



    1. Toshiro defeated Tier. She was incapacitated. If not for WW she was not getting out.

    2. Soifon is comparable to Yoruichi, they fought together, Soifon actually managed to land several hits on her, Byakuya couldn't keep up with Yoruichi holding Ichigo. Also the Bankai Hichigo who dominated Byakuya or just Bankai for that matter, was in turn held off by all the Visored for ten minutes.

    3. Databooks stats are relative to the individual.



    Based on everything we have seen, Byakuya is one of the weaker Captains.

    He relies consistently on using his full power. Compare him to other Captains. Yama, Kisuke, Aizen, Shunsui, Isshin, Yoruichi, Retsu, Kenpachi, Shinji, Rose, Love and Kensei. All of these Captains have demonstrated the ability to fight high level opponents without using their full power, opponents stronger than Byakuya has faced at full power. Byakuya needs to use his Bankai to defeat weaker opponents like Zommari and Tsukishima.

    I think it's pretty self explanatory that Byakuya, at the moment, is one of the weaker Captains based on what we have seen.
    Blah, blah, blah...
    Do you know any other tunes? You consistently ignore the facts of the manga and downplay the FACTS presented in the databook. Until you accept what is there in black and white, you will never be convincing. You are still trying to argue that Kubo built the first two arcs based on Ichigo's battle with a mediocre captain? Do you even realize that the Ichigo/Byakuya battle is still the best on record? There's a reason why. Get a clue and stop trying to spread Bya-hate.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: How strong is Byakuya?

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebird0ne View Post
    Blah, blah, blah...
    Do you know any other tunes? You consistently ignore the facts of the manga and downplay the FACTS presented in the databook. Until you accept what is there in black and white, you will never be convincing. You are still trying to argue that Kubo built the first two arcs based on Ichigo's battle with a mediocre captain? Do you even realize that the Ichigo/Byakuya battle is still the best on record? There's a reason why. Get a clue and stop trying to spread Bya-hate.
    What facts have I ignored? Speaking of ignoring your doing a good job of it yourself. All the manga "facts" you have provided are nothing more than stating Byakuya is a powerful Shingami, nothing comparable to other Captains. Prove me otherwise.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Firebird0ne's Avatar
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    Re: How strong is Byakuya?

    Quote Originally Posted by vanyar View Post
    What facts have I ignored? Speaking of ignoring your doing a good job of it yourself. All the manga "facts" you have provided are nothing more than stating Byakuya is a powerful Shingami, nothing comparable to other Captains. Prove me otherwise.
    You have already stuck your head in the sand and refused to accept the comparative statistics given in the databook. The statistics are not given for nothing. They are given so that we can see how the captains COMPARE to each other. And of the ones included in the rankings, Byakuya shows the greatest versatility, being exceptional in all areas but raw physical strength (where he is average for a captain). And I did prove what I said. Byakuya was the main antagonist of the first two arcs. You can't possibly argue that Kubo built the foundation for the manga on the enmity between Ichigo and a mediocre captain. That makes no sense at all! It's not something you can refute. It's a fact. Bleach's popularity as a manga was built on the popularity of that struggle between the two, and the most epic battle to date was between who? Byakuya and Ichigo. Ichigo fought others, but the battle with Byakuya stood out and has not been equaled because Ichigo was fighting one of the most powerful captains...not a mediocre one. You wanted proof? There's the proof. Byakuya is among the most powerful of the current captains.

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    Re: How strong is Byakuya?

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebird0ne View Post
    You have already stuck your head in the sand and refused to accept the comparative statistics given in the databook. The statistics are not given for nothing. They are given so that we can see how the captains COMPARE to each other.
    I told you the stats are relative to each individual. This is obvious. A direct comparable example from the manga would be when Sajin fights Aizen. If we compare strength stats from the databook, Aizen is 20 points lower than Sajin in that department. Yet with a swing of his sword Aizen easily defeated Sajin's Bankai.

    Also if you are using the databooks to suggest that Byakuya's stats make him a stronger Captain despite stats being relative, then, again, you are mistaken. Kenpachi has the lowest stats of all Captains yet he is one of the stronger Captains.

    So again, the databooks are a moot point. Again if you can disprove any of these statements, go ahead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebird0ne View Post
    And of the ones included in the rankings, Byakuya shows the greatest versatility, being exceptional in all areas but raw physical strength (where he is average for a captain). And I did prove what I said. Byakuya was the main antagonist of the first two arcs. You can't possibly argue that Kubo built the foundation for the manga on the enmity between Ichigo and a mediocre captain. That makes no sense at all! It's not something you can refute. It's a fact. Bleach's popularity as a manga was built on the popularity of that struggle between the two, and the most epic battle to date was between who? Byakuya and Ichigo.
    Popularity =/= strength. Plot focus =/= strength. You do realize that's not an argument, what your actually saying and I'm kinda in disbelief, but essentially your saying because Byakuya is popular.... he is one of the stronger Captains? So.. Ichigo defeats Byakuya and because this is a popular fight, it means that Byakuya is one of the stronger Captains? Is this what your actually saying?

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebird0ne View Post
    Ichigo fought others, but the battle with Byakuya stood out and has not been equaled because Ichigo was fighting one of the most powerful captains...not a mediocre one. You wanted proof? There's the proof. Byakuya is among the most powerful of the current captains.
    That's a slight contradiction. If the battle with Byakuya stood out and has not been equaled because it showed Ichigo fighting one of the stronger Captains, why did it show Byakuya losing so easily?
    Last edited by vanyar; September 25, 2013 at 07:30 PM.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Notak's Avatar
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    Re: How strong is Byakuya?

    I think Byakuya's likely going to come back stronger than before, and I think it's going to be a stronger upgrade than Hitsu and Soi Fong's. He might even get a new bankai forged for him. If so I think it'd be cool if he'd manage to take back his bankai and combine it with the newly forged one.

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member druzod's Avatar
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    Re: How strong is Byakuya?

    I do think that Byakuya might be senior level captain in power after his royal guard training, since he was already high-tier before his near death experience.
    He will most likely save the day for some shinigamis and kill AS NODT as a revenge with his new found power and confidence.
    Release the World Engine!

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