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Thread: Kido goes the way of the dodo

  1. #16
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Kido goes the way of the dodo

    Quote Originally Posted by SoulAuron View Post
    i think hachigan fought very wel with kido, he defeated the goddamn 2 espada with just kido, by using it in the way it is suposed to be used, figure out what is the best way to get arround a situation, not spam and nuke, and my idea is that kido cant replace zampakuto unless you are really good at it, after all a zampakuto is made of the things you are best at, ecxept for yoruichis technique, that thing can replace a bankai probably.
    my point in the kido corps thing is that even for kido there are the people that are best with a certain kind and the people that are best with others, so hachigan may very well be "bad" at destruction ones and that is why he tired himself with that kido 100 years ago, he seems to be best at barriers and stuff, considereing that he only uses those no matter what the situation is in a battle, following that logic other member sof the kido corps wouldnt be useless at all, only they would have to fight compatible enemies for us to see their ture potential, also we havent seen a single zampakuto from kido corps people yet, considering that a zan takes your best talents and how you fight, there is a 99% chance that their zans will be related to kido and usable with kido to make very powerfull and usefull stuff, that is, for a true kido user, the zan does not replace kido, it complements the kido.
    Well, none of that is too different from what I am saying. Yes, hachi did well with kido, but he is presumably the second best kido user in the manga. He is not what your regular exceptionally talented shinigami with the potential to be a VC or captain can reasonably aspire to be, he is a massive exception and even that is kinda underestimating just how unique hachi really is given his talents. Zampakuto from the kido corps are bound to be just zampakuto overall... Even if they are related to kido then odds are they would just use them much like urahara does which is precisely the opposite of going kido in battle(kinda). And the rest of the kido corps would still be useless at large. They would be like every other division in that only the captain and VC are worth a penny (unless it is one of those divisions where there are a couple others with VC level power but that is hardly the norm). There should be a new captain and VC for the kido corps though, I wonder if we will see them....

  2. #17
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member SoulAuron's Avatar
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    Re: Kido goes the way of the dodo

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    Well, none of that is too different from what I am saying. Yes, hachi did well with kido, but he is presumably the second best kido user in the manga. He is not what your regular exceptionally talented shinigami with the potential to be a VC or captain can reasonably aspire to be, he is a massive exception and even that is kinda underestimating just how unique hachi really is given his talents. Zampakuto from the kido corps are bound to be just zampakuto overall... Even if they are related to kido then odds are they would just use them much like urahara does which is precisely the opposite of going kido in battle(kinda). And the rest of the kido corps would still be useless at large. They would be like every other division in that only the captain and VC are worth a penny (unless it is one of those divisions where there are a couple others with VC level power but that is hardly the norm). There should be a new captain and VC for the kido corps though, I wonder if we will see them....
    well, if you pay atention to uruharas zan, you will see that its abilities look like modified kido, and then there is the kido he used against aizen that is a modification of byakurai, and its red, the same theme of his zan, im jaust saying that we know squat about uruharas zan and what it does, for all we know it could very well modify and help his own kido, only we have seen the end result, not what it really does, and my theory is that the zampakuto of the kido corps will be something like that as well, something that can be used very well in conjunction with kido.
    heres what i think is the explanation to BB having multiple DF:
    http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showth...t=#post3373390
    here is what orihimes powers are and where shinigami power comes from.
    http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showth...t=#post3446556

  3. #18
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member NoOneInParticular's Avatar
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    Re: Kido goes the way of the dodo

    Quote Originally Posted by Renaan View Post
    Towards the end of the Aizen fight, he perfect a perfect lvl 90 Kido with complete incantation, even Aizen is impressed with himself when he's performed it...

    Yet even back then (using a fraction of his current strength) ichigo is able to shatter it with one swing of his blade.

    Now it seems there are people beyond that level, people who I doubt will just stand there and allow their opponents to recite a whole incantation.

    So the question is.... will be ever see Kido being used in combat from here on in

    I for one see it as a great opportunity missed.
    I don't think Ichigo or anyone else is anywhere near as strong as he and Aizen were during that particular battle. Both lost that power immediately afterwards; Ichigo lost his power entirely and had to regain it, after which point it's not been clear how strong he is in relation, and Aizen either lost his powers completely or simply went back to being a Shinigami, I'm not entirely sure which. But yeah, it's not that everyone that's appeared since is even stronger, just that power levels have gone back to the norm. All that stuff about 'Transcendence' came and went and is done with (for now).

    Captain-class is still very much relevant, although it's true with the arrival of the Royal Guard and certain other people we do seem to be entering a stage of even stronger guys entering the fray. Still, the strength of Kido has everything to do with who's using it, so there's no reason to think these guys aren't going to make use of it too.

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  5. #19
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member SoulAuron's Avatar
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    Re: Kido goes the way of the dodo

    Quote Originally Posted by NoOneInParticular View Post
    I don't think Ichigo or anyone else is anywhere near as strong as he and Aizen were during that particular battle. Both lost that power immediately afterwards; Ichigo lost his power entirely and had to regain it, after which point it's not been clear how strong he is in relation, and Aizen either lost his powers completely or simply went back to being a Shinigami, I'm not entirely sure which. But yeah, it's not that everyone that's appeared since is even stronger, just that power levels have gone back to the norm. All that stuff about 'Transcendence' came and went and is done with (for now).

    Captain-class is still very much relevant, although it's true with the arrival of the Royal Guard and certain other people we do seem to be entering a stage of even stronger guys entering the fray. Still, the strength of Kido has everything to do with who's using it, so there's no reason to think these guys aren't going to make use of it too.
    yup, someone else said before too, but ichigo isnt as strong now as he was before loosing his powers, for one thing we had no mention of the power being so high others cant feel it, he is certainly very powered up from what he was when he achieved bankai, like 100 times stronger, but it seems to me that the power he had post dangai receeded, much like how his hair shrunk, and that happened because he trully lost his shinigamy powers, so untill his bankai was broken he had more experience and a better developed fullbring improved bankai, but it wasnt near the level of post dangai and FGT, though he will eventually surpass that by a huge margin, that moment hasnt come yet.
    as for aizen, his power is sealed, but he doesnt look the same as he did before all the transformations, i think some changes remain, like being half hollow half shinigamy, but the power he gained from the hogioku can easily be regained if uruharas seal is removed, and that will aslo probably happen eventually.
    heres what i think is the explanation to BB having multiple DF:
    http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showth...t=#post3373390
    here is what orihimes powers are and where shinigami power comes from.
    http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showth...t=#post3446556

  6. #20
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Lee.J.Baxter's Avatar
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    Re: Kido goes the way of the dodo

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    I am of the idea that kido is ultimately too specialized for it to be useful to most people. Low level kido is overall weak and does not have enough power to be relevant safe for a few things (like when byakuya uses byakurai to hit in short range). High level kido is difficult to use, requires a lot of power and is only ultimately useful if you can skip the incantation which also seems to be a high level skill which takes time to learn. Overall there are 4 disciples a shinigami has to learn as master when he fights so naturally he has to make a choice when it comes to deciding what to train. Even if a shinigami masters level 90th kido without an incantation, can it really surpass the power of a bankai? Is it worth it to develop that instead of an actual shikai and bankai? Bankai is an innate power to the user, I would think that a shinigami would be wise to spend time developing that rather than kido in the grand scheme of things. Only top class shinigami can even use high level kido in the middle of battle as far as we have seen and even what little we have seen usually fills some extremely specific roles in the battle or is used against weaker opponents. As far as we have seen only 90th level kido could actually match bankai and to be honest even that might be a bit of a stretch. Even urahara can't use level 90th kido properly without an incantation....
    I'm not so sure on this one. If you're saying that Bankai is the ultimate attack, thus making Kido useless, then why bother using any other attack at all???...

    The first thing about Kido is that there are different types used for different purposes. Hado is used for attacking, but Bakkudo is used to restrain an enemy. If a Shinigami is facing an insanely agile opponent, and their Bankai is powerful but sluggish, they may consider using a high-level Bakkudo to restrain the enemy before they whallop them with their Bankai. A clever use of Bakkudo was also demonstrated against Barragan, where Bakkudo was used to increase the effectiveness of Soifon's Bankai by containing its blast within a set of barriers, along with Barragan. Also remember that Kido was ultimately used to destroy him, which couldn't have been achieved with Bankai (unless there was an individual present who had a Bankai with the ability to surround an object with a barrier and teleport it).

    The second thing about Kido is that several can be combined together. Even the most powerful Bankai may not hold a candle to half a dozen high-level Hado attacks mixed together. "But how in the hell can you launch several high-level Hado WITH incantations against an enemy???...they're not just gonna politely stand there whilst you recite an entire novel!!!"...well, you use Bakkudo to restrain them first!!!

    The final thing about Kido that I'll mention is that its simply an alternative to other techniques. A prime example where Kido might be used is in the current arc against the Vandenreich; I bet we'll see a battle soon where a captain-level Shinigami loses their Bankai to a medallion, but manages to win against their opponent by the skilled use of Kido...

    ---------- Post added at 11:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:03 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by SoulAuron View Post
    yup, someone else said before too, but ichigo isnt as strong now as he was before loosing his powers, for one thing we had no mention of the power being so high others cant feel it, he is certainly very powered up from what he was when he achieved bankai, like 100 times stronger, but it seems to me that the power he had post dangai receeded, much like how his hair shrunk, and that happened because he trully lost his shinigamy powers, so untill his bankai was broken he had more experience and a better developed fullbring improved bankai, but it wasnt near the level of post dangai and FGT, though he will eventually surpass that by a huge margin, that moment hasnt come yet.
    as for aizen, his power is sealed, but he doesnt look the same as he did before all the transformations, i think some changes remain, like being half hollow half shinigamy, but the power he gained from the hogioku can easily be regained if uruharas seal is removed, and that will aslo probably happen eventually.
    I'm quite interested to see what will happen with Aizen. Although I believe he's truly been rejected by the Hougyoko, its recently been revealed that he has some degree of use of his powers even when he can't manifest them via his Zanpakutou. I feel that Aizen, being Aizen, will be able to use his currently limited power to trick and deceive somebody into freeing him, and will slowly regain access to his full abilities. I see his situation as being similar to that seen in some video games where the player is captured and must get through a level with limited abilities in order to get back their stash of weapons (e.g. Metroid Zero Mission, Half-Life, Resi-Evil Revelations .etc.)...

    ...after all, he would hardly be a special war potential if he were useless!!!...
    Predictions
    • Just as Quincies are evolved beings born from Humans, Shinigami are evolved beings born from Hollows.
    • Once Yhwach dies, Ichigo's Quincy powers will disappear and his soul will become unstable, causing the onset of Soul Suicide.
    • Yhwach isn't going to be the final antagonist.

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  8. #21
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Kido goes the way of the dodo

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee.J.Baxter View Post
    I'm not so sure on this one. If you're saying that Bankai is the ultimate attack, thus making Kido useless, then why bother using any other attack at all???...

    The first thing about Kido is that there are different types used for different purposes. Hado is used for attacking, but Bakkudo is used to restrain an enemy. If a Shinigami is facing an insanely agile opponent, and their Bankai is powerful but sluggish, they may consider using a high-level Bakkudo to restrain the enemy before they whallop them with their Bankai. A clever use of Bakkudo was also demonstrated against Barragan, where Bakkudo was used to increase the effectiveness of Soifon's Bankai by containing its blast within a set of barriers, along with Barragan. Also remember that Kido was ultimately used to destroy him, which couldn't have been achieved with Bankai (unless there was an individual present who had a Bankai with the ability to surround an object with a barrier and teleport it).

    The second thing about Kido is that several can be combined together. Even the most powerful Bankai may not hold a candle to half a dozen high-level Hado attacks mixed together. "But how in the hell can you launch several high-level Hado WITH incantations against an enemy???...they're not just gonna politely stand there whilst you recite an entire novel!!!"...well, you use Bakkudo to restrain them first!!!

    The final thing about Kido that I'll mention is that its simply an alternative to other techniques. A prime example where Kido might be used is in the current arc against the Vandenreich; I bet we'll see a battle soon where a captain-level Shinigami loses their Bankai to a medallion, but manages to win against their opponent by the skilled use of Kido...
    Well, isn't that what is happening already? Even soifon, the gal who hated her bankai for it being far from an assassination technique, ended up opening with her bankai against the stern riter. Soifon was a good option for such a thing since she actually does not rely as heavily on her bankai but still.

    The first thing to consider would be whether a shinigami could catch with a bakudo an opponent who is more agile and faster though.

    Well, my issue with the point you are making is that you are using hachi as an example. It is my belief that hachi can never be used as an example for what using kido should be like since hachi is such an exception among shinigami. Using hachi as an example for what should be the norm, or not even that, just vaguely resemble the norm is IMHO ultimately every bit as absurd as suggesting the norm for offensive power should be zanka no tachi north. Hachi and tessai are well capable of fighting solely with kido, we know that given their ability to use consecutive high level kido without incantations, however such a thing is ultimately not attainable for most shinigami (IMHO).


    On the final point I agree and disagree. Kido can be effective in battle however it also cannot replace something like bankai for shinigami. Overall IMO the most we can expect from regular captain class shinigami in terms of kido is what byakuya has shown us. The guy used a freaking leve 89th bakudo in the middle of a battle with no incantation, that is huge IMO. Byakuya has used kido to a great degree in the manner you describe but at the same time it has never been a triumph card, it has been a complement for what he already is good at. The more senior captains have not really displayed offensive kido in battle however the one captain who seems skilled at it at large has only used a handful of them (byakurai, sokatsui, that 6 rod rokusomethingsomething and danku) for extremely specific purposes and to complement what he was doing.

    Also consider this. The captains as of now have to fight vandenreich without bankai at large. Now, how good at kido should they be in order to be able to fight with a full powered stern riter without bankai? A stern ritern potentially has the quincy equivalent to kido, holy arrows, their letter abilities, hirenkyaku, volstandig and potentially a shinigami's stolen bankai. Now, the scenario you are suggesting is that captain class shinigami should be able to overcome all of that with smart use of kido. Now, assuming kido was a skill which any captain class shinigami could acquire to such a degree wouldn't the shinigami still be at a massive disadvantage? Just from comparing shinigami to quincy abilities it is obvious kido is not something which shinigami really hold over quincy because quincy have their own variation of kido to begin with. And even then, aren't the odds of a shinigami overcoming volstandig or bankai with kido and smarts overall absurdly low? The most obvious example of the sheer difference bankai makes would be the fight between byakuya and ichigo. The fight was basically even when both of them were using shikai however the moment byakuya activated bankai shikai ichigo became fodder.

    The few shinigami who have shown some level of kido proficiency in battle safe for tessai and hachi are yamamoto, aizen, urahara and byakuya. Yamamoto's only kido was one where he lost his arm. Urahada needed to use incantations for level 90th kido. Aizen was in the same boat and the manga specifically said that level 90th kido without the incantation did not give him good results (not even a third of its intended power). Urahara's important feat in battle in regards to kido would be the moment when he used consecutive bakudo to seal aizen more than the level 90th kido he hit aizen with. Byakuya seems to have developed highly specific kidos for very specific moments at large so far rather than developing a wide array of them. Now, every shinigami which I just mentioned is ultimately extremely talented... Wouldn't that imply that the extremely limited kido which they have shown so far is the most that just "extremely talented" shinigami can acquire? Its not that shinigami are negligent with kido, its that they have to be as exceptional as anyone I just mentioned to just get to that level of kido. Which takes us back to my point that hachi and tessai are bad points of references to the whole thing because even a fraction of their skill at kido is literally impossible for most extremely talented guys around. Its not a matter of giving it time or working hard, it just can't be done... It would be like asking why can't every talented golf player be like tiger woods.

  9. #22
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Kido goes the way of the dodo

    Kido serves two purposes in Bleach:
    -it makes fighting more interesting than simple sword-play.
    -as a form of magic, it provides a useful tool for the author to advance the plot.

  10. #23
    Banned 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Kido goes the way of the dodo

    Quote Originally Posted by lexx View Post
    Kido serves two purposes in Bleach:
    -it makes fighting more interesting than simple sword-play.
    -as a form of magic, it provides a useful tool for the author to advance the plot.
    1. It is rarely used in fights. Nowadays, almost NEVER.
    2. Advance the plot? When and how?

  11. #24
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member SoulAuron's Avatar
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    Re: Kido goes the way of the dodo

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    Well, isn't that what is happening already? Even soifon, the gal who hated her bankai for it being far from an assassination technique, ended up opening with her bankai against the stern riter. Soifon was a good option for such a thing since she actually does not rely as heavily on her bankai but still.

    The first thing to consider would be whether a shinigami could catch with a bakudo an opponent who is more agile and faster though.

    Well, my issue with the point you are making is that you are using hachi as an example. It is my belief that hachi can never be used as an example for what using kido should be like since hachi is such an exception among shinigami. Using hachi as an example for what should be the norm, or not even that, just vaguely resemble the norm is IMHO ultimately every bit as absurd as suggesting the norm for offensive power should be zanka no tachi north. Hachi and tessai are well capable of fighting solely with kido, we know that given their ability to use consecutive high level kido without incantations, however such a thing is ultimately not attainable for most shinigami (IMHO).


    On the final point I agree and disagree. Kido can be effective in battle however it also cannot replace something like bankai for shinigami. Overall IMO the most we can expect from regular captain class shinigami in terms of kido is what byakuya has shown us. The guy used a freaking leve 89th bakudo in the middle of a battle with no incantation, that is huge IMO. Byakuya has used kido to a great degree in the manner you describe but at the same time it has never been a triumph card, it has been a complement for what he already is good at. The more senior captains have not really displayed offensive kido in battle however the one captain who seems skilled at it at large has only used a handful of them (byakurai, sokatsui, that 6 rod rokusomethingsomething and danku) for extremely specific purposes and to complement what he was doing.

    Also consider this. The captains as of now have to fight vandenreich without bankai at large. Now, how good at kido should they be in order to be able to fight with a full powered stern riter without bankai? A stern ritern potentially has the quincy equivalent to kido, holy arrows, their letter abilities, hirenkyaku, volstandig and potentially a shinigami's stolen bankai. Now, the scenario you are suggesting is that captain class shinigami should be able to overcome all of that with smart use of kido. Now, assuming kido was a skill which any captain class shinigami could acquire to such a degree wouldn't the shinigami still be at a massive disadvantage? Just from comparing shinigami to quincy abilities it is obvious kido is not something which shinigami really hold over quincy because quincy have their own variation of kido to begin with. And even then, aren't the odds of a shinigami overcoming volstandig or bankai with kido and smarts overall absurdly low? The most obvious example of the sheer difference bankai makes would be the fight between byakuya and ichigo. The fight was basically even when both of them were using shikai however the moment byakuya activated bankai shikai ichigo became fodder.

    The few shinigami who have shown some level of kido proficiency in battle safe for tessai and hachi are yamamoto, aizen, urahara and byakuya. Yamamoto's only kido was one where he lost his arm. Urahada needed to use incantations for level 90th kido. Aizen was in the same boat and the manga specifically said that level 90th kido without the incantation did not give him good results (not even a third of its intended power). Urahara's important feat in battle in regards to kido would be the moment when he used consecutive bakudo to seal aizen more than the level 90th kido he hit aizen with. Byakuya seems to have developed highly specific kidos for very specific moments at large so far rather than developing a wide array of them. Now, every shinigami which I just mentioned is ultimately extremely talented... Wouldn't that imply that the extremely limited kido which they have shown so far is the most that just "extremely talented" shinigami can acquire? Its not that shinigami are negligent with kido, its that they have to be as exceptional as anyone I just mentioned to just get to that level of kido. Which takes us back to my point that hachi and tessai are bad points of references to the whole thing because even a fraction of their skill at kido is literally impossible for most extremely talented guys around. Its not a matter of giving it time or working hard, it just can't be done... It would be like asking why can't every talented golf player be like tiger woods.
    the things that you say are all very logical, but thinking on the logic of story build up, the manga has shown that most of the characters we saw using kido could not use it as well as it could thoreticaly be used, its like every oportunity we see it being used it is implied that there is still a considerable lack of something to make it great, folowing a rational logic that takes into account what we saw so far, we would arrive at the same conclusions you have, save for a few divergences regarding our opinions about the things we dont yet know about kido, that is, how it works really (since we only saw it being used, it was never explained well to us), but those are not the only things that one should take into consideration when reading a story, those are the things that one should take into consideration most when analizing reality, but when reading a story you have to take plot twists and other things into accounts, one cannot deduce a plot twist logically, but they can see it coming, when they do it is not because the events that came before it meke it logical, the events themselves allowed for countless outcomes, but only a few would be plot worthy, and and as such, even if something seems highly unlikely at one point, that really doesnt mean anything as to wether or not it can happen, in order to try and predict the more significant things that may happen on a story, you look not for the more likely but for the more interesting, the one that has been subtely foreshadowed and denied at the same time, only for it to be shown it was actually possible all along, but we didnt know enough to able to tell it was possible yet, thus when you try to predict something in an manga, you must use theoryes and conjectures, otherwise you will only be able to see the more obvious things coming, not the more interesting ones, and since it is a story and not reality, it being interesting is already a good enough reason to believe in it if you want, as oposed to it needing to be likely.

    my point with this is that if there is a possibility that kido can be very usefull in the future, even if that possibility comes only from a theory that tries to explain what is going on rather then coming from actual evidence, it is not a reason to disbelive that theory, only we cant say its right either, form what we saw in bleach so far kido seems rather dificult to use at all, but at the same time we dont know much about kido at all, that leaves a lot of open space for ideas on how it would be possible at this last arc for some captains to use kido very well, well enough to make a major diference in the fights, form what everything you said about kido i do not believe that it is not going to be used, but rather, that it is being saved for something greather, it shows that there is much room to improve on kido, and i believe that some people are going to make it somehow, maybe when we see a good explanation on how kido works this will become clear, but i think that everthing that happened with kido so far foreshadows it being used to much greather efect, we always get a little taste of it only for it to be taken from our mouths before we can savor it, the behavior of the author when showing us kido gives me an enourmous feeling of expectation and wanting more, and i do believe that he did it on pourpouse, kubo is saving the best use of kido for last, and when that happens the reason why it can be used efectively in battle will be revealed and will come from where we least expect, that is, we who did not try to come up with seemingly crazy ideas on how to make kido trully badass.

    well, aside from all of that, i have something more concrete to say, there are people that we can be prty sure will be able to use kido instead of bankai, that is, yoruichi because of her thechnique that fuses kiod with other techniques (i forgot its name), soi fon if she also learns how to use it, and last but not least, the most underused character in bleach, tessai.
    Tessai was the kido captain 100 years ago, if the captain/vice captain relation holds true for him and hachi, then while hachi could fight using kido instead of shikai, then tessai should be able to do the same but fighting at bankai level with just kido, he is the only one i am absolutely sure can do it, but we must also remember that there are new kido captain/vice captain, and with 100 years to train, its possible that they have reached theese same levels, in fact, its possible that being able to fight with only kido (at shikai or bankai level) is a requirment to be a captain or vice captain in the kido corps, that wouldnt surprise me in the least considering that its the kido corps, a division that specializes in kido and is even separate from the gotei 13 (implying its very speccial).
    Also remember the royal guards, they are suposed to be freaking strong, and given how long some of them have been in ofice, there is no telling what they can do with kido, i wouldnt be surprised if oneof them fights using an arsenall of kido he/she developed him/herself.
    so even if the captains cannot in the end use kido super efectively, we can rest assured that this list of people i showed you will, also there is the possibility that there is actually a super kido talent like zaraki is for strength, ther can be someone who is relatively new in the kido corps (joined in less then 100 years) that is super talented in kido, learning it with ease abd thus becoming a powerhouse in it.

    ---------- Post added at 05:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:40 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    1. It is rarely used in fights. Nowadays, almost NEVER.
    2. Advance the plot? When and how?
    well, it was vital in defeating aizen, there would be no victory without uruharas special seal.
    Last edited by SoulAuron; July 02, 2013 at 02:42 PM.
    heres what i think is the explanation to BB having multiple DF:
    http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showth...t=#post3373390
    here is what orihimes powers are and where shinigami power comes from.
    http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showth...t=#post3446556

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Quantized's Avatar
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    Re: Kido goes the way of the dodo

    In the end I'm finding it exstremely likely that Kubo simply just doesn't have much interest in drawing Kido, and I believe it's as simple as that considering how the manga has been folding out over the years. Kubo made the potential of Kido being great, he made the building blocks, he made Kido absolutely deadly and powerful.
    We know some pretty deadly Kido, we know how fast Kido can be cast, and we know how powerful some characters can be, and we know intelligence is required for good Kido.
    It's just... We have never seen all that combined, despite that some characters should have all that, like Tessai for one.

    After all this, I'm of the opinion that Kudo is simply not interested in showing the potential of Kido, it could if Kubo wanted to draw the potential he shows, be the Sharingan of Bleach.
    Then perhaps, maybe it's a good thing we don't have that Yet, I can't help but miss seeing more Kido!

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Lee.J.Baxter's Avatar
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    Re: Kido goes the way of the dodo

    IMO, at the end of the day Kido is a useful tool which could potentially win a fight alone.....but that's in the hands of the right user. The problem is, most Shinigami haven't demonstrated the full potential of Kido because, as many have said, they have their Shikai and Bankai. I believe that Kido may have been used in a time before the Asauchi were invented, to supplement the Shinigami's limitations on manifesting their powers, but ever since then the Shinigami have basically cast it aside (no pun intended) and neglected its potential...

    So I think in this arc, they're probably going to learn their lesson. Without Bankai, the Shinigami are going to have to revive the study of this lost art and pray that they can gain enough skill in it just to merely survive against the Vandenreich...
    Predictions
    • Just as Quincies are evolved beings born from Humans, Shinigami are evolved beings born from Hollows.
    • Once Yhwach dies, Ichigo's Quincy powers will disappear and his soul will become unstable, causing the onset of Soul Suicide.
    • Yhwach isn't going to be the final antagonist.

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    Re: Kido goes the way of the dodo

    Quote Originally Posted by SoulAuron View Post
    well, it was vital in defeating aizen, there would be no victory without uruharas special seal.
    All Urahara's attacks look kido-based so IMO, saying he used "Kido" is wrong. We have yet to see his Zanpakuto's ability, but everything he showed so far is attacks/shields/bindings and seals. Those are his zanpakuto abilities. Almost too similar to Kido. We have fight with Yammy too, where he shot something as Cero and Bala (using the same attack of the same power to nullify it). He shot something similar to Getsuga as well. Freakin' copycat! Just like he copied every technique he saw so far and made Kido-version of it.

    And if Ichigo didn't use Mugetsu there would be no victory as well. This thread is about using Kido in actual battles. Using a hidden seal is not really what this topic is all about. Urahara used crazy Kido that he invented, that was like the most powerful thing we saw so far (Mugetsu excluded). It was a technique that could one-shot Aizen without Hogyoku. But this topic is about fights like Byakuya vs Zommari (at the very end) and Byakuya vs Renji, when he used binding techniques or shield to block Zommari's ability. Hachigen vs Barragan and Menos Grandes are good examples too. In actual battles, kido isn't commonly used now.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member SoulAuron's Avatar
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    Re: Kido goes the way of the dodo

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    All Urahara's attacks look kido-based so IMO, saying he used "Kido" is wrong. We have yet to see his Zanpakuto's ability, but everything he showed so far is attacks/shields/bindings and seals. Those are his zanpakuto abilities. Almost too similar to Kido. We have fight with Yammy too, where he shot something as Cero and Bala (using the same attack of the same power to nullify it). He shot something similar to Getsuga as well. Freakin' copycat! Just like he copied every technique he saw so far and made Kido-version of it.

    And if Ichigo didn't use Mugetsu there would be no victory as well. This thread is about using Kido in actual battles. Using a hidden seal is not really what this topic is all about. Urahara used crazy Kido that he invented, that was like the most powerful thing we saw so far (Mugetsu excluded). It was a technique that could one-shot Aizen without Hogyoku. But this topic is about fights like Byakuya vs Zommari (at the very end) and Byakuya vs Renji, when he used binding techniques or shield to block Zommari's ability. Hachigen vs Barragan and Menos Grandes are good examples too. In actual battles, kido isn't commonly used now.
    except this particular kido was cast without his zan, the red biakurai was cast from his zan, but it wasnt just a zan ability, he actually used the same process of naming and numbering and stuff you use for kido, so it could not have been a simple zan ability like the others he used, instead its almost like he used the zan to modify his kido...
    which brings me to my idea that uruharas zan actually can modify kido, with this its more correct to say that he indeed used kido, even if the seal he used on aizen was modified by benihime, which is unlikely considering he didnt cast it from his zan and that it is not red, it would still be kido even if modified.
    also he called it kido as oposed to every character with kido based zanpakuto, they never refer to theyr zan abilities as kido, but as the ability of theyr zan, uruhara called his seal kido, meaning that it is not an ability from his zan.

    and you asked about it being used as an usefull plot development tool, i just showed you it was.
    heres what i think is the explanation to BB having multiple DF:
    http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showth...t=#post3373390
    here is what orihimes powers are and where shinigami power comes from.
    http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showth...t=#post3446556

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member exacta's Avatar
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    Re: Kido goes the way of the dodo

    It's been too long since someone used Kido. Kubo should draw a pure kido fight one of these days. Or maybe a fight of kido vs Quincy spells. I wonder how kido originated anyway, maybe it was created by Ichibei or something, just like Nimaiya created the zanpakuto.

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    Re: Kido goes the way of the dodo

    Quote Originally Posted by SoulAuron View Post
    except this particular kido was cast without his zan, the red biakurai was cast from his zan, but it wasnt just a zan ability, he actually used the same process of naming and numbering and stuff you use for kido, so it could not have been a simple zan ability like the others he used, instead its almost like he used the zan to modify his kido...
    which brings me to my idea that uruharas zan actually can modify kido, with this its more correct to say that he indeed used kido, even if the seal he used on aizen was modified by benihime, which is unlikely considering he didnt cast it from his zan and that it is not red, it would still be kido even if modified.
    I don't really remember him saying. He shot, Aizen turned his head and said, "So you've finally appeared, Urahara Kisuke"

    Quote Quote:
    also he called it kido as oposed to every character with kido based zanpakuto, they never refer to theyr zan abilities as kido, but as the ability of theyr zan, uruhara called his seal kido, meaning that it is not an ability from his zan.

    and you asked about it being used as an useful plot development tool, i just showed you it was.
    If his Zanpakuto lets him use his reiatsu freely, using it however he likes (red byakurai), making a shield, making a getsuga, making bala, creating seals. Maybe it's like Ukitake's zanpakuto, but source of power is not external, but internal Ukitake's zanpakuto channels external force, amplifies it, sends back. Urahara channels Kido through his sword, amplifies it, shoots it. By channeling it through his sword it becames red.

    Seal was development tool, not a Kidos themselves. The only techniques that counted were those that Urahara invented. Aizen commented on how those Bakudos are NOTHING. We are talking like Aizen using Danku to stop Tessai, Byakuya using Danku to stop Zommari, Ukitake using Repel in fight with Lilynette. In a normal fight, it's not used. And if Urahara's zanpakuto ability is as I wrote, then him using anything other than Kido would be suspicious... :P

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