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Thread: Theories of the Four Races

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Lee.J.Baxter's Avatar
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    Theories of the Four Races

    Hi everyone, I've set up this thread to discuss the origins and relationships between the 4 main races in Bleach; that is, Humans, Hollows, Shinigami and Quincies.

    Firstly, I have a theory that these 4 races are connected to each other, and I'll explore my theory for those connections shortly. Firstly I'm going to look at 2 statements that Urahara made about these 4 races;
    • "Hollows are the opposite of Humans"
    • "Shinigami are the opposite of Quincies"
    I've had a think about this, and I've come to one conclusion; each of the 4 races represents one permutation of 2 abilities; the ability to harness inside energy/particles, and the ability to harness outside energy/particles. Here are these permutations;
    • Humans have neither of these abilities.
    • Hollows have both of these abilities, making them opposite to Humans.
    • Shinigami specialise in harnessing inner energy/particles.
    • Quincies specialise in harnessing outside energy/particles, making them opposite to Shinigami.
    Note that Shinigami and Quincies can actually manipulate both types of energy/particles to an extent, but they specialise in only one of them. Shinigami use their own internal energy to provide them with their unique powers, whereas Quincies use external energy when manipulating spirit particles. As for Hollows, they carry both abilities as they can both use their own unique powers (i.e. using internal energy), and they can consume souls to grow stronger and evolve (i.e. using external energy).

    So what connects these 4 races? Well, in my opinion it comes down to the 2 abilities; the hint is that Hollows have both abilities. Let me explain...

    From what I've read, I get the impression that the 2 abilities in Bleach are polar opposites to each other. Now, lets start off with a Human, who has neither of these abilities. When a Human dies, becomes a Plus, and is left in the world of the living for too long, the soul deteriorates.....lets phrase this differently; the soul starts to become unstable.

    My theory is when this happens, the instability causes the spirit particles making up the soul to split; the previously 'neutral' soul now has 2 separated components; one which gives it the ability to manipulate internal energy, the other which gives it the ability to manipulate external energy. Confused? Well, think of it as being similar to Electrolysis where you separate a neutral substance into acid and alkalai; you've derived 2 corrosive chemicals from something completely harmless.

    Okay, that explains how a Plus with no spiritual powers suddenly gains powerful abilities as a Hollow, but it doesn't explain where the other 2 races come from, does it?.....

    .....well, now imagine a world before Shinigami and Quincies existed. Humans weren't guided to the Soul Society; they simply became Hollows over a period of time. Some of these Hollows, just like in the present, have an insatiable hunger and devour each other, becoming Gillian...Adjucas...Vasto Lordes.....wait, there's no Shinigami or Quincies to deal with them!!! My theory...one of those Vasto Lordes levelled up!!!

    Now, we have this...Uber Menos! So, the Uber Menos is kinda full of souls, and energy.....too much energy!!! Like a nuclear bomb, the Uber Menos becomes extremely unstable and explodes into fragments; however, these fragments aren't little bits of Hollow...they're something else entirely! The large quantity of energy has actually caused the Uber Menos to split at the microscopic level, creating 2 opposite beings; the Soul King, and Juhabach!!!

    Wait...what are you saying!?!?! Are you trying to imply that Juhabach and the Soul King were originally a single being...and that being was a Hollow? Yes...yes I am!!!
    Predictions
    • Just as Quincies are evolved beings born from Humans, Shinigami are evolved beings born from Hollows.
    • Once Yhwach dies, Ichigo's Quincy powers will disappear and his soul will become unstable, causing the onset of Soul Suicide.
    • Yhwach isn't going to be the final antagonist.

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    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member zimbardo's Avatar
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    Re: Theories of the Four Races

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee.J.Baxter View Post
    Wait...what are you saying!?!?! Are you trying to imply that Juhabach and the Soul King were originally a single being...and that being was a Hollow? Yes...yes I am!!!
    Some very interesting ideas. Although I do not see the 'Uber Menos' happening - this idea (that I quoted) I do find likely (and interesting).
    Imagine his anger - his 'brother' gaining godlike power and being protected by armed guards (SS and Squad 0), whereas he is beaten, forced to live in exile and restricted to another realm (as shown when Johann Bach had to return). I could see why he would feel the need to crush SS and take back the power that he feels is rightfully his...
    Infinite RAGE!

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Lee.J.Baxter's Avatar
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    Re: Theories of the Four Races

    Quote Originally Posted by zimbardo View Post
    Some very interesting ideas. Although I do not see the 'Uber Menos' happening - this idea (that I quoted) I do find likely (and interesting).
    Imagine his anger - his 'brother' gaining godlike power and being protected by armed guards (SS and Squad 0), whereas he is beaten, forced to live in exile and restricted to another realm (as shown when Johann Bach had to return). I could see why he would feel the need to crush SS and take back the power that he feels is rightfully his...
    The reason why I think it all began with an uber-Menos is the Soul-King's and Juhabach's insane amount of power. I like your idea how Juhabach may be jealous of his 'brother'. If my theory does come to be true, I'm betting that the Soul King and Juhabach eventually become one again (thus Hollows once again emerge as the serious threat, which comes full circle with the very beginning of the manga, where the first adversary Ichigo faced was a Hollow)!!!

    Alternatively, there may be the remnants of the uber-Menos residing somewhere (which, although it has split off Juhabach and the Soul King, is still more powerful than a Vasto Lordes), and it may emerge towards the end and recombine the Soul King and Juhabach into its body!
    Predictions
    • Just as Quincies are evolved beings born from Humans, Shinigami are evolved beings born from Hollows.
    • Once Yhwach dies, Ichigo's Quincy powers will disappear and his soul will become unstable, causing the onset of Soul Suicide.
    • Yhwach isn't going to be the final antagonist.

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    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Theories of the Four Races

    I was under the impression that humans could actually use reiatsu. Fullbringers aside we have at least don kanonji and orihime and both of them seem to be capable of using reiatsu from within so to speak. I guess kanonji could be confirmed to be a fullbringer and orihime could be confirmed to be something else in the future though.

    I find the idea that hollows and humans being opposite due to one having no abilities and the other having both abilities a tad strange. It could work that way, I give you that, but to a great degree the idea that there is an opposite to having no abilities whatsoever is a tad strange to me. Not to mention that under that logic basically everything would be an opposite to human souls. I mean, if human souls have no power then its opposite would end up being a souls with power whichever it might be. Having the 2 abilities you describe would not really make a soul more "opposite" than having just one.

    Another thing, it really does not seem like the soul king and juhabach can be opposites per say.... Wouldn't juhabach be an all powerful being on the opposite end of the spectrum? Well, we don't know if the soul king is all powerful per say but we have seen him and his does seem to be something entirely weird at least, which juhabach does not seem to be. Juhabach has his own quirks but overall he seems to be something from this world who wants to usurp the throne of god so to speak. Juhabach does not have the godly air the king does have so to speak.

    I do think the king and juhabach can potentially have a similar relationship to shinigami and quincy though. We have seen asauchi by this point and they look remarkably similar to the king himself. I honestly doubt that is a coincidence so far. Nimaiya is the one who made zampakuto but I think the king himself is overall related to the process. What if zampakuto were made with shinigami souls into something modeled after the king? Juhabach would be the origin of quincy powers and the king would be the link shinigami have to their own souls. I wonder how exactly this would be connected to aizen evolving and looking more like the king and zampakuto and how would that relate to him kinda fusing with zampakuto....

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Lee.J.Baxter's Avatar
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    Re: Theories of the Four Races

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    I was under the impression that humans could actually use reiatsu. Fullbringers aside we have at least don kanonji and orihime and both of them seem to be capable of using reiatsu from within so to speak. I guess kanonji could be confirmed to be a fullbringer and orihime could be confirmed to be something else in the future though.

    I find the idea that hollows and humans being opposite due to one having no abilities and the other having both abilities a tad strange. It could work that way, I give you that, but to a great degree the idea that there is an opposite to having no abilities whatsoever is a tad strange to me. Not to mention that under that logic basically everything would be an opposite to human souls. I mean, if human souls have no power then its opposite would end up being a souls with power whichever it might be. Having the 2 abilities you describe would not really make a soul more "opposite" than having just one.

    Another thing, it really does not seem like the soul king and juhabach can be opposites per say.... Wouldn't juhabach be an all powerful being on the opposite end of the spectrum? Well, we don't know if the soul king is all powerful per say but we have seen him and his does seem to be something entirely weird at least, which juhabach does not seem to be. Juhabach has his own quirks but overall he seems to be something from this world who wants to usurp the throne of god so to speak. Juhabach does not have the godly air the king does have so to speak.

    I do think the king and juhabach can potentially have a similar relationship to shinigami and quincy though. We have seen asauchi by this point and they look remarkably similar to the king himself. I honestly doubt that is a coincidence so far. Nimaiya is the one who made zampakuto but I think the king himself is overall related to the process. What if zampakuto were made with shinigami souls into something modeled after the king? Juhabach would be the origin of quincy powers and the king would be the link shinigami have to their own souls. I wonder how exactly this would be connected to aizen evolving and looking more like the king and zampakuto and how would that relate to him kinda fusing with zampakuto....
    With the first point, I agree! After learning that Chad is a Fullbringer, I just assumed that this is the case with Orihime too, and as you pointed out it could easily be the same case with Kanonji...

    With Juhabach and the Soul King being opposite sides of the spectrum, I completely agree on this too! I can't remember how exactly Aizen and Urahara put it, but IIRC they both used the term 'polar opposite' to describe the difference between Shinigami and Quincies; in other words, they both have tremendous power, but those powers are 'ying and yang' (or in my analogy, acid and alkali)...

    As for the third point you made, I never thought about this but there may be a very good reason why the Asauchi look like the Soul King. Well, recently we saw what Quincy powers look like within the inner world; they take the appearance of Juhabach. Therefore, it may be that the Asauchi follow suit and look like the progenitor of the Shinigami, the Soul King. The blank Asauchi basically represents the common denominator of Shinigami power, which is the Soul King; once the Shinigami imprints their own unique inner spirit energy onto the Asauchi, it takes a unique appearance. The Quincy don't have this uniqueness to them (did I just invent a word?!), which is why their inner spirit doesn't reflect their own soul.

    Perhaps the reason why Aizen began to look like the Soul King when he evolved is because he was being turned back into a blank canvas; IMO, the Hougyoku was taking his KS and transforming it back into raw Shinigami power, allowing it to be used in a way that would fulfill more of Aizen's potential. When Aizen became this blank canvas, he became a less powerful version of the Soul King. Perhaps this hints at the Soul King's abilities; unlike most Shinigami, the Soul King can revert his current Zanpakutou's form and abilities into raw power, and transform this raw power back into a different Zanpakutou. In other words, it may be that the Soul King's ability is to generate any Zanpakutou with any abilities that he wishes.

    ---------- Post added at 09:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:58 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    I was under the impression that humans could actually use reiatsu. Fullbringers aside we have at least don kanonji and orihime and both of them seem to be capable of using reiatsu from within so to speak. I guess kanonji could be confirmed to be a fullbringer and orihime could be confirmed to be something else in the future though.

    I find the idea that hollows and humans being opposite due to one having no abilities and the other having both abilities a tad strange. It could work that way, I give you that, but to a great degree the idea that there is an opposite to having no abilities whatsoever is a tad strange to me. Not to mention that under that logic basically everything would be an opposite to human souls. I mean, if human souls have no power then its opposite would end up being a souls with power whichever it might be. Having the 2 abilities you describe would not really make a soul more "opposite" than having just one.

    Another thing, it really does not seem like the soul king and juhabach can be opposites per say.... Wouldn't juhabach be an all powerful being on the opposite end of the spectrum? Well, we don't know if the soul king is all powerful per say but we have seen him and his does seem to be something entirely weird at least, which juhabach does not seem to be. Juhabach has his own quirks but overall he seems to be something from this world who wants to usurp the throne of god so to speak. Juhabach does not have the godly air the king does have so to speak.

    I do think the king and juhabach can potentially have a similar relationship to shinigami and quincy though. We have seen asauchi by this point and they look remarkably similar to the king himself. I honestly doubt that is a coincidence so far. Nimaiya is the one who made zampakuto but I think the king himself is overall related to the process. What if zampakuto were made with shinigami souls into something modeled after the king? Juhabach would be the origin of quincy powers and the king would be the link shinigami have to their own souls. I wonder how exactly this would be connected to aizen evolving and looking more like the king and zampakuto and how would that relate to him kinda fusing with zampakuto....
    Sorry, I just re-read your post and realised what you were saying. It does appear on the surface that the Soul King is an all-powerful being, whereas Juhabach isn't half as impressive, but I think it's a matter of personality more than anything. I believe Juhabach is actually as powerful as the Soul King; the only reason why the Soul King looks freaky is because of his particular set of abilities (his appearance is a relfection of his internal spirit energy, just as a Hollow's is a reflection of theirs). Juhabach on the other hand is basically a Human soul with the ability to manipulate and absorb external spirit energy.

    Speaking of appearances, there's another piece of evidence suggesting that Shinigami and Quincies are actually opposite halfs of a Hollow. Arrancar basically wear a white Shinigami uniform; Shinigami have adopted the form of the Arrancar's uniform, whereas Quincies have adopted the colour. In other words, combine a Shinigami's uniform and a Quincy's uniform, and you'll get an Arrancar's uniform.
    Last edited by Lee.J.Baxter; June 26, 2013 at 02:06 AM.
    Predictions
    • Just as Quincies are evolved beings born from Humans, Shinigami are evolved beings born from Hollows.
    • Once Yhwach dies, Ichigo's Quincy powers will disappear and his soul will become unstable, causing the onset of Soul Suicide.
    • Yhwach isn't going to be the final antagonist.

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    Re: Theories of the Four Races

    I disagree with what you said about humans don't having power, it was heavily impled by urahara(if I am not mistaken) that humans CAN develop powers and it makes sense since EVERY human has spiritual energy it just they don't have enough normaly to see ghosts(it was also heavily implied that EVERY human can develop powers if he stay's long in presence of person with huge amount of spiritual energy, like Ichigo) . Even though I agree that inoues power is similar to fullbring, kanonji's power ISN'T similar in any way to fullbringers, he is manipulating raw spiritual energy while fullbringers manipulate soul inside of objects
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    Re: Theories of the Four Races

    Well, as far as kanonji goes we simply have not quite seen enough to suggest it is or it is not fullbring. He hasn't really developed anything outside of that little exploding ball. As for orihime, I would argue she is not using fullbring. The similarities are there but the differences are even greater. To begin with there is the fact that her power is very much alive. In fact her ability has a name of its own and it has never really changed shapes so far (while fullbringers name their abilities and change as they develop). Its far more similar to a zampakuto than fullbring to be honest. Perhaps even more relevant is the fact that her ability has never shown the fullbring light we see whenever fullbring is used on something. Orihime is very unique.... Perhaps she has a shinigami version of fullbring so to speak? Fullbringers are born when bits and pieces of hollow powers stick to their mothers and are passed on to kids. Perhaps shinigami powers can do the same? Of course hollows dying in the human world would be far more common than shinigami dying there.... Then again there is no reason for her hair pins to behave like an asauchi to begin with. I wonder if orihime will ever be given an asauchi. Ichigo has placed quincy, shinigami and hollow powers within asauchi so it wouldn't be that strange if whatever powers orihime has can be added to one too.

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    Re: Theories of the Four Races

    Actually there is LOTS of difference between kanonji and fullbringers, fullbringers don't generally use spiritual energy in pure form without manifesting fullbring, they manipulate mostly souls inbjects like ground, air and other stuff. kanonji uses his power without manifesting ANY object.

    Actually in chapter 481 page 10(we see on it group preparing to fight) I think, we see something that looks like bringer light around inoue. But I still think that she isn't fullbringer.

    If I am not mistaken Ginjou said that people like Ichigo born between human and shinigami are OPPOSITES of fullbringers and because of that it's possible to transfer power between them. Actually probably EVERY Substitute Shinigami(for example by transfering power to the human) is part human and part shinigami since they ARE alive and yet have shinigami power(after Ichigo's shinigami power was destroyed by byakuya, he turned into normal soul with chain connecting body with soul)
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    Re: Theories of the Four Races

    I don't think the manga has suggested fullbringers don't use reiatsu so far. Its true they manipulate objects around them but to do that they would need reiatsu to begin with. Fullbringers are spiritually aware humans who use their own reiatsu as far as I understand it.

    I checked the page you mention but it does seem like those are just the pieces of orihime's shun shun rika spining around her. I don't think that is bringer light per say. Not to mention that it would be too much bringer light so to speak, other fullbringers just show a bit of it when using fullbring.

    I don't recall ginjo saying substitute shinigami are opposites of fullbringer. All I can remember is ginjo saying it is possible for fullbringers to give their powers to substitute shinigami's.... the opposite thing wouldn't really make sense considering recent developments. The opposite of a human is a hollow so the opposite of a fullbringer(human-hollow) would be another fullbringer(hollow-human) so to speak.

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    Re: Theories of the Four Races

    I didn't mean that they don't use spiritual energy I meant that they use it in different way than kanonji, not a single fullbringer shoot spiritual energy from his hand, when they shoot energy they do it with manifested fullbring.

    I didn't say that it's bringer light I said that it LOOKS like bringer light, also in chapter 451 on page 10 there is something that looks like bringer light coming out of her shun shun rikka before "spirits" materialized.

    Bleach 433 page 13 Ginjou says that they can pass power to someone who is opposite of them which is someone with power of human and shnigami(I KNOW that technically it SHOULD be hollow-human, but he probably meant it in different way)
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    Re: Theories of the Four Races

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    Well, as far as kanonji goes we simply have not quite seen enough to suggest it is or it is not fullbring. He hasn't really developed anything outside of that little exploding ball. As for orihime, I would argue she is not using fullbring. The similarities are there but the differences are even greater. To begin with there is the fact that her power is very much alive. In fact her ability has a name of its own and it has never really changed shapes so far (while fullbringers name their abilities and change as they develop). Its far more similar to a zampakuto than fullbring to be honest. Perhaps even more relevant is the fact that her ability has never shown the fullbring light we see whenever fullbring is used on something. Orihime is very unique.... Perhaps she has a shinigami version of fullbring so to speak? Fullbringers are born when bits and pieces of hollow powers stick to their mothers and are passed on to kids. Perhaps shinigami powers can do the same? Of course hollows dying in the human world would be far more common than shinigami dying there.... Then again there is no reason for her hair pins to behave like an asauchi to begin with. I wonder if orihime will ever be given an asauchi. Ichigo has placed quincy, shinigami and hollow powers within asauchi so it wouldn't be that strange if whatever powers orihime has can be added to one too.
    i think orihimes ability is actually the combination of fullbring with something else, that or the theory about her and nimaya that is in my signature, the reason for that is because her abilities are said to resemble a vaizards, that is shinigay + hollow, and the fullbring explains the hollow part, my theory explains the shinigamy one, but there can be many other ways to go about it.

    ---------- Post added at 11:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:06 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Culaio View Post
    I didn't mean that they don't use spiritual energy I meant that they use it in different way than kanonji, not a single fullbringer shoot spiritual energy from his hand, when they shoot energy they do it with manifested fullbring.

    I didn't say that it's bringer light I said that it LOOKS like bringer light, also in chapter 451 on page 10 there is something that looks like bringer light coming out of her shun shun rikka before "spirits" materialized.

    Bleach 433 page 13 Ginjou says that they can pass power to someone who is opposite of them which is someone with power of human and shnigami(I KNOW that technically it SHOULD be hollow-human, but he probably meant it in different way)
    actually he said in the end that they can share power, but he stole ichigos power which is basicaly the same as his, so i dont think it has to do with being oposite, just with being human.
    heres what i think is the explanation to BB having multiple DF:
    http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showth...t=#post3373390

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Lee.J.Baxter's Avatar
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    Re: Theories of the Four Races

    Quote Originally Posted by Culaio View Post
    Actually there is LOTS of difference between kanonji and fullbringers, fullbringers don't generally use spiritual energy in pure form without manifesting fullbring, they manipulate mostly souls inbjects like ground, air and other stuff. kanonji uses his power without manifesting ANY object.

    Actually in chapter 481 page 10(we see on it group preparing to fight) I think, we see something that looks like bringer light around inoue. But I still think that she isn't fullbringer.

    If I am not mistaken Ginjou said that people like Ichigo born between human and shinigami are OPPOSITES of fullbringers and because of that it's possible to transfer power between them. Actually probably EVERY Substitute Shinigami(for example by transfering power to the human) is part human and part shinigami since they ARE alive and yet have shinigami power(after Ichigo's shinigami power was destroyed by byakuya, he turned into normal soul with chain connecting body with soul)
    This is quite interesting actually; the polar opposite to a Human/Shinigami hybrid would be a Hollow/Quincy hybrid! If this were to be the case, it would actually make a lot of sense as the Fullbringers share a lot of qualities with both races;
    • They manipulate external spirit energy/particles, just like Quincies do.
    • They use their own internal power, just like Hollows do.
    • They are living beings, just like Quincies.

    This whole arc is about the Quincy blood war, and I'd bet my bottom dollar that the Fullbringers have been brought back because they are also part Quincy!
    Predictions
    • Just as Quincies are evolved beings born from Humans, Shinigami are evolved beings born from Hollows.
    • Once Yhwach dies, Ichigo's Quincy powers will disappear and his soul will become unstable, causing the onset of Soul Suicide.
    • Yhwach isn't going to be the final antagonist.

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    Re: Theories of the Four Races

    Quote Originally Posted by SoulAuron View Post
    i think orihimes ability is actually the combination of fullbring with something else, that or the theory about her and nimaya that is in my signature, the reason for that is because her abilities are said to resemble a vaizards, that is shinigay + hollow, and the fullbring explains the hollow part, my theory explains the shinigamy one, but there can be many other ways to go about it.
    Was it said orihime was like a vizard? If I recall it was said hachid did get his barriers after transforming into a vizard however he did make a point that just being a vizard was not enough to attain such abilities. I don't think orihime was compared to a vizard per say basically and her abilities have never been said to be or feel similar to those of a hollow. The only straight comparison ever made was when her pins were compared to a zampakuto. Overall orihime's ability does have things that aesthetically do look like a fullbring, mainly her pins being her medium, however in the end if we take out the pin part so to speak her ability is actually far more similar to a zampakuto. Even the zampakuto is at some level similar to fullbring. An asauchi takes in the soul and essence of a shinigami. A fullbring takes in memories of a person.

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