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Translations: Gintama 510 (2) , Naruto 692 by aegon-rokudo
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Thread: Naruto Hangout Thread v.13 <3

  1. #1081
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    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.13 <3

    Quote Originally Posted by Erinyes View Post
    So... so scary, enjoy !


    Spoiler show
    Sweet merciful Buddha, what the fuck? Is this from the game?

    I honestly find this far more hilarious than I should.

    Last edited by KiSwordsman; September 10, 2014 at 08:49 PM.

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    Re: Naruto 692 Discussion / 693 Predictions | No Chapter Until ~25th

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    Sasuke getting MS can not be equated to Sage mode in terms of opportunity/gifts. It's his own power. Sage Mode for Naruto is more akin to Sasuke learning techniques, not advancing his Kekkai Genkai. There's also the issue that MS is much different and more powerful than Sage Mode.

    Aside from that, we have Sasuke being born with the Sharigan and being a genius. Naruto didn't have that. You can't equate the Kyuubi to the Cursed Seal because the cursed seal has a limit whereas the Kyuubi didn't.
    SM isn't a gift. You have to have an overall ability to perfect Sage Mode. Also, Mangekyou Sharingan was an opportunity presented by Obito. Without him, he wouldn't have awaken it. I don't think MS is more powerful than perfected SM.

    I was just showing the similarity in the feats/situation they received.

  4. #1083
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    Re: Naruto 692 Discussion / 693 Predictions | No Chapter Until ~25th

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    Naruto doesn't even learn FRS without Kurama, nor could he use Kage Bushin like he did. Sasuke was born with the ability to use the Sharigan, Naruto wasn't born with Kurama. Sasuke was a genius, Naruto wasn't and isn't.

    It's not a matter of hand outs, obviously both have been gifted certain things.

    BUT, at birth Sasuke was simply better (due to genetics) than Naruto. Naruto needed the Kyuubi to be on par with Sasuke when Sasuke wasn't using anything but the Sharigan. I'm not trying to knock Naruto, but facts are facts here. The whole point of the manga is that Naruto was the underdog, and like any underdog he's needed luck, favors, gifts, etc. to prevail over those who are better than him.
    Naruto can create mass clones without Kurama, so I don't get your point. And this claim that Sasuke was just genetically superior at birth seems pretty specious, Naruto's an Uzumaki and the son of a Hokage, as you pointed out, he's hardly lacking in the genetic sweepstakes. They're both transmigrants of Hagoromo's sons. And this whole Naruto needing luck, favours, and gifts spiel isn't any different from what one would say about Sasuke's history.
    Last edited by Impossibility; Yesterday at 02:21 PM.

  5. #1084
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    Re: Naruto 692 Discussion / 693 Predictions | No Chapter Until ~25th

    Quote Originally Posted by Roman View Post
    SM isn't a gift. You have to have an overall ability to perfect Sage Mode. Also, Mangekyou Sharingan was an opportunity presented by Obito. Without him, he wouldn't have awaken it. I don't think MS is more powerful than perfected SM.

    I was just showing the similarity in the feats/situation they received.
    The similarity isn't comparable because the Kyuubi is a greater power-up than anything Sasuke has received until he gained his brothers eyes, and Naruto has had the Kyuubi since he was about an hour old.

    Obito had nothing to do with Sasuke gaining MS (unless you are talking about him instigating the Uchiha massacre, in which case then Obito is also responsible for Naruto having the Kyuubi and gaining Sage Mode).
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

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    Re: Naruto 692 Discussion / 693 Predictions | No Chapter Until ~25th

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    The similarity isn't comparable because the Kyuubi is a greater power-up than anything Sasuke has received until he gained his brothers eyes, and Naruto has had the Kyuubi since he was about an hour old.

    Obito had nothing to do with Sasuke gaining MS (unless you are talking about him instigating the Uchiha massacre, in which case then Obito is also responsible for Naruto having the Kyuubi and gaining Sage Mode).
    Sure, but he effectively started using it in the war. Before that, it was mainly just an impulse which was uncontrollable (minus against Neji).

    Sure he did. He told him everything about Itachi. If it wasn't for him, he wouldn't found out and the immense grief wouldn't sprout it out.

  7. #1086
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Delbi's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 692 Discussion / 693 Predictions | No Chapter Until ~25th

    Quote Originally Posted by Impossibility View Post
    Naruto can create mass clones without Kurama, so I don't get your point. And this claim that Sasuke was just genetically superior at birth seems pretty specious, Naruto's an Uzumaki and the son of a Hokage, as you pointed out, he's hardly lacking in the genetic sweepstakes. They're both transmigrants of Hagoromo's sons. And this whole Naruto needing luck, favours, and gifts spiel isn't any different from what one would say about Sasuke's history.
    He can create a lot of clones, but not nearly as many as he can with the Kyuubi, that's the point. And, again, FRS is impossible for him to learn with the Kyuubi.

    The Sharigan > Uzumaki heritage. What makes the Uzumaki bloodline awesome is that it can be combined with a Biju to create the best Jinchurikis. By itself however, it pales in comparison to the the Sharigan. Even Kushina's chakra chains are not comparable to the Sharigan. So while Naruto was gifted, Sasuke was more gifted, and also had the advantage of being naturally more intelligent.

    As far as being Transmigrants that has nothing to do with genetics, because Naruto isn't a Senju.

    Yes, Sasuke has needed luck from time to time, but do you honestly think Naruto hasn't been more lucky? I mean come on.
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

  8. #1087
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    Re: Naruto 692 Discussion / 693 Predictions | No Chapter Until ~25th

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    He can create a lot of clones, but not nearly as many as he can with the Kyuubi, that's the point. And, again, FRS is impossible for him to learn with the Kyuubi.
    He made 1000 of them without the Bijuu. That is already ridiculously huge number.

  9. #1088
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Delbi's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 692 Discussion / 693 Predictions | No Chapter Until ~25th

    Quote Originally Posted by Roman View Post
    Sure, but he effectively started using it in the war. Before that, it was mainly just an impulse which was uncontrollable (minus against Neji).

    Sure he did. He told him everything about Itachi. If it wasn't for him, he wouldn't found out and the immense grief wouldn't sprout it out.
    Naruto used it to summon Bunta, fight Sasuke at the VOTE, to train for FRS, to fight Kakazu, and to defeat Pain. Uncontrollable or not (he almost always controlled it, only times he didn't were against Deidara, Orochimaru and Pain).

    Now you are speculating. You have no idea how Sasuke would have changed if he didn't learn the truth. He could have still felt grief because he would have been empty with no purpose left. Loneliness could have given him a similar emotional charge, or the fact that he realized he did love his brother and regretted killing him. Hell, he could have awakened it in life or death situation after being hunted. We have no clue.

    ---------- Post added at 03:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:33 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Roman View Post
    He made 1000 of them without the Bijuu. That is already ridiculously huge number.
    And when he got the Biju he could keep making 1000's. The Kyuubi naturally affected his chakra before he accessed it, it gave him more for the start than he would have normally had. We know he would have had a lot, but we don't know how it would compare to what we know him to have.

    And again, FRS isn't possible without the Kyuubi.

    ---------- Post added at 03:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:34 PM ----------

    Bringing all this back, I'm curious to see how these two will fight, because it seems like Naruto is going to need an ass-pull to reasonably be able to defeat Sasuke without killing him and by also not allowing Sasuke to defeat him. I can't see Naruto killing Sasuke right here.
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

  10. #1089
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    Re: Naruto 692 Discussion / 693 Predictions | No Chapter Until ~25th

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    Naruto used it to summon Bunta, fight Sasuke at the VOTE, to train for FRS, to fight Kakazu, and to defeat Pain. Uncontrollable or not (he almost always controlled it, only times he didn't were against Deidara, Orochimaru and Pain).

    Now you are speculating. You have no idea how Sasuke would have changed if he didn't learn the truth. He could have still felt grief because he would have been empty with no purpose left. Loneliness could have given him a similar emotional charge, or the fact that he realized he did love his brother and regretted killing him. Hell, he could have awakened it in life or death situation after being hunted. We have no clue.
    Bunta, impulse. Okay, it seemed controllable against Sasuke. He didn't use it to train for FRS, Kurama's chakra only started leaking after he lost his own chakra because of training. The Kakuzu fight is a bit vague since only his pupil changed without the coloring.

    No, Uchihas gain immense power once they feel the grief of losing a loved one. That's why Itachi always said to kill a friend. When Sasuke found out the truth, he realized how much Itachi loved him because he already loved Itachi too much but repressed the feelings because he thought Itachi actually did the things he knew of. Regret and loneliness can't cause such grief. It is speculation but losing a loved one can't compare to your points.

    ---------- Post added at 09:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:37 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    And when he got the Biju he could keep making 1000's. The Kyuubi naturally affected his chakra before he accessed it, it gave him more for the start than he would have normally had. We know he would have had a lot, but we don't know how it would compare to what we know him to have.

    And again, FRS isn't possible without the Kyuubi.

    ---------- Post added at 03:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:34 PM ----------

    Bringing all this back, I'm curious to see how these two will fight, because it seems like Naruto is going to need an ass-pull to reasonably be able to defeat Sasuke without killing him and by also not allowing Sasuke to defeat him. I can't see Naruto killing Sasuke right here.
    Naruto can certainly make an FRS without Kyuubi. He did it multiple times against Pain and he destroyed Hashirama's Wood Dragon with it in SM.

    I disagree. I think Naruto has too much power.

  11. #1090
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Delbi's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 692 Discussion / 693 Predictions | No Chapter Until ~25th

    Quote Originally Posted by Roman View Post
    Bunta, impulse. Okay, it seemed controllable against Sasuke. He didn't use it to train for FRS, Kurama's chakra only started leaking after he lost his own chakra because of training. The Kakuzu fight is a bit vague since only his pupil changed without the coloring.
    You have to be shitting me. Please go back and read the manga. Tenzou was there for the sole of purpose of making sure the Kyuubi didn't get out because Naruto was using it's chakra to make clones and Rasengan's when he himself ran out of chakra. If Naruto ran out of chakra, how did he keep training? He kept training because he was able to use the Kyuubi chakra.

    During the Kakazu fight Naruto was again, spent of chakra so he needed to use the Kyuubi chakra because he had none left himself, that's why he collapsed as soon as the battle was over.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roman View Post
    No, Uchihas gain immense power once they feel the grief of losing a loved one. That's why Itachi always said to kill a friend. When Sasuke found out the truth, he realized how much Itachi loved him because he already loved Itachi too much but repressed the feelings because he thought Itachi actually did the things he knew of. Regret and loneliness can't cause such grief. It is speculation but losing a loved one can't compare to your points.
    You know nothing about grief if you don't think regret and loneliness can cause as much as losing a loved one, it's different for everyone. Tobirama's assessment was so bias and skewed it's hard to take it as fact, and even then it's the emotional response that causes the change in the Sharigan, not the event itself. Any life altering event or realization can cause such a response, again it's different for everyone. I have a hard time believing Shisui killed someone to gain MS. Itachi didn't kill anyone either. He told Sasuke to kill his best friend because he believed it to be the only thing powerful enough to give Sasuke such an emotional response and because he had survivors guilt and wanted Sasuke to be powerful enough to kill him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roman View Post
    Naruto can certainly make an FRS without Kyuubi. He did it multiple times against Pain and he destroyed Hashirama's Wood Dragon with it in SM.
    Never said he couldn't. I said he would have never learned it in the first place without the Kyuubi.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roman View Post
    I disagree. I think Naruto has too much power.
    All that power means nothing if he can't hit Sasuke because of his S/T jutsu, or is too busy dealing with genjutsu to land his own attacks.
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

  12. #1091
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    Re: Naruto 692 Discussion / 693 Predictions | No Chapter Until ~25th

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    He can create a lot of clones, but not nearly as many as he can with the Kyuubi, that's the point. And, again, FRS is impossible for him to learn with the Kyuubi.

    The Sharigan > Uzumaki heritage. What makes the Uzumaki bloodline awesome is that it can be combined with a Biju to create the best Jinchurikis. By itself however, it pales in comparison to the the Sharigan. Even Kushina's chakra chains are not comparable to the Sharigan. So while Naruto was gifted, Sasuke was more gifted, and also had the advantage of being naturally more intelligent.

    As far as being Transmigrants that has nothing to do with genetics, because Naruto isn't a Senju.

    Yes, Sasuke has needed luck from time to time, but do you honestly think Naruto hasn't been more lucky? I mean come on.
    Yes, with Kurama he can create more. However, the numbers he utilised during the training were within his own limits. Kurama allowed for him to push those limits further with the actual training for the clones, however, this alone wouldn't have stopped him from utilising the technique. At worst he might've taken an extra couple days. Kurama wasn't necessary for him to utilise the technique itself or for his understanding to create it. Kurama also wasn't a factor when he perfected it. And of course, this is just one technique in his arsenal.

    Why would we think that merely being an Uchiha made Sasuke genetically superior to Naruto? Like Sasuke, Naruto was a descendant of the Sage. And unlike Sasuke, he had truly exceptional parents. And the transmigrants are relevant to genetics, or heritage, as far as we know their reincarnations have been restricted to descendants.

    Yes, I do think Sasuke had needed luck and outside support just as frequently as Naruto, and I think if you stopped and went through Sasuke's history you'd realise it.
    Last edited by Impossibility; Yesterday at 03:07 PM.

  13. #1092
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    Re: Naruto 692 Discussion / 693 Predictions | No Chapter Until ~25th

    Quote Originally Posted by Impossibility View Post
    Yes, with Kurama he can create more. However, the numbers he utilised during the training were within his own limits. Kurama allowed for him to push those limits further with the actual training for the clones, however, this alone wouldn't have stopped him from utilising the technique. At worst he might've taken an extra couple days. Kurama wasn't necessary for him to utilise the technique itself or for his understanding to create it. Kurama also wasn't a factor when he perfected it. And of course, this is just one technique in his arsenal.

    Why would we think that merely being an Uchiha made Sasuke genetically superior to Naruto? Like Sasuke, Naruto was a descendant of the Sage. And unlike Sasuke, he had truly exceptional parents. And the transmigrants are relevant to genetics, or heritage, as far as we know their reincarnations have been restricted to descendants.

    Yes, I do think Sasuke had needed luck and outside support just as frequently as Naruto, and I think if you stopped and went through Sasuke's history you'd realise it.
    Naruto was accessing the Kyuubi far more than I think you realize, not to mention by having it he could recover faster. Simply put, without the Kyuubi he could not do what he did with FRS. The Kyuubi gave Naruto more chakra that he would have normally had. Again, we don't know how much, but it made a difference (one that is rather inconsistent in the manga between what we've seen and what we've been told).

    Sasuke was physically more gifted than Naruto, he was bigger, stronger and faster. Not to mention the advantages the Sharigan gave him over Naruto.

    And Sasuke didn't have exceptional parents? They were both Uchiha Jounin's. Was Kushina a Jounin? Nothing about her indicated she was a great shinobi. As far as Minato was concerned, Naruto didn't exactly inherit any of his good qualities (didn't get his reflexes or intelligence). As far as transmigration goes, we only know of two sets, so there isn't enough evidence to say one way or another. But the fact is Naruto isn't a Senju, he's an Uzumaki. They are cousins, but the genetic gap isn't as strong as it was for Sasuke, Madara or Hashirama.

    I've been through Sasuke's history, we can do this if you'd like. Naruto has always been more lucky, from farting in Kiba's face, to having Neji completely over estimate him (and fail to use his Kekkai Genkai to look at the ground), to having the Kyuubi bail him out multiple times, to having Tenzou save him vs. Kakazu, his father save him vs. Pain, his mother save him from the Kyuubi.

    Sasuke's luck stemmed from the fact Itachi didn't want to kill him and that Obtio saved him from the Kages. Not sure what else you want to chalk up to luck, seeing as how all his other advantages were planned, such as attacking Orochimaru when he was sick, to having comrades like Karin and Juugo who could heal him. Calling that lucky is like calling Naruto lucky for leaving clones behind while fighting Pain.
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

  14. #1093
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    Re: Naruto 692 Discussion / 693 Predictions | No Chapter Until ~25th

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    Naruto was accessing the Kyuubi far more than I think you realize, not to mention by having it he could recover faster. Simply put, without the Kyuubi he could not do what he did with FRS. The Kyuubi gave Naruto more chakra that he would have normally had. Again, we don't know how much, but it made a difference (one that is rather inconsistent in the manga between what we've seen and what we've been told).

    Sasuke was physically more gifted than Naruto, he was bigger, stronger and faster. Not to mention the advantages the Sharigan gave him over Naruto.

    And Sasuke didn't have exceptional parents? They were both Uchiha Jounin's. Was Kushina a Jounin? Nothing about her indicated she was a great shinobi. As far as Minato was concerned, Naruto didn't exactly inherit any of his good qualities (didn't get his reflexes or intelligence). As far as transmigration goes, we only know of two sets, so there isn't enough evidence to say one way or another. But the fact is Naruto isn't a Senju, he's an Uzumaki. They are cousins, but the genetic gap isn't as strong as it was for Sasuke, Madara or Hashirama.

    I've been through Sasuke's history, we can do this if you'd like. Naruto has always been more lucky, from farting in Kiba's face, to having Neji completely over estimate him (and fail to use his Kekkai Genkai to look at the ground), to having the Kyuubi bail him out multiple times, to having Tenzou save him vs. Kakazu, his father save him vs. Pain, his mother save him from the Kyuubi.

    Sasuke's luck stemmed from the fact Itachi didn't want to kill him and that Obtio saved him from the Kages. Not sure what else you want to chalk up to luck, seeing as how all his other advantages were planned, such as attacking Orochimaru when he was sick, to having comrades like Karin and Juugo who could heal him. Calling that lucky is like calling Naruto lucky for leaving clones behind while fighting Pain.
    I consider him to have access it as much as was shown, or suggested. The argument that he wouldn't be capable of utilising FRS without Kurama doesn't hold much water.

    Ok? So they were Jonin, at the level we're operating at I'm finding it difficult to imagine that that's meant to be particularly impressive. Kushina was a talented and gifted kunoichi with exceptional chakra even amongst her exceptional clan. And Minato was a Kage. And it isn't just two. Zetsu's statements about his machinations over the generations make it clear that the transmigrants occurred over and over within his descendants, almost exclusively in the Uchiha and the Senju.

    I'm not sure what the Neji example is meant to prove other than Neji was exhausted and thought he was defeated. And if we're going to include examples of his teammates helping him out, I'm going to be forced to mention the times Taka saved his life. I'm sure we could put an exhaustive list together for both of them accounting the times they've been saved by teammates. It's what they do. And the fact that we've even mentioned Taka speaks mountains about his supposed tendency to do things 'solo'. The only instance of luck listed is against Kiba. The advancement of his Sharingan at opportune times is always helpful, and I'm going to mention his CS necessity in multiple battles starting from the Forest of Death, if we're going to rehash Kurama, why not? Kakashi saved him from what was likely to be an unfortunate exchange against Naruto at the last moment. You've already mentioned Itachi's utter lack of interest in actually killing him. The entire sequence of his attack on the Kage Summit is a series of convenient happenings, luck, and someone popping out of nowhere to save him. Gaara's attitude when he attacked the Kages certainly helped him keep his life. Zetsu comes out of nowhere to save him against Mei. Obito comes out of nowhere to save him against Oonoki. They both drag him away from his old teammates later. Even in the war arc, Sasuke has needed support as much, if not more so, that Naruto. This idea that Sasuke has been going it alone much more than Naruto is kind of ridiculous, the only reason it might seem that way is because Sasuke's self-centred and ungrateful.

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    Re: Naruto 692 Discussion / 693 Predictions | No Chapter Until ~25th

    Well you just swooped in and said most of what I wanted to, but I can add to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Impossibility View Post
    I consider him to have access it as much as was shown, or suggested. The argument that he wouldn't be capable of utilising FRS without Kurama doesn't hold much water.
    Given what's been said about Naruto and what we know about his parents, he was bound to have a large pool even if he didn't have the Kyubi. Plus, the first instances of FRS were created with the power he gained from Senjutsu, not Kurama.

    Quote Originally Posted by Impossibility View Post
    Ok? So they were Jonin, at the level we're operating at I'm finding it difficult to imagine that that's meant to be particularly impressive. Kushina was a talented and gifted kunoichi with exceptional chakra even amongst her exceptional clan. And Minato was a Kage. And it isn't just two. Zetsu's statements about his machinations over the generations make it clear that the transmigrants occurred over and over within his descendants, almost exclusively in the Uchiha and the Senju.
    Kushina was a successful Jinchuriki, chosen to be a Jinchuriki specifically beacuse she had strong chakra, and taught Minato everything she knew about sealing, which includes the Dead Demon Consuming Seal which was straight up said to be an Uzumaki technique. And I would say, despite not having his father's reflexes and the obvious aspects of his intellect, he appears to be just as intuitive as Minato. We can also assume that he added to Naruto's chakra pool as well seeing as how Minato knew Senjutsu and a large amount of charka is needed to learn it. So going back to my first point, being the son of a Jinchuriki who already had a unique and strong chakra before becoming a Jinchuriki and a Senjutsu master, Naruto would have definitely still had a great amount of chakra without the Kyubi. And despite not being a direct decendent, he has what the Senju are mostly known for, which is a great life force and stamina. Not that it matters anyhow as he is the reincarnation of Asura who ancestor of the Senju.

    Quote Originally Posted by Impossibility View Post
    I'm not sure what the Neji example is meant to prove other than Neji was exhausted and thought he was defeated. And if we're going to include examples of his teammates helping him out, I'm going to be forced to mention the times Taka saved his life. I'm sure we could put an exhaustive list together for both of them accounting the times they've been saved by teammates. It's what they do. And the fact that we've even mentioned Taka speaks mountains about his supposed tendency to do things 'solo'. The only instance of luck listed is against Kiba. The advancement of his Sharingan at opportune times is always helpful, and I'm going to mention his CS necessity in multiple battles starting from the Forest of Death, if we're going to rehash Kurama, why not? Kakashi saved him from what was likely to be an unfortunate exchange against Naruto at the last moment. You've already mentioned Itachi's utter lack of interest in actually killing him. The entire sequence of his attack on the Kage Summit is a series of convenient happenings, luck, and someone popping out of nowhere to save him. Gaara's attitude when he attacked the Kages certainly helped him keep his life. Zetsu comes out of nowhere to save him against Mei. Obito comes out of nowhere to save him against Oonoki. They both drag him away from his old teammates later. Even in the war arc, Sasuke has needed support as much, if not more so, that Naruto. This idea that Sasuke has been going it alone much more than Naruto is kind of ridiculous, the only reason it might seem that way is because Sasuke's self-centred and ungrateful.
    There is also the fact that Sasuke was lucky that Haku had no intention of killing him. He was lucky that Orochimaru gave him the Cursed Seal, which bailed him out plenty of times pre and post timeskip. He was lucky to have been bailed out by Tsunade from his coma. He was lucky Naruto only wanted to scratch his headband instead of get a blow in. He's also very lucky that Konaha didn't just say screw Naruto's feelings and commence to sending Nin after Nin after him. He was lucky that Kakashi's dumb as dog couldn't stick with Karin's scent and lead Konoha to him. He was lucky Killer Bee underestimated him . He was lucky Danzo was holding back and decided not to use Shisui's eyes. I'm also curious as to why he says having the advantage of teammates counts as luck for Naruto but he doesn't count it as such for Sasuke.

    We must also consider the context of how they got to where they did.

    While Naruto gained the Kyubi at birth, he lost his parents, which was incredibly detrimental to his growth. Sasuke, however, had his family initially. It was because of them that he pushed himself so he could live up to his clan's name and get from out of Itachi's shadow. Ignoring all the emotional strain it caused, it did wonders for his basic ability as a shinobi as he was at the top of the class in school before the series. Naruto on the other hand, skimped on his studies and classes because he wanted get attention. That alone gave Sasuke a leg up on Naruto before the series even started. Things would have been much more different if Naruto had a family to start with.

    By the Valley of the End, the two were comparable in power, but Sasuke still had better technique than Naruto, which was elevated even more when he was trained by Kakashi. His fully evolved Sharingan allowed him to maximize his technique to the fullest where as Naruto would keep on charging forward into his counters. I'm pretty sure that if Naruto had the same formal Taijutsu training and knowledge, he wouldn't have been completely overwhelmed by Sasuke when he fully evolved his Sharingan and would have fought smart. We've seen that the Sharingan isn't the end all be all and skilled Shinobi can get by.
    Last edited by eefrit; Yesterday at 08:16 PM.

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    Re: Naruto 692 Discussion / 693 Predictions | No Chapter Until ~25th

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    You have to be shitting me. Please go back and read the manga. Tenzou was there for the sole of purpose of making sure the Kyuubi didn't get out because Naruto was using it's chakra to make clones and Rasengan's when he himself ran out of chakra. If Naruto ran out of chakra, how did he keep training? He kept training because he was able to use the Kyuubi chakra.

    During the Kakazu fight Naruto was again, spent of chakra so he needed to use the Kyuubi chakra because he had none left himself, that's why he collapsed as soon as the battle was over.


    You know nothing about grief if you don't think regret and loneliness can cause as much as losing a loved one, it's different for everyone. Tobirama's assessment was so bias and skewed it's hard to take it as fact, and even then it's the emotional response that causes the change in the Sharigan, not the event itself. Any life altering event or realization can cause such a response, again it's different for everyone. I have a hard time believing Shisui killed someone to gain MS. Itachi didn't kill anyone either. He told Sasuke to kill his best friend because he believed it to be the only thing powerful enough to give Sasuke such an emotional response and because he had survivors guilt and wanted Sasuke to be powerful enough to kill him.


    Never said he couldn't. I said he would have never learned it in the first place without the Kyuubi.



    All that power means nothing if he can't hit Sasuke because of his S/T jutsu, or is too busy dealing with genjutsu to land his own attacks.
    I did. There was no indication of Kurama's chakra during his training. Kurama's chakra started leaking out because he was exhausted and that's why Tenzou was there. The Kakuzu fight was a bit vague, like I said, because his pupils only changed without the coloring. It could be that it started mixing with his chakra but you have to remember that he executed FRS 3 times in total WITHOUT SM. Anyone would collapse from it. Not from chakra exhaustion, but the backfire of the attack.

    That's your point of view on Tobirama's assessment because you don't like it. But it's still a factual assessment. It's better to be lonely and not know the feeling of love than to know the feeling of love and suddenly lose it. So actually, you don't know anything about grief.

    He learned it without the Kyuubi. He made 1000 clones with his own chakra. His appearance didn't change in any way when he was training, until he was exhausted.

    According to Kaguya's fight, Naruto is faster than Sasuke. Genjutsu isn't an issue here. He has Bijuu inside him and his sensing abilities are of the charts. He technically fought an invisible Madara from Limbo, which means he wouldn't have to look at Sasuke's eyes. Not that Sasuke would ever resort to Genjutsu.

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