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I was just showing the similarity in the feats/situation they received.
Last edited by Impossibility; Yesterday at 02:21 PM.
Obito had nothing to do with Sasuke gaining MS (unless you are talking about him instigating the Uchiha massacre, in which case then Obito is also responsible for Naruto having the Kyuubi and gaining Sage Mode).
Sure he did. He told him everything about Itachi. If it wasn't for him, he wouldn't found out and the immense grief wouldn't sprout it out.
The Sharigan > Uzumaki heritage. What makes the Uzumaki bloodline awesome is that it can be combined with a Biju to create the best Jinchurikis. By itself however, it pales in comparison to the the Sharigan. Even Kushina's chakra chains are not comparable to the Sharigan. So while Naruto was gifted, Sasuke was more gifted, and also had the advantage of being naturally more intelligent.
As far as being Transmigrants that has nothing to do with genetics, because Naruto isn't a Senju.
Yes, Sasuke has needed luck from time to time, but do you honestly think Naruto hasn't been more lucky? I mean come on.
Now you are speculating. You have no idea how Sasuke would have changed if he didn't learn the truth. He could have still felt grief because he would have been empty with no purpose left. Loneliness could have given him a similar emotional charge, or the fact that he realized he did love his brother and regretted killing him. Hell, he could have awakened it in life or death situation after being hunted. We have no clue.
---------- Post added at 03:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:33 PM ----------
And again, FRS isn't possible without the Kyuubi.
---------- Post added at 03:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:34 PM ----------
Bringing all this back, I'm curious to see how these two will fight, because it seems like Naruto is going to need an ass-pull to reasonably be able to defeat Sasuke without killing him and by also not allowing Sasuke to defeat him. I can't see Naruto killing Sasuke right here.
No, Uchihas gain immense power once they feel the grief of losing a loved one. That's why Itachi always said to kill a friend. When Sasuke found out the truth, he realized how much Itachi loved him because he already loved Itachi too much but repressed the feelings because he thought Itachi actually did the things he knew of. Regret and loneliness can't cause such grief. It is speculation but losing a loved one can't compare to your points.
---------- Post added at 09:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:37 PM ----------
I disagree. I think Naruto has too much power.
During the Kakazu fight Naruto was again, spent of chakra so he needed to use the Kyuubi chakra because he had none left himself, that's why he collapsed as soon as the battle was over.
Why would we think that merely being an Uchiha made Sasuke genetically superior to Naruto? Like Sasuke, Naruto was a descendant of the Sage. And unlike Sasuke, he had truly exceptional parents. And the transmigrants are relevant to genetics, or heritage, as far as we know their reincarnations have been restricted to descendants.
Yes, I do think Sasuke had needed luck and outside support just as frequently as Naruto, and I think if you stopped and went through Sasuke's history you'd realise it.
Last edited by Impossibility; Yesterday at 03:07 PM.
Sasuke was physically more gifted than Naruto, he was bigger, stronger and faster. Not to mention the advantages the Sharigan gave him over Naruto.
And Sasuke didn't have exceptional parents? They were both Uchiha Jounin's. Was Kushina a Jounin? Nothing about her indicated she was a great shinobi. As far as Minato was concerned, Naruto didn't exactly inherit any of his good qualities (didn't get his reflexes or intelligence). As far as transmigration goes, we only know of two sets, so there isn't enough evidence to say one way or another. But the fact is Naruto isn't a Senju, he's an Uzumaki. They are cousins, but the genetic gap isn't as strong as it was for Sasuke, Madara or Hashirama.
I've been through Sasuke's history, we can do this if you'd like. Naruto has always been more lucky, from farting in Kiba's face, to having Neji completely over estimate him (and fail to use his Kekkai Genkai to look at the ground), to having the Kyuubi bail him out multiple times, to having Tenzou save him vs. Kakazu, his father save him vs. Pain, his mother save him from the Kyuubi.
Sasuke's luck stemmed from the fact Itachi didn't want to kill him and that Obtio saved him from the Kages. Not sure what else you want to chalk up to luck, seeing as how all his other advantages were planned, such as attacking Orochimaru when he was sick, to having comrades like Karin and Juugo who could heal him. Calling that lucky is like calling Naruto lucky for leaving clones behind while fighting Pain.
Ok? So they were Jonin, at the level we're operating at I'm finding it difficult to imagine that that's meant to be particularly impressive. Kushina was a talented and gifted kunoichi with exceptional chakra even amongst her exceptional clan. And Minato was a Kage. And it isn't just two. Zetsu's statements about his machinations over the generations make it clear that the transmigrants occurred over and over within his descendants, almost exclusively in the Uchiha and the Senju.
I'm not sure what the Neji example is meant to prove other than Neji was exhausted and thought he was defeated. And if we're going to include examples of his teammates helping him out, I'm going to be forced to mention the times Taka saved his life. I'm sure we could put an exhaustive list together for both of them accounting the times they've been saved by teammates. It's what they do. And the fact that we've even mentioned Taka speaks mountains about his supposed tendency to do things 'solo'. The only instance of luck listed is against Kiba. The advancement of his Sharingan at opportune times is always helpful, and I'm going to mention his CS necessity in multiple battles starting from the Forest of Death, if we're going to rehash Kurama, why not? Kakashi saved him from what was likely to be an unfortunate exchange against Naruto at the last moment. You've already mentioned Itachi's utter lack of interest in actually killing him. The entire sequence of his attack on the Kage Summit is a series of convenient happenings, luck, and someone popping out of nowhere to save him. Gaara's attitude when he attacked the Kages certainly helped him keep his life. Zetsu comes out of nowhere to save him against Mei. Obito comes out of nowhere to save him against Oonoki. They both drag him away from his old teammates later. Even in the war arc, Sasuke has needed support as much, if not more so, that Naruto. This idea that Sasuke has been going it alone much more than Naruto is kind of ridiculous, the only reason it might seem that way is because Sasuke's self-centred and ungrateful.
Well you just swooped in and said most of what I wanted to, but I can add to it.
We must also consider the context of how they got to where they did.
While Naruto gained the Kyubi at birth, he lost his parents, which was incredibly detrimental to his growth. Sasuke, however, had his family initially. It was because of them that he pushed himself so he could live up to his clan's name and get from out of Itachi's shadow. Ignoring all the emotional strain it caused, it did wonders for his basic ability as a shinobi as he was at the top of the class in school before the series. Naruto on the other hand, skimped on his studies and classes because he wanted get attention. That alone gave Sasuke a leg up on Naruto before the series even started. Things would have been much more different if Naruto had a family to start with.
By the Valley of the End, the two were comparable in power, but Sasuke still had better technique than Naruto, which was elevated even more when he was trained by Kakashi. His fully evolved Sharingan allowed him to maximize his technique to the fullest where as Naruto would keep on charging forward into his counters. I'm pretty sure that if Naruto had the same formal Taijutsu training and knowledge, he wouldn't have been completely overwhelmed by Sasuke when he fully evolved his Sharingan and would have fought smart. We've seen that the Sharingan isn't the end all be all and skilled Shinobi can get by.
Last edited by eefrit; Yesterday at 08:16 PM.
That's your point of view on Tobirama's assessment because you don't like it. But it's still a factual assessment. It's better to be lonely and not know the feeling of love than to know the feeling of love and suddenly lose it. So actually, you don't know anything about grief.
He learned it without the Kyuubi. He made 1000 clones with his own chakra. His appearance didn't change in any way when he was training, until he was exhausted.
According to Kaguya's fight, Naruto is faster than Sasuke. Genjutsu isn't an issue here. He has Bijuu inside him and his sensing abilities are of the charts. He technically fought an invisible Madara from Limbo, which means he wouldn't have to look at Sasuke's eyes. Not that Sasuke would ever resort to Genjutsu.