Not a member? Register now!
Announcements
Manga returns! Catch up with the details. Enjoy downloading, translating, and scanlating manga HERE legally!
Like us on Facebook, follow us on Twitter! Celebrate another year with MH and read our yearbook.
Manga News: Check out this week's new manga (7/21/14 - 7/27/14).
Forum News: Visit new sections for Nisekoi and Kingdom!
Translations: Gintama 504 by Bomber D Rufi
New Reply
Page 72 of 72 FirstFirst ... 22 62 70 71 72
Results 1,066 to 1,071 of 1071

Thread: Naruto Hangout Thread v.13 <3

  1. #1066
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity KiSwordsman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Country
    United States
    Age
    24
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,717
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.13 <3

    Quote Originally Posted by Impossibility View Post
    The result was the destruction of Konoha, including the temporary loss of Tsunade that lead to the rise of Danzo.
    I'm confused on this one. What led to Tsunade's temporary coma was the destruction of the village which was Nagato's doing, which led to the rise of Danzo.


    Quote Quote:
    It does. Otherwise Konan would get credit for Amegakure's coup, and that would be the end of this. Who did the work would seem to be pretty important. So Kakuzu 'might' have been involved, thusly the entirety of Kakuzu's accomplishments amounts to what he may have done off-panel to contribute in some way to the defeat of Yugito.
    Yes, I Know however, there is no way to determine the amount of work that each member contributed. All we know is she was defeated by Hidan's technique. But we know that they both got brought into the fight, and it wasn't a Roshi situation or three tails situation where Hidan complained about doing all the work, or Kakazu was seen sitting behind a destroyed section of the building while Hidan finished up.

    Quote Quote:
    You said such feats weren't what you were addressing, so I moved beyond them. Who knows how Kakuzu survived Hashirama, we know what Konan managed against Obito. I don't see why it would be suggested that his feat would simply be superior.
    Yet, her fight with Obito keeps being brought up. This isn't the battle thread, I'm not trying to use his fight against Hashirama to say that he has some type of amazing ability which allowed him to survive. The fact of the matter however, he did survive. Even if we don't know the content of the fight. Konan we do know the content however, we know she died. She died, he didn't. I don't remember saying that it was a superior feat on his part. I just know he was still alive by the end of it.


    Quote Quote:
    No, I couldn't. She was a part of their childhood, and she was supremely loyal to Nagato. The only time we saw her act independently was her battle against Tobi. However, can you name something Nagato did apart from Konan, they were always together that doesn't take away from what she did somehow. Can you show something Hidan did apart from Kakuzu or vice-versa. You're asking these questions of Konan, but I'm sure if you decided to apply them to some other members of Akatsuki you'd run into similar scenarios.

    Nagato fought and killed Jiraiya one the legendary three ninja. A battle that Konan was made to retreat from after being easily neutralized by said ninja. A battle that we actually saw Nagato take on the majority of the work, or all of it.

    I can name something that both Hidan and Kakazu did apart from each other. Like I said before, he fought Hashirama. The results of which led him to kill the higher-ups of his village steal their forbidden techniques and live as long as he did.

    Hidan was simply an insane individual who killed his neighbors after being frustrated that his hometown was being turned into a tourist site instead of a ninja village.

  2. #1067
    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Impossibility's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Wonderland 8
    Country
    Bahamas
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,546
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.13 <3

    Quote Originally Posted by KiSwordsman View Post
    I'm confused on this one. What led to Tsunade's temporary coma was the destruction of the village which was Nagato's doing, which led to the rise of Danzo.
    What are you confused about? You said I tried to pass of the invasion "as something of note", and then finished with "result of said invasion was." I assumed you wished for me to provide the result of said invasion. So, I did.

    Quote Quote:
    Yes, I Know however, there is no way to determine the amount of work that each member contributed. All we know is she was defeated by Hidan's technique. But we know that they both got brought into the fight, and it wasn't a Roshi situation or three tails situation where Hidan complained about doing all the work, or Kakazu was seen sitting behind a destroyed section of the building while Hidan finished up.
    So you're giving Kakuzu the benefit of the doubt when the manga didn't show anything. And yet Konan gets nothing. You can see why Kakuzu seems to be such a question when the actual accomplishment that you attribute to him is something that we haven't been shown he did much to contribute to, other than be there.

    Quote Quote:
    Yet, her fight with Obito keeps being brought up. This isn't the battle thread, I'm not trying to use his fight against Hashirama to say that he has some type of amazing ability which allowed him to survive. The fact of the matter however, he did survive. Even if we don't know the content of the fight. Konan we do know the content however, we know she died. She died, he didn't. I don't remember saying that it was a superior feat on his part. I just know he was still alive by the end of it.
    When you keep suggesting that that is some significant difference, I'm assuming there's a reason.

    Quote Quote:
    Nagato fought and killed Jiraiya one the legendary three ninja. A battle that Konan was made to retreat from after being easily neutralized by said ninja. A battle that we actually saw Nagato take on the majority of the work, or all of it.

    I can name something that both Hidan and Kakazu did apart from each other. Like I said before, he fought Hashirama. The results of which led him to kill the higher-ups of his village steal their forbidden techniques and live as long as he did.

    Hidan was simply an insane individual who killed his neighbors after being frustrated that his hometown was being turned into a tourist site instead of a ninja village.
    But she was there. And something we actually saw and has some relevance or bearing "that actually stuck" as you put it? It was your question, I'm just applying it to other members of Akatsuki equally. The answers so far seem to be Kakuzu failed in his assassination attempt of Hashirama, he killed some old folks and fled his village, and Hidan killed some random unknown people. I can't imagine that any of these would've been accepted as responses to the question you put forth; a failure and killing random people...that actually sounds a lot like what you set out in Konan's column.

  3. #1068
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity KiSwordsman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Country
    United States
    Age
    24
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,717
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.13 <3

    Quote Originally Posted by Impossibility View Post
    What are you confused about? You said I tried to pass of the invasion "as something of note", and then finished with "result of said invasion was." I assumed you wished for me to provide the result of said invasion. So, I did.
    I assumed you had an argument in her defense regarding that. That's where the confusion came from.

    Quote Quote:
    So you're giving Kakuzu the benefit of the doubt when the manga didn't show anything. And yet Konan gets nothing. You can see why Kakuzu seems to be such a question when the actual accomplishment that you attribute to him is something that we haven't been shown he did much to contribute to, other than be there.
    What would she get the benefit of the doubt for? If Nagato started a fight with Jiraiya and cut to the end of the fight with Jiraiya dead and her being there with him I'd give her the same credit. However, we actually know what she did. She started fighting, was neutralized and asked to leave by Nagato. We know that Kakazu got drawn into the fight with the host and cut to the end of the fight. If the narrative had given some sort of indication that it was like Deidara and the three tails or Kisame and Roshi he'd lose that credit.

    Quote Quote:
    When you keep suggesting that that is some significant difference, I'm assuming there's a reason.
    The difference as I've stated multiple times now, he survived she did not. This may simply be my interpretation but it seems as though you're phrasing it like I'm saying that he deserves more credit because Hashirama might have been a superior opponent. If that's the case, I'm not doing so. The main difference is Kakazu survival. Had Konan survived Obito I would not be so harsh. However not only did she not survive him all the effort she spend trying to defeat him didn't amount to anything

    Quote Quote:
    But she was there. And something we actually saw and has some relevance or bearing "that actually stuck" as you put it? It was your question, I'm just applying it to other members of Akatsuki equally. The answers so far seem to be Kakuzu failed in his assassination attempt of Hashirama, he killed some old folks and fled his village, and Hidan killed some random unknown people. I can't imagine that any of these would've been accepted as responses to the question you put forth; a failure and killing random people...that actually sounds a lot like what you set out in Konan's column

    You asked me to name something that they've done apart from each other. I did. The same cannot be said for Konan in any instance except for her fight with Obito, which I acknowledged. However, the fact that that fight resulted in her death coupled with the fact that her efforts during said fight were practically nullified is where my distaste for the character comes from.

    She was there, then we saw her leave on Nagato's command. That's something that we saw. Which would mean that it's not the same as the Kakazu situation. Just like I don't give Obito credit for capturing the three tails given the content of the situation. Obito was there but as stated by Deidara, he did all the work or most of it. And the question can be applied to the other members. Even Zetsu. It's something that they've done separate from their partners within the organization. All except for her, and as we agreed that's the problem.
    Last edited by KiSwordsman; July 29, 2014 at 08:09 PM.

  4. #1069
    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Impossibility's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Wonderland 8
    Country
    Bahamas
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,546
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.13 <3

    Quote Originally Posted by KiSwordsman View Post
    I assumed you had an argument in her defense regarding that. That's where the confusion came from.
    It was just the answer to a specific question.

    Quote Quote:
    What would she get the benefit of the doubt for? If Nagato started a fight with Jiraiya and cut to the end of the fight with Jiraiya dead and her being there with him I'd give her the same credit. However, we actually know what she did. She started fighting, was neutralized and asked to leave by Nagato. We know that Kakazu got drawn into the fight with the host and cut to the end of the fight. If the narrative had given some sort of indication that it was like Deidara and the three tails or Kisame and Roshi he'd lose that credit.
    Getting some credit for accomplishments that she was involved with alongside her partner. Because on the one hand you're pointing out that she's never done something apart from Nagato as a major factor in your claim that she's the only member not to have accomplished something, but the only actual 'accomplishment' you put forward for Kakuzu is one that he was involved with alongside his partner.

    Quote Quote:
    The difference as I've stated multiple times now, he survived she did not. This may simply be my interpretation but it seems as though you're phrasing it like I'm saying that he deserves more credit because Hashirama might have been a superior opponent. If that's the case, I'm not doing so. The main difference is Kakazu survival. Had Konan survived Obito I would not be so harsh. However not only did she not survive him all the effort she spend trying to defeat him didn't amount to anything
    And I'm trying to figure how that survival makes a difference when the only purpose of my original mention was feats, and Kakuzu's survival after his failure under unknown circumstances can't seriously be held up over Konan's actual battle.

    Quote Quote:
    You asked me to name something that they've done apart from each other. I did. The same cannot be said for Konan in any instance except for her fight with Obito, which I acknowledged. However, the fact that that fight resulted in her death coupled with the fact that her efforts during said fight were practically nullified is where my distaste for the character comes from.

    She was there, then we saw her leave on Nagato's command. That's something that we saw. Which would mean that it's not the same as the Kakazu situation. Just like I don't give Obito credit for capturing the three tails given the content of the situation. Obito was there but as stated by Deidara, he did all the work or most of it. And the question can be applied to the other members. Even Zetsu. It's something that they've done separate from their partners within the organization. All except for her, and as we agreed that's the problem.
    I was simply asking the same question of you, I didn't bother to write it out completely because I thought that would be clear. The fact that the result is the same for Konan and some of her peers speaks for itself. So Obito was there and his partner did most of the work or all of it and so he doesn't get credit, fine. Konan was there and her partner did most of the work and so she doesn't get credit, ok. Kakuzu was there and his partner did most of the work and so he gets credit....why? You're applying two different standards without any actual reasoning for that difference. That's the problem.

  5. #1070
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity KiSwordsman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Country
    United States
    Age
    24
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,717
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.13 <3

    Quote Originally Posted by Impossibility View Post
    Getting some credit for accomplishments that she was involved with alongside her partner. Because on the one hand you're pointing out that she's never done something apart from Nagato as a major factor in your claim that she's the only member not to have accomplished something, but the only actual 'accomplishment' you put forward for Kakuzu is one that he was involved with alongside his partner.
    Actually, as stated below, that was what I meant by history earlier. Which is why I asked the question. But you know what, okay. She gets credit for being vaguely involved in the rebellion from which we see no conflict. Remember, it started after Yahiko died. Before that, we only saw the efforts of the peaceful Akatsuki.

    The difference being we actually saw the conflict with the two tails. Even if Kakazu's involvement was vauge However, you are right.

    Quote Quote:
    And I'm trying to figure how that survival makes a difference when the only purpose of my original mention was feats, and Kakuzu's survival after his failure under unknown circumstances can't seriously be held up over Konan's actual battle.
    Okay, fair enough. I concede for this one. Because I have already agreed that her fight against Obito was impressive, however the fact that she died and nothing came of it diminished the feat in my eyes. However, you are correct.


    Quote Quote:
    I was simply asking the same question of you, I didn't bother to write it out completely because I thought that would be clear. The fact that the result is the same for Konan and some of her peers speaks for itself. So Obito was there and his partner did most of the work or all of it and so he doesn't get credit, fine. Konan was there and her partner did most of the work and so she doesn't get credit, ok. Kakuzu was there and his partner did most of the work and so he gets credit....why? You're applying two different standards without any actual reasoning for that difference. That's the problem.
    The difference for Deidara and Nagato are clear. Deidara claimed that he did all of the work, Nagato told Konan to leave the fight. What's the indication that Hidan did most of the work in the fight? The fact that she was defeated by his technique? That's the difference here. For instance, had Deidara not claimed to be doing the heavy lifting, I'd be giving Obito the same credit. Had Hidan complained to him about doing most of the work at the end of the fight, that would be one thing. However, that's not the case.

    I understand what you're trying to say, however, unlike the previous situations that I mentioned, the narrative gave no indication on who pulled more weight in the fight. It was clear with Deidara given what he said, it was clear with Nagato given the fact that we actually saw her leave. With the two tails host however, not so much. So, it's not the same.

    The mention of actions without a partner is what I meant by history. Admittedly once again, poor phrasing on my part. That's why I brought it up to clarify when you said that we know more about her history than other members even though it was through other people. Something that every one of the other members can claim.

  6. #1071
    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Impossibility's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Wonderland 8
    Country
    Bahamas
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,546
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.13 <3

    Quote Originally Posted by KiSwordsman View Post
    The difference for Deidara and Nagato are clear. Deidara claimed that he did all of the work, Nagato told Konan to leave the fight. What's the indication that Hidan did most of the work in the fight? The fact that she was defeated by his technique? That's the difference here. For instance, had Deidara not claimed to be doing the heavy lifting, I'd be giving Obito the same credit. Had Hidan complained to him about doing most of the work at the end of the fight, that would be one thing. However, that's not the case.

    I understand what you're trying to say, however, unlike the previous situations that I mentioned, the narrative gave no indication on who pulled more weight in the fight. It was clear with Deidara given what he said, it was clear with Nagato given the fact that we actually saw her leave. With the two tails host however, not so much. So, it's not the same.

    The mention of actions without a partner is what I meant by history. Admittedly once again, poor phrasing on my part. That's why I brought it up to clarify when you said that we know more about her history than other members even though it was through other people. Something that every one of the other members can claim.
    The narrative does give more weight to one of the two because it shows that it was Hidan's technique that brought Yugito down. The biggest problem I have with this is that for Kakuzu to have an 'accomplishment' you have to assume that he played a significant role in the capture of Yugito, and there isn't anything that the manga shows that actually points to that, which is why I've said you're giving him the benefit of the doubt, and considering that we've seen that they're more than willing to fight separately, it's a substantive amount of doubt when it comes to his potential contribution.

New Reply
Page 72 of 72 FirstFirst ... 22 62 70 71 72

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts