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Thread: Akatsuki has a terrible Hierarchy of Power if Kakashi could woop Obitos ass but not Itachi

  1. #16
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
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    Re: Akatsuki has a terrible Hierarchy of Power if Kakashi could woop Obitos ass but not Itachi

    Matches don't work the way everyone's implying. You can't say Ninja A beat Ninja B, and Ninja B beat Ninja C, therefore Ninja A can beat Ninja C. Things like matchups and weaknesses come into account.

    When Kakashi went against Itachi in their first match, Itachi only successfully connected with one attack, and that was while Kakashi was trying to protect two other people. (Itach was holding back ofcourse, but Kakashi was hindered more). Against Obito he removed the one thing that made Obito a real threat, therefore, he won. If he had the ability to completely negate Tsukuyomi (without great cost to himself) the way he did against Obito's Kamui, then you can expect the same thing to happen.

    Well, if Itachi didn't have Susanoo, lol.

    Also I know we all hate Obito, but don't downplay his strength. In a direct clash with either Nagato or Itachi he'd win 9 times out of 10.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member KingOfNight's Avatar
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    Re: Akatsuki has a terrible Hierarchy of Power if Kakashi could woop Obitos ass but not Itachi

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    Also I know we all hate Obito, but don't downplay his strength. In a direct clash with either Nagato or Itachi he'd win 9 times out of 10.
    That would've been convincing if he wasn't licking their feet to avoid pissing them off...

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  4. #18
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    Re: Akatsuki has a terrible Hierarchy of Power if Kakashi could woop Obitos ass but not Itachi

    I wonder how many times could Obito use Kamui if there wasn't for Hashirama's cells. Also, I still wonder if his eyesight is deteriorating or not. His MS isn't eternal. Maybe Hashi's cell's feat again. I doubt he'd win against Itachi though.

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
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    Re: Akatsuki has a terrible Hierarchy of Power if Kakashi could woop Obitos ass but not Itachi

    Quote Originally Posted by KingOfNight
    That would've been convincing if he wasn't licking their feet to avoid pissing them off...
    That's playing fast and loose with the actual translations. It's never implied anywhere that he was afraid of Nagato (you are aware that Nagato was a puppet, correct?), and only slightly implied that he was cautious about Itachi. The closer your subordinates get, the more of a threat they become if they ever go rogue. And he already knew Itachi was only on his side reluctantly, therefore he had absolutely no reason to trust him. He had to be cautious. And for some reason, people confuse "cautious" with "scared shitless."

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    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity REN KOUEN's Avatar
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    Re: Akatsuki has a terrible Hierarchy of Power if Kakashi could woop Obitos ass but not Itachi

    obito wasnt playing tag with kakashi inside the kamui deminsion like he did everyone else

    if itachi fought tobi he would destroy him

  8. #21
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Akatsuki has a terrible Hierarchy of Power if Kakashi could woop Obitos ass but not Itachi

    Quote Originally Posted by narutotheory View Post
    Obitos suppose to be the leader of Akatsuki...he spents all this years training...obtaining a new sharingan...mastering it...getting all the bijuu...getting a rinnegan...and then this dude gets his ass wooped by his friend...who uses the same moves on him from when he was little...and we got to see none of Obitos new powers...

    If Kakashi couldn't even touch Itachi how the hell can he stab Obito...wtf?
    Christ, this kinda topic again... I've said this many times before in other topics. Incoming copypasta. People see "strenght" so black and white in anime/manga. Character A beats character B. But character C gets stomped by character B. A lot of people then immediately assume that character A therefore would beat character C in a fight, even though they have never fought. Thus they say A is stronger than C, and rank them in this order:
    A as the strongest
    B
    C as the weakest

    This is very, very flawed black and white thinking, toying with absolutes. Match-ups and conditions matter. Taking above example, what if character C manages to beat A? Or what if character A and B fought 10 times during the same week? It would not be abnormal the see this as a result: A-6 vicories, B 4 victories. In fact, this would be more natural. Someone defeating another person does not mean he is stronger, more skillful, etc. by definition.
    And coming back to your post, you compare two cases that cannot possibly be compared since so many variables are different.

  9. #22
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member badluckartist's Avatar
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    Re: Akatsuki has a terrible Hierarchy of Power if Kakashi could woop Obitos ass but not Itachi

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Kakashi being able to beat Tobi but not Itachi does not mean Itachi would beat Tobi. It's all about power/matchup, and Itachi was too good and had Sharingan that allowed him to beat Kakashi and be on par with him. Kakashi has Kamui and apparently, plot that allows him to fight Tobi... although if it was one-on-one in real world, Kakashi would probably lose. Kamui is the only thing that gives Tobi advantage over Itachi, and Kakashi for the most part.
    I still stand by the "secret that Itachi didn't know" that saved him from Amaterasu was the very same that saved him from Konan: Izanagi. Izanagi would've let him win much any one-on-one fight, and it was actually a pretty cool mechanic for a villain to have- he had the typical Akatsuki immortality variant but instantly threw it away to copy somebody else's powers. Just what the manga needed, more sheistily-copied powers l: l

    The rinnegan is really just a huge handicap implanted directly into Tobi's head. He never wanted to win. His declaration of war was pathetic- his whole plan made no sense without Kabuto's otherwise unexpected intervention. He gave Naruto the key to interacting with the bijuu. He very used Paths abilities. He faltered all over the place the whole fight. All-in-all a massive disappointment.


    ---------- Post added at 04:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:35 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Smerten View Post
    This is very, very flawed black and white thinking, toying with absolutes. Match-ups and conditions matter. Taking above example, what if character C manages to beat A? Or what if character A and B fought 10 times during the same week? It would not be abnormal the see this as a result: A-6 vicories, B 4 victories. In fact, this would be more natural. Someone defeating another person does not mean he is stronger, more skillful, etc. by definition.
    And coming back to your post, you compare two cases that cannot possibly be compared since so many variables are different.
    Still, there are certain characters who have abilities that grant guaranteed, if not 99.9999999999999% chance of victory. Totsuka, Izanagi, Izanami, and Dead Demon Seal just to name a few. Those are characters that *can't* lose, if their will is in it. I wish we could've gotten a flashback with Itachi attempting to kill Tobi, but failing due to not understanding Izanagi at first. Between Izanagi and Kamui, Tobi was practically unkillable. Now he's just a chump with a cool eye, fighting the only guy who has the only eye in the whole world that can pose a threat to him.

    Seriously the fact that Tobi never took his eye back speaks volumes about how keenly he was motivated to die by Kakashi's hands. Too bad we never had any real foreshadowing of a relationship between the two before this fight.

  10. #23
    Reviewer 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member narutotheory's Avatar
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    Re: Akatsuki has a terrible Hierarchy of Power if Kakashi could woop Obitos ass but not Itachi

    Quote Originally Posted by badluckartist View Post
    I still stand by the "secret that Itachi didn't know" that saved him from Amaterasu was the very same that saved him from Konan: Izanagi. Izanagi would've let him win much any one-on-one fight, and it was actually a pretty cool mechanic for a villain to have- he had the typical Akatsuki immortality variant but instantly threw it away to copy somebody else's powers. Just what the manga needed, more sheistily-copied powers l: l

    The rinnegan is really just a huge handicap implanted directly into Tobi's head. He never wanted to win. His declaration of war was pathetic- his whole plan made no sense without Kabuto's otherwise unexpected intervention. He gave Naruto the key to interacting with the bijuu. He very used Paths abilities. He faltered all over the place the whole fight. All-in-all a massive disappointment.


    ---------- Post added at 04:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:35 PM ----------



    Still, there are certain characters who have abilities that grant guaranteed, if not 99.9999999999999% chance of victory. Totsuka, Izanagi, Izanami, and Dead Demon Seal just to name a few. Those are characters that *can't* lose, if their will is in it. I wish we could've gotten a flashback with Itachi attempting to kill Tobi, but failing due to not understanding Izanagi at first. Between Izanagi and Kamui, Tobi was practically unkillable. Now he's just a chump with a cool eye, fighting the only guy who has the only eye in the whole world that can pose a threat to him.

    Seriously the fact that Tobi never took his eye back speaks volumes about how keenly he was motivated to die by Kakashi's hands. Too bad we never had any real foreshadowing of a relationship between the two before this fight.
    Yeah it would of been cool if Tobi just plucked his his other eye out of Kakashi's socket so he had a full set of sharingan again...but no...Kishimoto doesn't use cool ideas anymore...just uses repetition and plot to drive things in the manga...

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    Re: Akatsuki has a terrible Hierarchy of Power if Kakashi could woop Obitos ass but not Itachi

    Quote Originally Posted by 3c View Post
    Obito is all about Kamui. Obviously Kakashi would do well when he has the "same" power, not to mention they fought in the Kamui dimension which renders Obito's only strong point useless. Kishi thus effectively fodderized Obito. The plot is strong with Kakashi. Case closed.
    Not even Kakashi's Kamui should defeat Obito. Obito was using it for a lot of time without any drawback, while for Kakashi, if it wasn't for the Kyuubi and plot, he would be already done for

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    Re: Akatsuki has a terrible Hierarchy of Power if Kakashi could woop Obitos ass but not Itachi

    "Akatsuki has a terrible Hierarchy of Power"
    Akatsuki is an organisation consisting of over 10 S classed missing nin members with different interests, character, techniques & approach to combat.

    "If Kakashi (Ninja A) could woop Obitos (Ninja B) ass but not Itachi (Ninja C)

    There is a fundamental issue with this statement. Like I said, "over 10 S classed missing nin members with different interests, character, techniques & approach to combat"

    A very important thing to note here pertaining to combat is that victory doesn't need to be determine by whom is superior in wits, strengths, power, agility, speed & etc. Timing & chance is the most essential element in victory.

    There are several famous examples of this thing about taking about. Is anyone aware of the term "guerrilla warfare tactics"? Party A might have the superior men & fire power in comparison to party B but because party B used the guerrilla warfare tactics party B reigns champion. An ambush is a silent tactical approach to disrupt the enemy though cheap in it's nature, it could prove very effective in combat.

    Different abilities, different interests, different characters, different approach to combat & different outcomes in combat.

    ---------- Post added at 11:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:51 PM ----------

    That aside, we should all realise by now that Kishi had screwed up the logic of his manga.

  13. #26
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member videogamer64's Avatar
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    Re: Akatsuki has a terrible Hierarchy of Power if Kakashi could woop Obitos ass but not Itachi

    Obito has always sucked at fighting. Why are people surprised?

  14. #27
    MangaHelper MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Rikudou King's Avatar
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    Re: Akatsuki has a terrible Hierarchy of Power if Kakashi could woop Obitos ass but not Itachi

    Quote Originally Posted by narutotheory View Post
    Obitos suppose to be the leader of Akatsuki...he spents all this years training...obtaining a new sharingan...mastering it...getting all the bijuu...getting a rinnegan...and then this dude gets his ass wooped by his friend...who uses the same moves on him from when he was little...and we got to see none of Obitos new powers...

    If Kakashi couldn't even touch Itachi how the hell can he stab Obito...wtf?
    Obito was never the leader. He was a pretender at best, and usurper at worst. Having Nagato do all the hard work and then coming in to take charge is not leadership, especially given what a mess everything became under his command.

    And Itachi's a genius whereas Obito's an idiot. It would be the same as arguing someone being able to beat Naruto (like say Edo Nagato) would be able to do the same with Minato. No matter how hax the latter are, it doesn't mean anything if they aren't smart like the formers to actually make use of said strengths.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member marshall313's Avatar
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    Re: Akatsuki has a terrible Hierarchy of Power if Kakashi could woop Obitos ass but not Itachi

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    Obito was never the leader. He was a pretender at best, and usurper at worst. Having Nagato do all the hard work and then coming in to take charge is not leadership, especially given what a mess everything became under his command.

    And Itachi's a genius whereas Obito's an idiot. It would be the same as arguing someone being able to beat Naruto (like say Edo Nagato) would be able to do the same with Minato. No matter how hax the latter are, it doesn't mean anything if they aren't smart like the formers to actually make use of said strengths.
    Obito was never the leader and yet he let nagato do all the hard work? Is that the same as being the leader? He's the boss and he command the entire dirty work of the akatsuki.

    Even itachi knew that obito aka madara was the one who controlled the akatsuki in the shadow.

    Obito may be an idiot, but for Pete's sake, your genius itachi can't even hurt the idiot obito.

  16. #29
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    Re: Akatsuki has a terrible Hierarchy of Power if Kakashi could woop Obitos ass but not Itachi

    Nagato didn't do all he did because of Obito, he did it all because he had his own plans for the Bijuus. All Obito did was take the spoils after Nagato had been killed.

    Couldn't hurt? Obito made it quite clear that Itachi could have easily killed him, and was scared enough that he wouldn't even move against Konoha or Sasuke til after Itachi had died.

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  18. #30
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member KingOfNight's Avatar
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    Re: Akatsuki has a terrible Hierarchy of Power if Kakashi could woop Obitos ass but not Itachi

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    That's playing fast and loose with the actual translations. It's never implied anywhere that he was afraid of Nagato (you are aware that Nagato was a puppet, correct?), and only slightly implied that he was cautious about Itachi. The closer your subordinates get, the more of a threat they become if they ever go rogue. And he already knew Itachi was only on his side reluctantly, therefore he had absolutely no reason to trust him. He had to be cautious. And for some reason, people confuse "cautious" with "scared shitless."
    You're not necessarily stronger than your puppet. Orochimaru's current "Puppets" can whoop his ass anytime if they were free. There's a difference between being cautions and boot licking. Itachi's case is closed, considering Obito admitted his inferiority to Itachi.

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