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Thread: Akatsuki has a terrible Hierarchy of Power if Kakashi could woop Obitos ass but not Itachi

  1. #76
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member chilibun's Avatar
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    Re: Akatsuki has a terrible Hierarchy of Power if Kakashi could woop Obitos ass but not Itachi

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    Then again, Itachi already knew of Izanagi's existence, so that shouldn't be it either. Regardless, this ONE instance is the only one in the manga where Itachi is genuine threat to Obito.
    That's not entirely true. The Amaterasu trap was just a "best he could do" fail safe. Nothing suggests that Itachi planned it with or without Izanagi in mind. Obito just assumed w/e saved him, whether it was Izanagi or not, was a secret.

  2. #77
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
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    Re: Akatsuki has a terrible Hierarchy of Power if Kakashi could woop Obitos ass but not Itachi

    Nothing suggests it, but we do know that he knew the technique existed, whether he knew Obito could use it or not.

  3. #78
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member chilibun's Avatar
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    Re: Akatsuki has a terrible Hierarchy of Power if Kakashi could woop Obitos ass but not Itachi

    I know. I'm just saying that the Amaterasu trap doesn't really imply anything regarding Itachi's knowledge of Obito's abilities because it was, for all we know, the only thing he can do. It isn't like Itachi can implant an anti-Izanagi, anit-kamui, or anti-w/e trap. It was Amaterasu trap or do nothing.

    PS: I am also on the side that it was Izanagi because of how unscathed Obito was. He should at least have some burned up clothes or what not if it was Kamui.
    Last edited by chilibun; July 02, 2013 at 08:00 PM.

  4. #79
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Akatsuki has a terrible Hierarchy of Power if Kakashi could woop Obitos ass but not Itachi

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    Actually, this wasn't a response to you, but the one above my post.
    Regardless, you're not the only one who has said/asked this.

    Quote Quote:
    We were shown it, thereby establishing it. The Kages could have been weakened far better by someone like Pain or Kisame, Obito allowed the Hachibi not to be capture later on, and nothing ever came with the syncing despite Obito deciding to complete his plan on the second day of the war. Not sure why Jiraiya's death would matter, considering he was fully willing to fight Minato. Not to mention that Jiraiya was hardly ever in the village. It's not about failing, since as mentioned, Obito didn't even grab the Hachibi when he had another chance.
    How do you know? Kisame was basically owned once Gai went more all out. With Raikage's speed and strength, along with Gaara's sand, Kisame would have likely done lot worse. And Pain was dead at the time. If Pain didn't die, I highly doubt Tobi would have had the Summit attacked. Because Sasuke failed though, Tobi was able to get valuable intel thanks to Kisame sneaking in Samehada. Sasuke's failure turned out to be a boon for Tobi. That was Tobi's own fault, he changed his plans.

    Jiraiya was in the village and could have seriously challenged Pain and possibly Tobi. Would Pain have done as well as he did if Jiraiya was there?

  5. #80
    MangaHelper MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Rikudou King's Avatar
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    Re: Akatsuki has a terrible Hierarchy of Power if Kakashi could woop Obitos ass but not Itachi

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    How do you know? Kisame was basically owned once Gai went more all out. With Raikage's speed and strength, along with Gaara's sand, Kisame would have likely done lot worse. And Pain was dead at the time. If Pain didn't die, I highly doubt Tobi would have had the Summit attacked. Because Sasuke failed though, Tobi was able to get valuable intel thanks to Kisame sneaking in Samehada. Sasuke's failure turned out to be a boon for Tobi. That was Tobi's own fault, he changed his plans.

    Jiraiya was in the village and could have seriously challenged Pain and possibly Tobi. Would Pain have done as well as he did if Jiraiya was there?
    That was a Kisame without Samehada, and even then he tanked Gai's one-shot without dying. Ee's attacks are pretty much the same as Kirabi's, and we know Kisame can manage against him, while Gaara and the others attacks would have been moot against his absorption ability. Kisame should have been capable of doing far better then Sasuke did thanks to that alone. Why wouldn't Obito have attacked had Pain not died? It's not as if he struck at the summit in response to Pain's death. It much have been preplanned already, especially if he had already prepared his army of Zetsu clones. Can't really say Kisame got him valuable intel given what we saw of it.

    Jiraiya was only in the village a short time on various occasions. Odds are more likely that they wouldn't have encountered Jiraiya on any specific day.

  6. #81
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Akatsuki has a terrible Hierarchy of Power if Kakashi could woop Obitos ass but not Itachi

    Gai was told to go easy on Kisame because they needed intel, and Kisame's likely one of the toughest. However, can he take Raikage's speedblitz punch, which is a physical blunt attack? Kisame can't absorb chakra unless it's in him though, right? The guy got his needles in Kisame and was sending chakra when Kisame absorbed it. Without a great defense, I doubt Kisame would have done better.

    Apparently because Tobi threw caution to the wind after Nagato's death. I linked to the page somewhere in this thread where Tobi said he's unleashing the Moon's Eye plan. Not sure if it was planned or not, as Pain seemed to have destroyed Konoha out of anger, not necessarily because it was part of the plan.

    Yeah, that's because we're an audience. From Tobi's point of view the intel was pretty valuable as Tobi thought his plan would work in luring Naruto out. To us it didn't look like it worked but to him, it did.

    Jiraiya seems to have been in the village more often though. They'd have probably encountered Jiraiya eventually. I still find it hard to believe Itachi could win against Tobi's ability...

  7. #82
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    Re: Akatsuki has a terrible Hierarchy of Power if Kakashi could woop Obitos ass but not Itachi

    youre underrating Kakashi heavily man. He was already top caliber in part 1. in part 2 he ascended to the level of Kage (not elected, i mean in terms of power category and leadership ability also with the understandings of the village). He held his own against 2 Pains, Kakuzu and Hidan..plus the plethora of fights that earned him his nickname. His skills and presence from this portion of arc alone show that he is one of the top 7 shinobi easily.

  8. #83
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Rikudou Sennin's Avatar
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    Re: Akatsuki has a terrible Hierarchy of Power if Kakashi could woop Obitos ass but not Itachi

    If you ask me the reason Itachi couldnt beat Tobi was Tobi made sure to keep his secrets. Didnt Tobi say so himself after Sasukes Sharingan auto-activiates to grill him with amaterasu?!

    http://www.mangareader.net/93-402-12...apter-397.html

  9. #84
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: Akatsuki has a terrible Hierarchy of Power if Kakashi could woop Obitos ass but not Itachi

    Quote Originally Posted by chilibun View Post
    I know. I'm just saying that the Amaterasu trap doesn't really imply anything regarding Itachi's knowledge of Obito's abilities because it was, for all we know, the only thing he can do. It isn't like Itachi can implant an anti-Izanagi, anit-kamui, or anti-w/e trap. It was Amaterasu trap or do nothing.

    PS: I am also on the side that it was Izanagi because of how unscathed Obito was. He should at least have some burned up clothes or what not if it was Kamui.
    Actualy it can't be Izanagi as that ability does NOT remove the damage done before its activation... He was clearly hit, burned for some time and THEN he activated something. If he activated Izanagi before he was hit OR just as he was hit the mask he dropped on the floor should be reseted to his face when he had to undo the damage but IT WAS LEFT ON THE FLOOR.

    Also Tobi stating its a secret that Itachi did not know about its clear confirmation its NOT Izanagi as there is no way Tobi believed Itachi did NOT know about the jutsu after he KNEW Itachi caliber and the fact that he read those secrets tablets.

    PS. I have no bloody clue what it was. Only stating its not Izanagi as it makes no sense for it to be.

  10. #85
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member chilibun's Avatar
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    Re: Akatsuki has a terrible Hierarchy of Power if Kakashi could woop Obitos ass but not Itachi

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    Actualy it can't be Izanagi as that ability does NOT remove the damage done before its activation... He was clearly hit, burned for some time and THEN he activated something. If he activated Izanagi before he was hit OR just as he was hit the mask he dropped on the floor should be reseted to his face when he had to undo the damage but IT WAS LEFT ON THE FLOOR.

    Also Tobi stating its a secret that Itachi did not know about its clear confirmation its NOT Izanagi as there is no way Tobi believed Itachi did NOT know about the jutsu after he KNEW Itachi caliber and the fact that he read those secrets tablets.

    PS. I have no bloody clue what it was. Only stating its not Izanagi as it makes no sense for it to be.
    Except we don't know exactly when it was activated. If Izanagi was activated immediately after seeing Sasuke's eye transform and bleed, then it would have changed the him and the Amaterasu into an illusion, returning him back to perfect form. You have a point about the mask, but it won't be the first time Kishi is inconsistent with his writing. Danzou also had Izanagi active when he placed his seal on Sasuke and had his arm chopped off, but the seal still remained. Given how much liberty Kishi takes with changing jutsus to fit his plot, who really knows If we had to speculate one jutsu that we know Obito has and fits that event though, it was most likely Izanagi.

    I don't think the tablets had any secret jutsus in them. Wasn't it just writings regarding Rikudou's legacy? Beside, Tobi is a moron. It doesn't matter what he thinks Itachi knows and don't know. Not to mention, planting an Amaterasu on Sasuke doesn't imply whether Itachi knows about Izanagi or not. It's just a last ditch effort. If it succeeds, it succeeds, and if it fails, it fails. It wasn't like he could have done any more either way. So the whole thing is pretty ambiguous. You can make solid arguments for either side.
    Last edited by chilibun; July 03, 2013 at 03:58 PM.

  11. #86
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: Akatsuki has a terrible Hierarchy of Power if Kakashi could woop Obitos ass but not Itachi

    Quote Originally Posted by chilibun View Post
    Except we don't know exactly when it was activated. If Izanagi was activated immediately after seeing Sasuke's eye transform and bleed, then it would have changed the him and the Amaterasu into an illusion, returning him back to perfect form.
    Then you did not read my post correctly as I addressed this. Assuming what you said would be correct when he reversed time his mask would NOT be left on the floor and it would reset back to its original position on his face.

  12. #87
    MangaHelper MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Rikudou King's Avatar
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    Re: Akatsuki has a terrible Hierarchy of Power if Kakashi could woop Obitos ass but not Itachi

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Gai was told to go easy on Kisame because they needed intel, and Kisame's likely one of the toughest. However, can he take Raikage's speedblitz punch, which is a physical blunt attack? Kisame can't absorb chakra unless it's in him though, right? The guy got his needles in Kisame and was sending chakra when Kisame absorbed it. Without a great defense, I doubt Kisame would have done better.
    Don't recall Gai being told to go easy, though Aoba does mention getting intel. And Gai did use one of his deadliness/one-hit techniques. If Juugo can tank it and survive, I don't see why Kisame couldn't, especially when he can absorb the chakra from it to heal himself. Kisame absorbs chakra by touch, given that he absorbed chakra from Kirabi by forcefully grabbing onto Samehada. And in worst case, he could have created his water sphere and drowned most of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Apparently because Tobi threw caution to the wind after Nagato's death. I linked to the page somewhere in this thread where Tobi said he's unleashing the Moon's Eye plan. Not sure if it was planned or not, as Pain seemed to have destroyed Konoha out of anger, not necessarily because it was part of the plan.
    Ah, you mean when Obito decided it was time to stop hiding in the shadows. I meant teh attack on the summit must have been preplanned, though Zetsu does mention that Obito had accounted for the possibility of Nagato's death.

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Yeah, that's because we're an audience. From Tobi's point of view the intel was pretty valuable as Tobi thought his plan would work in luring Naruto out. To us it didn't look like it worked but to him, it did.
    Even from an in-story perspective, knowing that they were on the Island Turtle or that Naruto was training wasn't all that useful. The whole sensing hatred thing would have been admittedly valuable, had Obito pretty much not already expected Naruto to have it in order to lure him out.

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Jiraiya seems to have been in the village more often though. They'd have probably encountered Jiraiya eventually. I still find it hard to believe Itachi could win against Tobi's ability...
    Jiraiya was in the village at that point because he had come back from training with Naruto. as far as we've seen, Jiraiya only spends a couple of days in the village inbetween his wandering. And for Itachi to win, he would simply have to figure it out and be fast enough to strike as Obito tried to touch him, both things we know Itachi should be capable of.

  13. #88
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member chilibun's Avatar
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    Re: Akatsuki has a terrible Hierarchy of Power if Kakashi could woop Obitos ass but not Itachi

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    Then you did not read my post correctly as I addressed this. Assuming what you said would be correct when he reversed time his mask would NOT be left on the floor and it would reset back to its original position on his face.
    And if you continued reading, I addressed that point too. Kishi takes a lot of liberties in how his jutsus work. It won't be the first time something is inconsistent. Plus we don't even know how Izanagi works down to its fullest detail, like what exactly is changed, can be changed, how things are changed, etc. We just see things go poof because its convenient, while other times it doesn't. I hardly think Kishi thinks these things through down to its finest details when he writes it. We see Danzou perfrom a sealing jutsu during Izanagi that stayed "real" afterwards. The mask falling is hardly concrete evidence of anything. You know it and I know it. Kishi will just wing it as he sees fit.

  14. #89
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member shahdan's Avatar
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    Re: Akatsuki has a terrible Hierarchy of Power if Kakashi could woop Obitos ass but not Itachi

    I would take the liberty and outright say that Kakashi's victory was pure plot rubbish. Obito does have more advantages over Kakashi. He never used Mokuton, his more powerful Katon attacks, along with superior Kusari-gama - the hook and sickle combo - techniques. Even his superior reflexes seemed useless here. Or, his performance could just be poor because of Madara taking hold of his Black Zetsu or will? I call it BS.

  15. #90
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Akatsuki has a terrible Hierarchy of Power if Kakashi could woop Obitos ass but not Itachi

    Tobi is Obito. Obito is a dumbass, thus Tobi is a dumbass. As result, Tobi lost to Kakashi, especially without his advantage.

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