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Thread: Bleach 545 Discussion

  1. #256
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 545 Discussion / 546 Predictions

    What was at risk from the imbalance of souls intentionally made by the quincy was not the system though. The balance of souls does not sustain the political structure of SS or pays for the salaries of its politicians, the balance of souls prevents dimensions from leaking into the other. Presumably an entire dimension just spilling into the other is a bad scenario as the actual comparison which has been made so far is that such a thing would bring about the actual end of the world. In that regard as far as we know mayruri's actions did result in the ruthless murder of 28000 innocent men, women and children however the extreme scenario presented in the manga was that the alternative was to let everyone else die. So the choice mayuri had to make was to either sacrifice 28000 people and save everyone or just let the worlds spill into the other and see how many survive (if anyone). The manga has not elaborated on what exactly would happen if the worlds were spilled into the other but if at least 1 person was saved thanks to the choice mayuri made then it was worth it.

    ---------- Post added at 03:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:21 PM ----------

    And that said, the manga has rarely actually shown SS as evil. The only time where SS seemed evil was when rukia was about to be executed however that in itself was brought about by aizen and aizen alone as he actually killed the chamber 46 god knows when. The anime did show yamamoto as an evil old fashion asshole but that is only the anime, it is not cannon. remember the little speech juhabach gave yamamoto after he killed him? It was ultimately about how yamamoto and the gotei 13 were not as evil and ultimately did not have the capacity to not give a shit as in the past while current vandenreich emulates the old gotei 13 and their capacity to not give a damn.

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  3. #257
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member im over hyped's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 545 Discussion / 546 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Schabrak View Post
    Let billions of people die to build up from virtually "nothing and chaos"? Now it's you who would risk and likely kill all live in the dimensions to create your ideal world? What a very beautiful double standard.
    you are the one who asked me what i would do. i told you what i would do. destroy a system that cant be fixed. is the lost of life bad? yes, but humanities entire history is killing for the shake of something. if you want to get rid of that system, it has a cost. what double standard? we dont even know what happens in a bleach dimension collapse. create my own ideal world? no, one person shouldn't by in control of billions of lives.
    I used to be a great female character, but then i took a sword to the chest twice by a imbecile .

  4. #258
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Schabrak's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 545 Discussion / 546 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by im over hyped View Post
    you are the one who asked me what i would do. i told you what i would do. destroy a system that cant be fixed. is the lost of life bad? yes, but humanities entire history is killing for the shake of something. if you want to get rid of that system, it has a cost. what double standard? we dont even know what happens in a bleach dimension collapse. create my own ideal world? no, one person shouldn't by in control of billions of lives.
    Hm we don't really know, but we can assume and use facts provided. You did not. You would willingly let every living being die for the sake of changing a system that worked for millenia. You even say it can't be fixed, but have no conclusive evidence/panel to support that claim, none whatsoever. You say Kenpachi was evil, but all he did was fight with other swordsman who thought they were superior, everybody did fight, it was not morally wrong in those situations where he did fight. What made him a bad person? That he wanted to have a good fight? Or should the G13 just use all those "criminals" for fending off Quincy only to backstab them right back and kill all those "evil" people? Bah, I don't even want to discuss this any further with someone having such ugly thoughts. I'm out.

    Which double standart? The one were you claim that killing one person for another can't be justified, but let everyone die for the sake of a rather moribund experiment. Another shining gem right up there. "Since humanity has a history of wars, letting everybody die should be no problem" or is there another meaning behind those words up there? PS: Any dead person is one dead person too much. One person for the sake of two others is just as not accaptable, but it wasn't our choice nor jurisdiction, we haven't lived for centuries, we have nowhere near enough as much knowledge about the dimensions as those characters taking those decision did.

    edit: Impulsive reaction, sorry.
    Last edited by Hakuteiken; July 17, 2013 at 06:03 AM.
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  5. #259
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Quantized's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 545 Discussion / 546 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by im over hyped View Post
    an apocalypse doesn't mean everything and everyone will die or be destroyed in the bleach universe/ real life. i doubt the soul king will die, or any other dimension will collapse if another dimension is destroyed [SS]. it may cause problems for other but not destroy[unless kubo writes it that way]. how is it not like an economy? both the soul cycle and economy are ran by a system. when managed poorly bad things happen. when one part of the system starts to go bad, the others will/may start having problems. people will try to fix said problem with souls/money, but it doesn't shove the problem. its only a patch and temporary fix. so, if things are going to become better come up with a way to control the system without the need for money/souls. the soul king and SS needs stuff to keep their jobs [chaos].
    It's an interesting parallel
    In fact, I think it's a brillaint observation, whether it's going to turn out true or not, it still is an interesting observation.
    Will have to reflect further on that later, while I don't think it's a "littereal" parallel, it certainly have some things that seems interestingly similar.

    Quote Originally Posted by Schabrak View Post
    Let billions of people die to build up from virtually "nothing and chaos"? Now it's you who would risk and likely kill all live in the dimensions to create your ideal world? What a very beautiful double standard.

    Quantized
    What do you imagine will happen when two different dimensions collapse into each other? Do you believe it will simply fill out the real world with SS? That would be an idiotic idea considering how the shinigami's soul purpose is to keep the balance intact. If there weren't any hard consequences their whole purpose for the last millenia had been a lie.

    Spoiler: Balancers show


    Kubo made a point of repeatedly pointing out a change within the G13 since the SS arc, that was all for nothing? Come on please.
    Why are everyone so hostile today? Is there a full moon or something? (Wouldn't know, it's clouded in my skies )
    Joke a side, the whole problem with this, and in particular with the manga page you linked, is that it suggest that Soul Society was naturally created alongside the real world, and all other dimensions, such as HM are not important to the balance. But if so, why is HM there? Heck we know by fact that there is a Hell dimension as well.

    To me it seems more like it all was created, intelligent design if you will, cause it's messy. I'm not hinting towards a "God" in Bleach, but something isn't quite right here. It doesn't add up.
    I could accept if there was a spirit world and a living world being in parellel, but what about all the other dimensions? It doesn't add up, it seems awkward.

    I'm not saying it can't be so, I'm saying we shouldn't just accept that explanation, and keep trying to find a better one.
    Anaxagoras, who lived in Athens, Greece, around 450 BC suggested as the first (In History) that our sun was in fact, a round ball of flames, and that all other stars were the same, but too far away to be felt.
    Yet no one believed the guy, until many hundres of years later.
    What I'm trying to say, don't ever stop seeking truth, and keep questioning, don't just settle with was seems convenient.

    That's what we should do here, keep asking questions, keep reflecting about each others ideas, heck the more crazy ideas we explorer, the more we might actually eventually get closer to the truth.

    As such, imaginating the 2 worlds collapsing into each others is a piece in the big puzzle, it might not be a right piece for that puzzle, but it's still important to consider it, like every other scenario's.
    The two worlds collapsing making souls living in the same dimension is not even a theory I would bet money on, yet I still found it interesting, that doesn't mean I would support the theory.

    Can't we just for a moment stop pointing fingers at each others, and actually sit down and consider the different possibilities? Being open minded, as it is.

    Edit: Missed a few words.
    Last edited by Quantized; July 16, 2013 at 03:53 PM.

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  7. #260
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member im over hyped's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 545 Discussion / 546 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Schabrak View Post
    Hm we don't really know, but we can assume and use facts provided. You did not. You would willingly let every living being die for the sake of changing a system that worked for millenia. You even say it can't be fixed, but have no conclusive evidence/panel to support that claim, none whatsoever. You say Kenpachi was evil, but all he did was fight with other swordsman who thought they were superior, everybody did fight, it was not morally wrong in those situations where he did fight. What made him a bad person? That he wanted to have a good fight? Or should the G13 just use all those "criminals" for fending off Quincy only to backstab them right back and kill all those "evil" people? Bah, I don't even want to discuss this any further with someone having such ugly thoughts. I'm out.

    Which double standart? The one were you claim that killing one person for another can't be justified, but let everyone die for the sake of a rather moribund experiment. Another shining gem right up there. "Since humanity has a history of wars, letting everybody die should be no problem" or is there another meaning behind those words up there? I will say fuck you, if that's really your opinion. A mod may contact me if that's to much of an reply to such repulsive idiocy. PS: Any dead person is one dead person too much. One person for the sake of two others is just as not accaptable, but it wasn't our choice and jurisdiction, we haven't lived for centuries, we have nowhere near enough as much knowledge about the dimensions as those characters taking those decision did.
    how can we use facts/panals when we don't what will happen. we can only guess and speculate what will happen. what about ken? theres no such thing as evil, hes just a mindless blood thirsty dbag. there is no good or bad side in war. what ugly thoughts? obviously killing people is wrong for what ever reason. people will always justify killing one way or the other. i don't know why you are so mad.
    I used to be a great female character, but then i took a sword to the chest twice by a imbecile .

  8. #261
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 545 Discussion / 546 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Quantized View Post
    It's an interesting parallel
    In fact, I think it's a brillaint observation, whether it's going to turn out true or not, it still is an interesting observation.
    Will have to reflect further on that later, while I don't think it's a "littereal" parallel, it certainly have some things that seems interestingly similar.



    Why are everyone so hostile today? Is there a full moon or something? (Wouldn't know, it's clouded in my skies )
    Joke a side, the whole problem with this, and in particular with the manga page you linked, is that it suggest that Soul Society was naturally created alongside the real world, and all other dimensions, such as HM are not important to the balance. But if so, why is HM there? Heck we know by fact that there is a Hell dimension as well.

    To me it seems more like it all was created, intelligent design if you will, cause it's messy. I'm not hinting towards a "God" in Bleach, but something isn't quite right here. It doesn't add up.
    I could accept if there was a spirit world and a living world being in parellel, but what about all the other dimensions? It doesn't add up, it seems awkward.

    I'm not saying it can't be so, I'm saying we shouldn't just accept that explanation, and keep trying to find a better one.
    Anaxagoras, who lived in Athens, Greece, around 450 BC suggested as the first (In History) that our sun was in fact, a round ball of flames, and that all other stars were the same, but too far away to be felt.
    Yet no one believed the guy, until many hundres of years later.
    What I'm trying to say, don't ever stop seeking truth, and keep questioning, don't just settle with was seems convenient.

    That's what we should do here, keep asking questions, keep reflecting about each others ideas, heck the more crazy ideas we explorer, the more we might actually eventually get closer to the truth.

    As such, imaginating the 2 worlds collapsing into each others is a piece in the big puzzle, it might not be a right piece for that puzzle, but it's still important to consider it, like every other scenario's.
    The two worlds collapsing making souls living in the same dimension is not even a theory I would bet money on, yet I still found it interesting, that doesn't mean I would support the theory.

    Can't we just for a moment stop pointing fingers at each others, and actually sit down and consider the different possibilities? Being open minded, as it is.

    Edit: Missed a few words.
    I would think thats two different discussions though. On one hand we would have the discussion of whether what mayuri did was right or wrong. And on the other we would have the discussion of whether the whole balance of souls thing is true or not. Otherwise things are muddled up overall. Even if the whole balance of soul thing is a lie it would not really have an effect on whether mayuri made the right call or not at the time. Mayuri made a call based on the information he had. Whether the call was right or not should be judged based on the context and information he had at his disposal. Even if the balance of souls thing turns out to be a lie or the amount of deaths would have been less than what mayuri sacrificed we can't just make mayuri retroactively wrong, its not fair.

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  10. #262
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member DarkBankai's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 545 Discussion / 546 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    What was at risk from the imbalance of souls intentionally made by the quincy was not the system though. The balance of souls does not sustain the political structure of SS or pays for the salaries of its politicians, the balance of souls prevents dimensions from leaking into the other. Presumably an entire dimension just spilling into the other is a bad scenario as the actual comparison which has been made so far is that such a thing would bring about the actual end of the world. In that regard as far as we know mayruri's actions did result in the ruthless murder of 28000 innocent men, women and children however the extreme scenario presented in the manga was that the alternative was to let everyone else die. So the choice mayuri had to make was to either sacrifice 28000 people and save everyone or just let the worlds spill into the other and see how many survive (if anyone). The manga has not elaborated on what exactly would happen if the worlds were spilled into the other but if at least 1 person was saved thanks to the choice mayuri made then it was worth it.

    ---------- Post added at 03:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:21 PM ----------

    And that said, the manga has rarely actually shown SS as evil. The only time where SS seemed evil was when rukia was about to be executed however that in itself was brought about by aizen and aizen alone as he actually killed the chamber 46 god knows when. The anime did show yamamoto as an evil old fashion asshole but that is only the anime, it is not cannon. remember the little speech juhabach gave yamamoto after he killed him? It was ultimately about how yamamoto and the gotei 13 were not as evil and ultimately did not have the capacity to not give a shit as in the past while current vandenreich emulates the old gotei 13 and their capacity to not give a damn.
    I disagree that SS is evil.
    They do seem to be trapped from time to time by their rules which they follow quite strictly.
    However the rukia situation was being directly manipulated by aizen. so it wasnt all just SS to blame there.

    also- regarding another post, Kenpachi is not evil- He doesnt even kill weaklings... its more like he trades blows, lets the opponent get some hits in gives one or two of his own, and if those hits accidentally kill - oh well.. but when they survive, and he has a chance to take another shot- he consistently says the fight is boring, that he doesnt like to finish off weaklings... if anything kenpachi is a purist. not evil, just a creature that revels in battle. I know I would if I had the kind of reiatsu he has.


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  11. #263
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity ca12nag3's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 545 Discussion / 546 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    What was at risk from the imbalance of souls intentionally made by the quincy was not the system though. The balance of souls does not sustain the political structure of SS or pays for the salaries of its politicians, the balance of souls prevents dimensions from leaking into the other. Presumably an entire dimension just spilling into the other is a bad scenario as the actual comparison which has been made so far is that such a thing would bring about the actual end of the world. In that regard as far as we know mayruri's actions did result in the ruthless murder of 28000 innocent men, women and children however the extreme scenario presented in the manga was that the alternative was to let everyone else die. So the choice mayuri had to make was to either sacrifice 28000 people and save everyone or just let the worlds spill into the other and see how many survive (if anyone). The manga has not elaborated on what exactly would happen if the worlds were spilled into the other but if at least 1 person was saved thanks to the choice mayuri made then it was worth it.

    ---------- Post added at 03:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:21 PM ----------

    And that said, the manga has rarely actually shown SS as evil. The only time where SS seemed evil was when rukia was about to be executed however that in itself was brought about by aizen and aizen alone as he actually killed the chamber 46 god knows when. The anime did show yamamoto as an evil old fashion asshole but that is only the anime, it is not cannon. remember the little speech juhabach gave yamamoto after he killed him? It was ultimately about how yamamoto and the gotei 13 were not as evil and ultimately did not have the capacity to not give a shit as in the past while current vandenreich emulates the old gotei 13 and their capacity to not give a damn.
    To me unless it happend before that worlds collided i dont see evidence of it and it looks damn broken. I mean Quincy shoot hollows and they *disapear*? So the souls dont get to SS. But in SS you have people that have children etc, its not a recyclingbin, neither is HM it has its own lifeforms as well.
    So the mystery is bigger then 1+1=2
    And then you have souls that get redirected towards hell.
    That Bach is a non natural entity or maybe even a fluke of evolution is pretty clear. Even his ability to take in the power of all the halfbreed Quincy. Thats really shocking. I mean he doesnt even care for his own offspring/kind. What is his goal anyways?

  12. #264
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Quantized's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 545 Discussion / 546 Predictions

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkBankai View Post
    I disagree that SS is evil.
    They do seem to be trapped from time to time by their rules which they follow quite strictly.
    However the rukia situation was being directly manipulated by aizen. so it wasnt all just SS to blame there.

    also- regarding another post, Kenpachi is not evil- He doesnt even kill weaklings... its more like he trades blows, lets the opponent get some hits in gives one or two of his own, and if those hits accidentally kill - oh well.. but when they survive, and he has a chance to take another shot- he consistently says the fight is boring, that he doesnt like to finish off weaklings... if anything kenpachi is a purist. not evil, just a creature that revels in battle. I know I would if I had the kind of reiatsu he has.
    I think kkck meant the perspective we had while reading the SS arc for the first time, during when it was new and fresh, and not so much our perspective of SS after the SS arc.
    While it's true that SS didn't seem that evil overall while we read the SS arc for the first time, they however attempted to kill Rukia without questioning (Blind faith), and even Ichigo and his friends.
    SS was primarily like "Shoot first, Ask questions later" towards Ichigo and the gang, and that's kinda evil in it's own way, so in a way both you and kkck are right at the same time, in my opinion.

    I agree that Zaraki isn't evil though, he only seem to kill people raising a weapon against him, and doesn't seem to do killing blows if the target cant or wont fight anymore.

  13. #265
    Banned 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Bleach 545 Discussion / 546 Predictions

    the chapters out, its pretty excellent, ichigo being that strong, wonder how long the soul society knew of his real strength, probably forever. they need to hurry up and show grimmjow, its been long enough its obvious enough.

  14. #266
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member hossice's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 545 Discussion

    I'm a little bit confused. How did Mizuiro know shunsui was the captain of the 8th division if karakura town was in soul society the whole time they were battling in the world of the living? -_-
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  15. #267
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Zeta42's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach 545 Discussion

    I think it happened off-page sometime between Aizen's defeat and transportation of Karakura town back to the human world.

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