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Thread: Crackpot theory : Sternritters = Vasto Lorde

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    Re: Crackpot theory : Sternritters = Vasto Lorde

    Quote Originally Posted by NoOneInParticular View Post
    Just to clarify, humanoid doesn't mean looking completely human, it just means having a human-like body shape. VLs are still Hollows, they should still have masks and other Hollow features. All Arrancar we've seen to date have at least a fragment of their mask left, there's no reason the VLs shouldn't be the same, and the Strenritter have none. Plus there are only meant to be about 10 VLs, and while plausible, it would be strange for only some of the SR to be Hollows and the others not.
    It's already proven, that if Arrancar tears off his mask, he becomes stronger. So the final stage should be not having mask at all. Being free and humanoid, just like Shinigami but with different core of powers.

    When was it said, that there should be only 10 VLs? I thought Hitsugaya only said, that if Aizen ha 10 VLs under his command, the SS would be doomed.

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    Re: Crackpot theory : Sternritters = Vasto Lorde

    Vastlordes are "hollows".

    Quincies are "humans".

    end of story.

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    Re: Crackpot theory : Sternritters = Vasto Lorde

    This has to be the most ridiculous theory, and probably worse then some of my past theories, so I thank you for making me look better.


    Can someone message me an anime that's similar to d grayman or claymore or deathnote?

    Ive seen Deathnote, deadman wonderland, fairytale, shigurui, ao no exorcist, beelzebub, samurai champloo, code geass, devil may cry, Hakuouki, monster, blood plus, gantz. Basically, something with demons and gore.

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    Re: Crackpot theory : Sternritters = Vasto Lorde

    Yeah I really doubt it.And their powers really aren't un-Quincy-like. In fact, think about even making that statement. We 're basically saying their powers aren't enough like Uryu's......Uryu was just one Quincy. Why should all other Quincy have the exact same abilities with an identical weapon? Doesn't hold true for Shinigami, Hollow, or Fullbringer. And it seems like all Quincy have their own version of Heilig Pfeil. The fodder Quincy also have pretty much the same weapon Uryu did at the beginning. It just shows how much potential Uryu has really.

    Plus, the name Thousand Year Holy Blood War Arc makes A LOT of sense now. Having Juha Bach's blood opens all sorts of new abilites and powers for Quincy it seems. What it really boils down to, is we didn't know much about Quincy before this arc. After all, only Quincy that we ever got to see really do anything is Uryu, and that one fight with Ryuuken.

    I'm betting they are dead Quincy and the ice world is a special level of Hell created for Quincy. This is a crackpot theory too, of course.

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    Re: Crackpot theory : Sternritters = Vasto Lorde

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    It's already proven, that if Arrancar tears off his mask, he becomes stronger. So the final stage should be not having mask at all. Being free and humanoid, just like Shinigami but with different core of powers.

    When was it said, that there should be only 10 VLs? I thought Hitsugaya only said, that if Aizen ha 10 VLs under his command, the SS would be doomed.
    Yeah, after rereading that chapter, the only thing Hitsugaya says is that they are extremely rare. I was going off one translation which said the number of them could be counted on your fingers, but I think they might have taken liberties on that trans, so you're right, nothing conclusive. Although I'd say the fact that there are 10 Espada and 10 aspects of death should mean something. There should be one VL for each aspect. Well, that's just my speculation really, but this is the way things tend to work out in these stories.

    As for the mask thing, you may well be right, after all Ulquiorra's mask fragments got smaller when he went R2, so there may be a perfect state in which an Arrancar is completely maskless, but we can't know that until we've seen such a case.

    But going back to this theory, one more thing I'd say is that VLs are supposed to be stronger than Captains in their base form, no Arrancarisation, nothing. If one went through Arranquincisation (that's the medical term) they shouldn't simply be stronger than Captains, they should be of an insane level. Again, speculation, but there it is.

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    Re: Crackpot theory : Sternritters = Vasto Lorde

    Crackpot theory... more like crack theory.

    No, really. There's nothing suggesting that SR are VL.
    They have their own unique, non-quincy powers? That's normal in Bleach.
    The "last quincy alive" is confusing as hell (Ryuuken much?). I wouldn't base any argument on it. We got one explanation here, but it might have another, completely different meaning... Kubo style.
    In fact, they're not uber strong as we'd expect from VL, as even with the bankai stealing (which cuts down the captains' strength by 90%), they weren't able to kill a single captain.
    As already said, the ice palace is not in HM. In fact, they didn't have much to do with HM until recently.
    JB planned to tell Ichi the story of the bad shinigami and good quincies and that he should side with his mother's side, the good quincies, until he starts believing it. Tough luck trying to convince unrelated VL that they're quincies (unless there's some kind of brainwash power we don't have any indication about). For all we know, the Arrancar were forcibly recruited - they fought on VR's side because they'd get killed otherwise.

    In the end, it really boils down to
    Quote Originally Posted by glougloubarbaki View Post
    - I want to see some goddam Vasto Lorde !
    Erfworld

    Quote Originally Posted by Bromamura View Post
    Meh can't have Bleach without fan raging, makes it fun.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Lee.J.Baxter's Avatar
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    Re: Crackpot theory : Sternritters = Vasto Lorde

    I disagree with your theory.....however.....

    I don't think you're actually that far off the mark. We've been told that there are 2 sets of opposites in the world of Bleach, which I have theorized to be for the following reasons;
    • Shinigami are the polar opposite to Quincies because Shinigami use their own internal energy (giving them unique powers), whilst Quincies use external energy (allowing them to absorb it and manipulate it to create weaponry).
    • Humans are the opposite to Hollows because Humans haven't got the ability to use either form of energy, whilst Hollows can use both internal (as their own powers) and external (to consume souls) energy.

    Now, the Sternritters seemingly possess the ability to manipulate both types of energy, as they possess their own unique powers. However, they aren't Hollows. My theory of the Sternritters is that the 'ceremony' involves consuming Shinigami reiatsu in order to gain access to their inner powers. This would essentially make them a sort of opposite to Ichigo, as he now manifests his Quincy powers in the form of a Zanpakutou.

    ---------- Post added at 10:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:43 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by 0Xellos View Post
    Crackpot theory... more like crack theory.

    No, really. There's nothing suggesting that SR are VL.
    They have their own unique, non-quincy powers? That's normal in Bleach.
    The "last quincy alive" is confusing as hell (Ryuuken much?). I wouldn't base any argument on it. We got one explanation here, but it might have another, completely different meaning... Kubo style.
    In fact, they're not uber strong as we'd expect from VL, as even with the bankai stealing (which cuts down the captains' strength by 90%), they weren't able to kill a single captain.
    As already said, the ice palace is not in HM. In fact, they didn't have much to do with HM until recently.
    JB planned to tell Ichi the story of the bad shinigami and good quincies and that he should side with his mother's side, the good quincies, until he starts believing it. Tough luck trying to convince unrelated VL that they're quincies (unless there's some kind of brainwash power we don't have any indication about). For all we know, the Arrancar were forcibly recruited - they fought on VR's side because they'd get killed otherwise.

    In the end, it really boils down to
    And the above may explain this confusing statement. If Ryukken also participated in the ceremony, then both he and the other Sternritters have actually transformed themselves into something that may not be classified as Quincies anymore.
    Predictions
    • Just as Quincies are evolved beings born from Humans, Shinigami are evolved beings born from Hollows.
    • Once Yhwach dies, Ichigo's Quincy powers will disappear and his soul will become unstable, causing the onset of Soul Suicide.
    • Yhwach isn't going to be the final antagonist.

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    Re: Crackpot theory : Sternritters = Vasto Lorde

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee.J.Baxter View Post
    Now, the Sternritters seemingly possess the ability to manipulate both types of energy, as they possess their own unique powers. However, they aren't Hollows. My theory of the Sternritters is that the 'ceremony' involves consuming Shinigami reiatsu in order to gain access to their inner powers. This would essentially make them a sort of opposite to Ichigo, as he now manifests his Quincy powers in the form of a Zanpakutou.
    http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/510/3

    The keyword is "before even being born".

    SRs are getting their Blut by drinking Juha's Blood. I don't see why ability would be any different. Drinking his blood is making their memories deep within to awaken. Thus, awakening their abilities as Quincies. It comes from their soul, as those are different. Instead of shinigamis, I think they have something to do with Hollow. Is it Hallibel's purpose in Shadow Realm? But there are some Quincies like Royd and Loyd, who can access their abilities without any ritual. I think every Quincy has some ability. They gather reishi, channel them through the core of their soul, thus making it unique and creating abilities. Sternritters are looking entirely different than normal Quincies. They seem to use swords, use some abilities, Vollstandig. Bow is a "relic of the past" as I can see.

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    Re: Crackpot theory : Sternritters = Vasto Lorde

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    SRs are getting their Blut by drinking Juha's Blood. I don't see why ability would be any different. Drinking his blood is making their memories deep within to awaken. Thus, awakening their abilities as Quincies.
    O_o was it stated somewhere in the manga that this is how it works for all SR, not just the ever-so-special Uryuu?
    Erfworld

    Quote Originally Posted by Bromamura View Post
    Meh can't have Bleach without fan raging, makes it fun.

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    Re: Crackpot theory : Sternritters = Vasto Lorde

    About the whole quincy-like or unquincy-like powers, what we have seen so far :
    - most quincy techs have a german name, and revolve more or less around the theme of the religious and the sacred (Holy selection, Sankt Zwinger, designs with crosses, etc...). Those are pretty much all the techniques that apparently any quincy skilled enough can use

    - on the other hand, the Sternritters each have individual powers that have apparently absolutely nothing to do with either reishi manipulation or the whole german/catholic theme, like making your opponent feal dread.

    Shinigami and hollows are souls, and have individual powers based on their nature as a soul (for instance, each Espada represents a facet of death, and Hitsugaya has a cold personality...). The same goes for fullbringers, because their powers are hollow-like.
    Now I make the (reasonnably far-fetched) argument that this type of individual powers might be specific to souls (they at least seem pretty different from "base" quincy techs). That's the base for my crackpot theory.

    Actually, I just had another one, only slightly less crazy : Stern Ritters are not VL, but their individual powers are somehow stolen from VL. JB beat the holy sh*t out of some VL, found a way to extract their powers like he did for the bankais, and gave it to his chosen followers. That would explain why he's keeping Halibel prisoner, or why Kirge said that JB "bestowed him" with the letter J (and with the power of the Jail ?).

    Yes, I think I like this one better !

    ---------- Post added at 05:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:54 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by danzouismadara View Post
    This has to be the most ridiculous theory, and probably worse then some of my past theories, so I thank you for making me look better.
    You are welcome

    ---------- Post added at 06:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:59 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by 0Xellos View Post
    Crackpot theory... more like crack theory.

    No, really. There's nothing suggesting that SR are VL.
    They have their own unique, non-quincy powers? That's normal in Bleach.
    The "last quincy alive" is confusing as hell (Ryuuken much?). I wouldn't base any argument on it. We got one explanation here, but it might have another, completely different meaning... Kubo style.
    In fact, they're not uber strong as we'd expect from VL, as even with the bankai stealing (which cuts down the captains' strength by 90%), they weren't able to kill a single captain.
    As already said, the ice palace is not in HM. In fact, they didn't have much to do with HM until recently.
    JB planned to tell Ichi the story of the bad shinigami and good quincies and that he should side with his mother's side, the good quincies, until he starts believing it. Tough luck trying to convince unrelated VL that they're quincies (unless there's some kind of brainwash power we don't have any indication about). For all we know, the Arrancar were forcibly recruited - they fought on VR's side because they'd get killed otherwise.

    In the end, it really boils down to


    - theory 2.0 is also an explanation for "last true quincy alive"
    - "they're not über strong" : Haschwald certainly is, and if he was not the one who beat Kenpachi but Royd was, then that makes two monsters right there. And we have not seen C in action for sure. So potentially 2 guys or more that are more than captain class
    - again, the only Arrancar we saw fighting for the quincy really didn't like a prisoner forced to fight : if anything, in the scene before he died, he seemed to long to please JB
    - I didn't really get the Ice Palace was not in Hueco Mundo. But it might be precisely the dimension/realm where the VL are or were hiding
    - I'm not going to lie, the last reason is an important one !

    ---------- Post added at 06:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:06 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee.J.Baxter View Post
    I disagree with your theory.....however.....

    I don't think you're actually that far off the mark. We've been told that there are 2 sets of opposites in the world of Bleach, which I have theorized to be for the following reasons;
    • Shinigami are the polar opposite to Quincies because Shinigami use their own internal energy (giving them unique powers), whilst Quincies use external energy (allowing them to absorb it and manipulate it to create weaponry).
    • Humans are the opposite to Hollows because Humans haven't got the ability to use either form of energy, whilst Hollows can use both internal (as their own powers) and external (to consume souls) energy.

    Now, the Sternritters seemingly possess the ability to manipulate both types of energy, as they possess their own unique powers. However, they aren't Hollows. My theory of the Sternritters is that the 'ceremony' involves consuming Shinigami reiatsu in order to gain access to their inner powers. This would essentially make them a sort of opposite to Ichigo, as he now manifests his Quincy powers in the form of a Zanpakutou.

    ---------- Post added at 10:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:43 PM ----------



    And the above may explain this confusing statement. If Ryukken also participated in the ceremony, then both he and the other Sternritters have actually transformed themselves into something that may not be classified as Quincies anymore.

    Change "shinigami powers" with "VL powers" and I agree with you. Otherwise, how could they have gotten their hands on powerful shinigami powers without revealing their existence to SS ?

    ---------- Post added at 06:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:09 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by FetherMan View Post
    Vastlordes are "hollows".

    Quincies are "humans".

    end of story.
    It's a bit short for an argumentation, but what convinced me was thinking of the fact that we were told the Loyd and Royd were born. So it would appear that they are indeed humans, contrary to my theory. But no matter, theory 2.0 solves this contradiction ! MOUAHAHAHA
    Last edited by glougloubarbaki; July 15, 2013 at 06:57 PM.

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    Re: Crackpot theory : Sternritters = Vasto Lorde

    Quote Originally Posted by 0Xellos View Post
    O_o was it stated somewhere in the manga that this is how it works for all SR, not just the ever-so-special Uryuu?
    The ceremony wasn't about URYU drinking blood. It was a ceremony, where Juha gives SR a "schrift". He said, that he will get letter A. So yeah, looking at this ceremony's form, it is common for every SR. Kirge said their Blut can be adjusted. Also, we have a case of Shaz Domino, who said he was "bestowed" with power. I don't really see the other possibility. And if Juha wants SR to awaken their abilities, like he did with Uryu, how do you think he can do it? Quincy powers come from Juha's Blood. So how to activate Quincy powers? The answer is simple: JUHA'S BLOOD.

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