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Thread: Ichigo's New Zanpakutō

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Delbi's Avatar
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    Ichigo's New Zanpakutō

    Ok, I don't normally post in the Bleach section but since Naruto has been failing me for years and I've been hanging on to it like drug addict I thought I'd post a theory I had here. (Sorry if someone already mentioned this)

    So I've been thinking, and I'm pretty sure Ichigo's new Zanpakutō is going to be a fire based one. There isn't a lot to go on for this, but I think it not only makes sense, but literally has to be the case.

    First though, let's look at the evidence.

    - His father has a fire based Zanpakutō. Ichigo's original Zanpakutō has a lot in common with his father's, and now that this it really is his own, I don't see why that trend will change.

    - Secondly, there is this. The "heat" of his reiatsu evaporated all of the water in the ocean. I'm not expert on Bleach, but I don't remember this ever happening with anyone else other than Yama.

    Now, I think there is a reason he needs a fire based Zanpakutō. In my mind only with a fire based Zanpakutō can he stand up to Yama's Bankai that Juha Bach stole. That thing was the be all end all of techniques, and I fail to see how anyone won't be utterly destroyed when facing it unless they can take the heat.

    Everyone thinks he's going to fight Ishida, but I fail to see how Ishida, even with a MASSIVE power boost can stand up to Ichigo who was already one of the strongest weapons SS had and is no undoubtedly much stronger. I don't think Ichigo is going to do much "losing" unless he is outnumbered or fighting Juha Bach or Haschwalth. Bach is his opponent, and thus he's going to need something that can stand up to his power and Yama's essentially.

    Other than that, there are a few "hints" along the way.

    - Ichigo being able to stop the Sōkyoku, something that should have been impossible according to nearly everyone. This makes me think he didn't stop it because of his power, but because he is naturally "attuned" so to speak towards fire.

    - In his Mugestu form he was "on fire" as black flames literally engulf his body. His sword also looks like it's made of flames.

    - The fact that his Bankai's Getsuga Tenshō is red and his Hollow Form's Cero is red.

    - When learning to use his Fullbring he was once again "on fire".

    So yea that's it, I'm probably wrong but yea that's why it's a theory . Just couldn't get this off my mind and figured I'd mention it.
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Zeta42's Avatar
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    Re: Ichigo's New Zanpakutō

    As much as I hate the thought of Zangetsu being a fire-type zanpakuto, you've raised a few very rational points. Indeed, Ichigo will need to be able to withstand Zanka no Tachi's immense heat, and the Sokyoku scene was never properly explained. Oh well. I'll try and accept this idea I abhor.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member jimtors's Avatar
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    Re: Ichigo's New Zanpakutō

    So you think Getsuga tenshou of isshin is composed of fire? And actually, the OLD Man's zan is not actually fire, it is just his reiatsu so hot and strong appearing like a fire.... Since if you notice that Haschwald said that such heat can't appear in flames, since flames has a limit on how hot they can be and Yama's reiatsu is so much hotter than that. So in my opinion, that Ichigo's zanpaktuo will never be a fire based.... it won't even be elmental but will be a hardcore type of zanpakutou, like the bald guy zan who is a subordinate of Kenpachi...

    By the way, there will always be heat when you forge a sword and water will usually evaporate.. Ichigo's case was so peculiar that it vaporized all the water because he has 2 Zangetsous.. not like the twin blades of kryoaku and ukitate but 2 zangetsus!

    Again, it will not be fire based.. I even bet for that.. Paypal to paypal or moneybookers i don't care which mode.. cause i'm sure it won't be fire based... ^__^

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    Re: Ichigo's New Zanpakutō

    Quote Originally Posted by jimtors View Post
    So you think Getsuga tenshou of isshin is composed of fire? And actually, the OLD Man's zan is not actually fire, it is just his reiatsu so hot and strong appearing like a fire.... Since if you notice that Haschwald said that such heat can't appear in flames, since flames has a limit on how hot they can be and Yama's reiatsu is so much hotter than that. So in my opinion, that Ichigo's zanpaktuo will never be a fire based
    Isshin's Getsuga Tenshou IS composed of fire. Is there someone who even doubts that? Old Man's zanpakuto IS fire. You know what reiatsu is? It's that inner power. It can manifest in fire (Yamaji) ice (Hitsugaya) robe (Ichigo) or as pure reiatsu (Kenpachi). The fact, that his reiatsu catches on fire means his element IS fire. Also, Ryujin Jakka is already said to have been STRONGEST FLAME-BASED ZANPAKUTO. Zanka No Tachi isn't different.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Zeta42's Avatar
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    Re: Ichigo's New Zanpakutō

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    Isshin's Getsuga Tenshou IS composed of fire. Is there someone who even doubts that?
    Yes, there is. Ichigo described Getsuga Tensho as a reiatsu blast. Ulquiorra compared his black Getsuga to a Cero, which is also a reiatsu blast (according to Yammy). If Isshin's GT was different from Ichigo's, it would've had a different name.

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    Re: Ichigo's New Zanpakutō

    http://www.mangareader.net/94-52277-...apter-405.html

    http://www.mangareader.net/94-52554-...apter-406.html

    For me it doesn't look like reiatsu. Even after attack it would still remain? What is it? Dust flying freely? Flames fit PERFECTLY. It even looks like flames.

    And do I have to remind you, that Ichigo's powers are just imitation? And source of his powers aren't Shinigami Powers, but Hollow's? Ichigo DOESN'T have the same power as Isshin. Their Shikai is ENTIRELY different. In Isshin's case it's normal blade engulfed in flames. In Ichigo's case it's normal blade, that can shoot Getsuga from the tip of it. And we all know how Getsuga works. In Isshin's case it works differently. It is not shot from the tip, whole blade is covered in flames, then Getsuga is being shot. How can you say, that if Ichigo's power is different, then Isshin's is as well? And what's that about techniques' name? It doesn't matter. Ichigo's Zanpakuto was mimicking Engetsu's GT. Of course technique would be called the same.

    And Ulquiorra calling his Black GT a Cero is just a proof, that Ichigo's power are Hollow-ish, not like Isshin's, who is PURE Shinigami.
    Last edited by Duniak; July 08, 2013 at 06:15 AM.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Zeta42's Avatar
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    Re: Ichigo's New Zanpakutō

    But Ichigo's GT looks exactly the same. Here, his first time using it:
    Spoiler show

    No, actually, THIS is his first time. During his bankai training with Juhagetsu:
    Spoiler show

    Pretty much like what you've shown.

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    Re: Ichigo's New Zanpakutō

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeta42 View Post
    But Ichigo's GT looks exactly the same. Here, his first time using it:
    Spoiler show

    No, actually, THIS is his first time. During his bankai training with Juhagetsu:
    Spoiler show

    Pretty much like what you've shown.
    Egdes are sharp, and what you showed is really a dust being shot upwards.He cut solid rock in two after all. That rock had to go somewhere. Edges of Isshin's reiatsu are not sharp. They're smooth, just like flame. The art itself is showing how it freely flies next to Isshin's blade.

    Also, Isshin's reiatsu is at a tip, then there's nothing, and near grup there is reiatsu too. Also, there is reiatsu behind him. Did he shoot his reiatsu from his ass? I don't think so. But we know, that his reiatsu changes into flames in Shikai and flies freely around him.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Notak's Avatar
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    Re: Ichigo's New Zanpakutō

    I don't think it will be Fire-based, because:

    - Isshin's Zanpakuto is different, it's called Engetsu and represents a different kind of moon. Ichigo's moon is different.

    - The heat that evaporated the water was from the forging process itself, not from the Zan's ability


    It is possible though, remember that the Quincy can use blue flames so Ichigo could learn to incorporate that into his powers, but again I doubt it.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Lee.J.Baxter's Avatar
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    Re: Ichigo's New Zanpakutō

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    http://www.mangareader.net/94-52277-...apter-405.html

    http://www.mangareader.net/94-52554-...apter-406.html

    For me it doesn't look like reiatsu. Even after attack it would still remain? What is it? Dust flying freely? Flames fit PERFECTLY. It even looks like flames.

    And do I have to remind you, that Ichigo's powers are just imitation? And source of his powers aren't Shinigami Powers, but Hollow's? Ichigo DOESN'T have the same power as Isshin. Their Shikai is ENTIRELY different. In Isshin's case it's normal blade engulfed in flames. In Ichigo's case it's normal blade, that can shoot Getsuga from the tip of it. And we all know how Getsuga works. In Isshin's case it works differently. It is not shot from the tip, whole blade is covered in flames, then Getsuga is being shot. How can you say, that if Ichigo's power is different, then Isshin's is as well? And what's that about techniques' name? It doesn't matter. Ichigo's Zanpakuto was mimicking Engetsu's GT. Of course technique would be called the same.

    And Ulquiorra calling his Black GT a Cero is just a proof, that Ichigo's power are Hollow-ish, not like Isshin's, who is PURE Shinigami.
    I don't think that's entirely accurate. The way I've interpreted it is that Ichigo's powers aren't an imitation of Shinigami powers, but are instead a Hollow-modified version of Shinigami powers. The White Hollow basically tapped into Ichigo's Shinigami powers when it entered his soul, acting in a similar fashion to an Asauchi; in other words, Ichigo is still actually using real Shinigami powers (although they may have been 'tweaked' by the White Hollow, which is why his Getsuga Tenshou resembles a Cero somewhat).

    As for Ichigo's Zanpakutou type, I don't think it's going to be fire-based, otherwise its name would suggest as such. I believe that Ichigo's Zanpakutou is similar (if not the same) as his father's, but it uses a different element instead of fire.
    Last edited by Lee.J.Baxter; July 08, 2013 at 09:58 AM.
    Predictions
    • Just as Quincies are evolved beings born from Humans, Shinigami are evolved beings born from Hollows.
    • Once Yhwach dies, Ichigo's Quincy powers will disappear and his soul will become unstable, causing the onset of Soul Suicide.
    • Yhwach isn't going to be the final antagonist.

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    Re: Ichigo's New Zanpakutō

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee.J.Baxter View Post
    I don't think that's entirely accurate. The way I've interpreted it is that Ichigo's powers aren't an imitation of Shinigami powers, but are instead a Hollow-modified version of Shinigami powers. The White Hollow basically tapped into Ichigo's Shinigami powers when it entered his soul, acting in a similar fashion to an Asauchi; in other words, Ichigo is still actually using real Shinigami powers (although they may have been 'tweaked' by the White Hollow, which is why his Getsuga Tenshou resembles a Cero somewhat).
    That's exactly what I said. Ichigo's powers are Hollow's imitation of Isshin's powers.

    I think new Zanpakuto has something to do with fire, because when Zangetsu was "stepping back" that Zanpakuto was clearly on fire.

    http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/541/18

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Delbi's Avatar
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    Re: Ichigo's New Zanpakutō

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeta42 View Post
    Yes, there is. Ichigo described Getsuga Tensho as a reiatsu blast. Ulquiorra compared his black Getsuga to a Cero, which is also a reiatsu blast (according to Yammy). If Isshin's GT was different from Ichigo's, it would've had a different name.
    Isshin's Zan is not the same as Ichigo's but they share similarities. Isshin's release is literally Burn, how is his Zan not Fire based? His Shikai literally is burning and it even has a fire based attack. I don't think there's any doubt that Isshin's Zan is fire based.

    Now Ichigo's obviously there is doubt because he hasn't used it yet.

    But there is something interesting about Isshin and Ichigo. Because despite their Zan's being different yet similar, they both are able to use Mugestu, the final Getsuga. And again, Mugetsu is basically a black flame. Why would the final technique in their similar Zan's be fire based if their actual Zan's aren't fire based?

    The Shiba clan all seem to have Zan's that have something to do with the Heavens, whether it be the name of their actual Zan, or the words needed for release. But it also seems to be that they are all elemental as well. Kaien's release was "Surge, Water(s) and Sky/Heaven" making a reference to Heavens, but his Shikai used water attacks.

    Now, it could be very possible that Ichigo's Zan is another element, but again that would conflict with Mugetsu being on fire would it not? Mugetsu seems to be something specific to Isshin's bloodline within the Shiba clan. We could understand more about bloodlines and how family memebers Zan's work but there isn't enough information to really go on about blood relatives from specific clans in this manga.
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

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    Re: Ichigo's New Zanpakutō

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    Ok, I don't normally post in the Bleach section but since Naruto has been failing me for years and I've been hanging on to it like drug addict I thought I'd post a theory I had here. (Sorry if someone already mentioned this)

    So I've been thinking, and I'm pretty sure Ichigo's new Zanpakutō is going to be a fire based one. There isn't a lot to go on for this, but I think it not only makes sense, but literally has to be the case.

    First though, let's look at the evidence.

    - His father has a fire based Zanpakutō. Ichigo's original Zanpakutō has a lot in common with his father's, and now that this it really is his own, I don't see why that trend will change.

    - Secondly, there is this. The "heat" of his reiatsu evaporated all of the water in the ocean. I'm not expert on Bleach, but I don't remember this ever happening with anyone else other than Yama.

    Now, I think there is a reason he needs a fire based Zanpakutō. In my mind only with a fire based Zanpakutō can he stand up to Yama's Bankai that Juha Bach stole. That thing was the be all end all of techniques, and I fail to see how anyone won't be utterly destroyed when facing it unless they can take the heat.

    Everyone thinks he's going to fight Ishida, but I fail to see how Ishida, even with a MASSIVE power boost can stand up to Ichigo who was already one of the strongest weapons SS had and is no undoubtedly much stronger. I don't think Ichigo is going to do much "losing" unless he is outnumbered or fighting Juha Bach or Haschwalth. Bach is his opponent, and thus he's going to need something that can stand up to his power and Yama's essentially.

    Other than that, there are a few "hints" along the way.

    - Ichigo being able to stop the Sōkyoku, something that should have been impossible according to nearly everyone. This makes me think he didn't stop it because of his power, but because he is naturally "attuned" so to speak towards fire.

    - In his Mugestu form he was "on fire" as black flames literally engulf his body. His sword also looks like it's made of flames.

    - The fact that his Bankai's Getsuga Tenshō is red and his Hollow Form's Cero is red.

    - When learning to use his Fullbring he was once again "on fire".

    So yea that's it, I'm probably wrong but yea that's why it's a theory . Just couldn't get this off my mind and figured I'd mention it.
    I don't think the heat from the bankai is an indication of a fire type zampakuto. Nimaiya made the point that the water around the palace was already needed for zampakuto forging to begin with. Now, it is true it does seem to be the case that it is not normal for so much water to be evaporated though. I guess it is possible that what we saw was the effect of those two things happening, water being necessary to begin with and ichigo having a fire type zampakuto.

    Taking the heat should ultimately be a matter of reiatsu IMO. Yamamoto's bankai was ultimately like that because he had his insanely powerful reiatsu to begin with. Yamamoto's bankai so far compressed his fire into his blade and had him release his own reiatsu so violently it looked like flames.... However ichigo's own bankai was already a compression of reiatsu and to boot the flames around yamamoto are in themselves nothing but pure unfiltered yet extremely violent reiatsu. A reiatsu of similar magnitude should be well capable of resisting that.

    As for the mugetsu bit, ichigo's reiatsu when using his bankai always kinda looked like flames. Also, his bankai getsuga tensho has never been red. Its even been called black getsuga in the past. As far as the manga has mentioned his bankai getsuga tensho is black although the anime does show it with red outlines...

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Delbi's Avatar
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    Re: Ichigo's New Zanpakutō

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    I don't think the heat from the bankai is an indication of a fire type zampakuto. Nimaiya made the point that the water around the palace was already needed for zampakuto forging to begin with. Now, it is true it does seem to be the case that it is not normal for so much water to be evaporated though. I guess it is possible that what we saw was the effect of those two things happening, water being necessary to begin with and ichigo having a fire type zampakuto.

    Taking the heat should ultimately be a matter of reiatsu IMO. Yamamoto's bankai was ultimately like that because he had his insanely powerful reiatsu to begin with. Yamamoto's bankai so far compressed his fire into his blade and had him release his own reiatsu so violently it looked like flames.... However ichigo's own bankai was already a compression of reiatsu and to boot the flames around yamamoto are in themselves nothing but pure unfiltered yet extremely violent reiatsu. A reiatsu of similar magnitude should be well capable of resisting that.

    As for the mugetsu bit, ichigo's reiatsu when using his bankai always kinda looked like flames. Also, his bankai getsuga tensho has never been red. Its even been called black getsuga in the past. As far as the manga has mentioned his bankai getsuga tensho is black although the anime does show it with red outlines...
    Yama's Shikai and Bankai is fire based though, can't deny that. And Yama's reiatsu does appears as flames but his Zan is all fire. The heat from his bankai is such that it no longer can appear as flames. But what do we associate extreme heat with? Fire. Right?

    Isshin's shikai is also fire based with the release of "burn" (not sure about his Bankai but it's safe to assume it's fire based as well).

    The fact his Bankai's orginal attack appeared flames like, and Mugetsu, something both he and is farther share is essentially just a black flame kind of alludes to the whole fire thing.

    And yea, so the Getsu isn't red, but is Cero is.

    In the end this is just a theory, but there are way to many things to allude to fire for me to think it's some kind of confidence. I honestly think the biggest factors are still his relationship to his father, the fact he's going to have to face Yama's Bankai, and the whole Sōkyoku business.
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

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    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Ichigo's New Zanpakutō

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    Yama's Shikai and Bankai is fire based though, can't deny that. And Yama's reiatsu does appears as flames but his Zan is all fire. The heat from his bankai is such that it no longer can appear as flames. But what do we associate extreme heat with? Fire. Right?

    Isshin's shikai is also fire based with the release of "burn" (not sure about his Bankai but it's safe to assume it's fire based as well).

    The fact his Bankai's orginal attack appeared flames like, and Mugetsu, something both he and is farther share is essentially just a black flame kind of alludes to the whole fire thing.

    And yea, so the Getsu isn't red, but is Cero is.

    In the end this is just a theory, but there are way to many things to allude to fire for me to think it's some kind of confidence. I honestly think the biggest factors are still his relationship to his father, the fact he's going to have to face Yama's Bankai, and the whole Sōkyoku business.
    Just for the record, I am not disagreeing with your theory. I am kinda undecided on the matter myself over. I was just making a few comments on the provided evidence.

    My point was not on the flames merely appearing as fire, my point was that the whole thing were ultimately reiatsu based attacks and as such they could be resisted with reiatsu. Overall its not like we have not seen people fighting back against temperature and whatnot with reiatsu. If such a thing was impossible to begin with then fighting yamamoto as a whole would be impossible. Just yamamoto's shikai is already enough to set the immediate area ablaze and burn everything. Just his shikai should be hundreds of degrees hot. And yet we have seen people being close to his shikai and not be burned alive on the spot. I would argue that shunsui and ukitake surviving the fight against him and hisagi not dying when driscol was burned alive is because they were able to resist being nearby thanks to their reiatsu.

    Well, his cero is red but what about it? Your point appeared to be that there was a fire based connection between a red getsuga and a red cero so if the getsuga is black then what exactly is your point? The basic cero is red anyways and fire we have seen so far is not quite red.

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