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View Poll Results: Who wins?

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33. You may not vote on this poll
  • Unohana Retsu

    21 63.64%
  • Barragan Luisenbarn

    12 36.36%
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Thread: Bleach Tournament Quarter Finals: Unohana vs Barragan

  1. #31
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Buzz Killington's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Tournament Quarter Finals: Unohana vs Barragan

    "Air-cutting", or at least what I'm pretty sure is being referred to here, is actually viable and very much possible in Bleach. In some cases it's called Ken'natsu. We've seen it multiple times, the greatest displays of which occured during the Aizen vs Ichigo fight (When Ichigo casually destroyed a mesa just by winging his sword while parrying Aizen). Though prior to that, Aizen cutting down Komamura's Bankai despite his sword never making contact with it is an example of it, Kenpachi cutting down the building after removing his patch in SS Arc is another, H2 Ichigo swinging his sword and kicking up a ton of rubble, etc

    Not gonna get into whether it'll work to defeat Barragan or not, but the idea is definitely legit. Bleach even has a name for it

    EDIT: Though, I will say I doubt it will work, seeing as Barragan wasn't affected in the least bit by the resulting air pressure caused by Soi Fons bankai explosion, which threw her back, tore her sash and all. So chances are he can sort of mitigate such things
    Last edited by Buzz Killington; July 12, 2013 at 05:39 PM.

  2. #32
    Banned 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Bleach Tournament Quarter Finals: Unohana vs Barragan

    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz Killington View Post
    "Air-cutting", or at least what I'm pretty sure is being referred to here, is actually viable and very much possible in Bleach. In some cases it's called Ken'natsu. We've seen it multiple times, the greatest displays of which occured during the Aizen vs Ichigo fight (When Ichigo casually destroyed a mesa just by winging his sword while parrying Aizen). Though prior to that, Aizen cutting down Komamura's Bankai despite his sword never making contact with it is an example of it, Kenpachi cutting down the building after removing his patch in SS Arc is another, H2 Ichigo swinging his sword and kicking up a ton of rubble, etc

    Not gonna get into whether it'll work to defeat Barragan or not, but the idea is definitely legit. Bleach even has a name for it

    EDIT: Though, I will say I doubt it will work, seeing as Barragan wasn't affected in the least bit by the resulting air pressure caused by Soi Fons bankai explosion, which threw her back, tore her sash and all. So chances are he can sort of mitigate such things
    Ken'natsu was made up when Ichigo used it against Ginjo. Even translator said he made it up as he couldn't make a name for it. It's not like Bleach "even has a name for it". Still, we aren't talking about simple outburst of strength (Hichigo). Aizen wounding Komamura's bankai? He wounded KOMAMURA and every wound Komamura gets is his Bankai's wound. It has NOTHING to do with propeling wind... Also, he has the power of illusion. He didn't have to move according to Komamura, but he could cut him ten times over. We talk about highly concentrated force made with wind, that can wound second strongest Espada, that can slow down time and age everything. As long as it is reiatsu or something material. We NEVER saw Unohana propelling, so we CAN'T take it into account.

  3. #33
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Buzz Killington's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Tournament Quarter Finals: Unohana vs Barragan

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    Still, we aren't talking about simple outburst of strength (Hichigo)
    This still counts as evidence of air pressure being released from a sword swing with the capacity to do damage. Labeling it a simple ourburst of strength doesn't change that

    Quote Quote:
    Aizen wounding Komamura's bankai? He wounded KOMAMURA and every wound Komamura gets is his Bankai's wound. It has NOTHING to do with propeling wind...
    Except, Komamura was too far away from him for his sword to reach him
    http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...3-page-15.html

    Clearly Aizens small blade isn't large enough to cover that much damage on Kokujo Tengen Myo'o, which seeing as it is infront of Komamura seems to be what was hit first, not Komamura himself as you're implying

    Quote Quote:
    Also, he has the power of illusion. He didn't have to move according to Komamura, but he could cut him ten times over.
    The damage Komamura took and where we see Aizen is consistent with the idea that there's no illusion being used in that instance. If you really want to rely on the excuse that what we saw wasn't what occured because of LolKS out of refusal to accept whats clearly an example of a sword swing extending beyond its reach with pressure, rei or w/e, feel free. Simply introducing a possibility doesn't outweigh the plausibility that what we saw is what actually occured

    Quote Quote:
    We talk about highly concentrated force made with wind, that can wound second strongest Espada, that can slow down time and age everything
    As I said, whether or not it can actually work against Barragan isn't really my concern. Point is this claims of yours:
    Spoiler show


    Is simply false. It's happened many times

    Quote Quote:
    We NEVER saw Unohana propelling, so we CAN'T take it into account.
    We don't need to see Unohana do it to assume she's capable of it. Lesser character have done it (Zaraku cutting down the building structure in SS Arc for example) and she's lightyears ahead of that particular version of Zaraki. It's called powerscaling. Same reason you said maybe Tessai could do what Hachi did to defeat Barragan despite him not showing it directly
    Last edited by Buzz Killington; July 12, 2013 at 06:15 PM.

  4. #34
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    Re: Bleach Tournament Quarter Finals: Unohana vs Barragan

    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz Killington View Post
    This still counts as evidence of air pressure being released from a sword swing with the capacity to do damage. Labeling it a simple ourburst of strength doesn't change that
    Like hell it does. Air pressure being released is one thing. A clear, precise cut is the only thing that can wound Barragan.



    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz Killington View Post
    Except, Komamura was too far away from him for his sword to reach him
    http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...3-page-15.html

    Clearly Aizens small blade isn't large enough to cover that much damage on Kokujo Tengen Myo'o, which seeing as it is infront of Komamura seems to be what was hit first, not Komamura himself as you're implying
    I don't even remember that panel. Well, Aizen could do it, I stand corrected. Damn, I don't know why I thought he got fodderized with Soifon and Shunsui there

    http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...5-page-20.html

    That's why I said it was just shunpo+slash.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz Killington View Post
    As I said, whether or not it can actually work against Barragan isn't really my concern. Point is this claims of yours:
    Is simply false. It's happened many times
    I would really appreciate if you showed me moooore panels where such a thing occured. I'm talking about actual fight there, not Kubo-showing-how-badass-character-is panel like Hichigo cutting ROCKS, Kenpachi cutting A BUILDING, and Ichigo cutting AIR. Well, it did look like a Getsuga for Ginjou, but it was neither on purpose nor effective.


    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz Killington View Post
    We don't need to see Unohana do it to assume she's capable of it. Lesser character have done it (Zaraki cutting down the building structure in SS Arc for example) and she's lightyears ahead of that particular version of Zaraki. It's called powerscaling. Same reason you said maybe Tessai could do what Hachi did to defeat Barragan despite him not showing it directly
    I said Tessai would do it too because I saw him using teleport already. TBTP arc? You should know by now, that Kubo loves those panels. Juha Bach getting behind Yamaji, shocked face, boom. Anything to hype some character. Showing off is like Kubo's trademark. The only panel it was made purposefully and effectively is the panel you gave with Aizen and Komamura.

    Also, this tournament doesn't allow "powerscaling". We can't take Captains' bankais in account, we can't use anything that wasn't shown by that character.

  5. #35
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member devstauk's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Tournament Quarter Finals: Unohana vs Barragan

    I don't understand how this is even a debate, Unohana wins hands down, fact is her being from the 1st generation of Captains alone gives her the class well above Barragan.

    Look she was a master swordswomen before the Gotei 13 was even created, she earned the title of Kenpachi. During the times of 'relative peace' She managed to not only switch from being a ruthless killer to having her own Medical squad that specializes in Kido healing, which no doubt was the second kind of Kido she learnt next to lethal types. She also teaches Healing Kido. It only makes sense that with her absolute knowledge of swordmanship which ascetically is exploit any weaknesses an opponent has...

    Unohana with a flawless victory.

    Fact is as soon Barragan got on the battlefield his arrogance would take over at which point he would show his greatest weakness which is released form, all Unohana would need to do is survey the area around Barragan notice he's basically decaying everything and its over. She'd do exactly the same thing as Pink tash guy (rubbish with names -_-) because she simply has that much more experience plus absolute control in battle.
    Last edited by devstauk; July 13, 2013 at 01:30 AM.
    Spoiler show

  6. #36
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Buzz Killington's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Tournament Quarter Finals: Unohana vs Barragan

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    Like hell it does. Air pressure being released is one thing. A clear, precise cut is the only thing that can wound Barragan.

    I don't even remember that panel. Well, Aizen could do it, I stand corrected. Damn, I don't know why I thought he got fodderized with Soifon and Shunsui there

    http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...5-page-20.html

    That's why I said it was just shunpo+slash.
    No problem man. Again, I'm not arguing it would work on Barragan, just that the idea is something which has occured before so it's not a random, baseless concept



    Quote Quote:
    I would really appreciate if you showed me moooore panels where such a thing occured. I'm talking about actual fight there, not Kubo-showing-how-badass-character-is panel like Hichigo cutting ROCKS, Kenpachi cutting A BUILDING, and Ichigo cutting AIR. Well, it did look like a Getsuga for Ginjou, but it was neither on purpose nor effective.
    Those were examples of them, your new condition (where they have to hit and damage a character) is just that. The point is the concept is sound, and has been displayed many times. Sometimes opponents were hit with the attacks sometimes they weren't. We can't just ignore the "kubo-showing-how-badass-character-is" panels that display it just because of some arbitrary condition

    However if you want other examples that aren't as clear cut, Kenpachi cutting through Yammy's leg when his sword could clearly not cover the size of it is an example of cutting force extending beyond the blade. Any other example of such a phenomenon would be as well

    Quote Quote:
    I said Tessai would do it too because I saw him using teleport already. TBTP arc? You should know by now, that Kubo loves those panels. Juha Bach getting behind Yamaji, shocked face, boom. Anything to hype some character. Showing off is like Kubo's trademark. The only panel it was made purposefully and effectively is the panel you gave with Aizen and Komamura.
    That panel would be really all that's needed, as only one was needed to show the statement that it's never happened before was false.

    Quote Quote:
    Also, this tournament doesn't allow "powerscaling". We can't take Captains' bankais in account, we can't use anything that wasn't shown by that character.
    What? Yes it does. Powerscaling is and has been used many times. See Yoruichi advancing as far as she did in the Tournament for evidence of this.

    The case of the slash effect is different however, as it's a residual effect that apparently occurs with more power. If SS Arc Kenpachi could do it, its perfectly reasonable that Unohana could as well. It's not as if it's a kido spell or anything that requires special knowledge. Bankai aren't taken into account because we can't even begin to assume what they could be if we haven't seen them, however what you're suggesting is like saying we can't assume that Soi Fon can use her Shunko to punch someone because Yoruichi did it and Soi Fon didn't
    Last edited by Buzz Killington; July 13, 2013 at 02:07 AM.

  7. #37
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    Re: Bleach Tournament Quarter Finals: Unohana vs Barragan

    Result

    Unohana Retsu: 21
    Barragan Luisenbarn: 12

    Unohana Retsu advances to the next round.

    You can discuss the results in Bleach Tournament Discussion Thread.

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