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Thread: Taming the Juubi

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    Taming the Juubi

    Kishi just pulled a new one.

    Normally, the stronger a power source, the harder it is to get it under control, and the greater the risks.

    Sage mode is a pain in the ass, taming a bijuu is a pain in the ass. Taming Kyuubi was the biggest pain in the ass, perhaps not necesarrily because he was the strongest, but whatever, it's still consistent with the meta world of manga where weak shit is easy to control and stronger shit is harder to control.

    So now we got the most unstable being in all of history. The beast can't even think or talk properly. He's just randomly fluctuating power all over the place like a madman. How can you ever tame such a thing?

    No worries. Just skip over all of that elaborate taming shit. The readers won't even notice.

    When people start b*tching about it on manga forums, just make something up about Rinnegan simply not needing the whole taming process and all the risks involved and stuff.
    Last edited by Xrayz0r; July 09, 2013 at 07:24 AM.

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    Re: Taming the Juubi

    I think they'll just have to subdue it with power that is greater than his. The strongest sealing technique was rendered useless. They have no choice but to fight, therefore, they have no choice but to be stronger. It's time for Naruto and Sasuke to finally shine and get some power up. Fuck the old generation, they're done.

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    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member zimbardo's Avatar
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    Re: Taming the Juubi

    Well, if anything, the Jyuubi could be the most stable creature of all - it is pure nature energy.
    As it lacks a personality, but, for me at least, having emotions may make it less stable.
    The only reason it may be unstable is that it is lacking part of itself (the 8 and 9 tails).

    Now, there are 2 reasons why taming the Jyuubi may be easier for Obito than taming the other beasts were for the other jinchuurichi.

    1stly - Obito has some experience. He has already controlled the Kyuubi, and the Yonbi (jinchuurichi).
    He has shown he can hold the other tailed beasts in check with his chakra chain powers.
    He has the Rinengan and Sharingan (though it is not stated as fact that this helps)

    2ndly - One of the reasons why it was hard to control the bijuu (prime example of this being Naruto and the Kyuubi) was not the power of the beasts, but the fact that their personalities clashed with the hosts. If the bijuu and the host have a similar mind, then the bijuu will lend power to the host. If not, the bijuu will not - and may actively try to take over the host.
    The Jyuubi, however, lacks a personality. Therefore it may be easier for someone to control its power. The Jyuubi will not have conflicting interests, it may not even try to resist the host (speculation).
    Obito certainly won't need to find common ground with the Jyuubi...

    Why is there no award for most enraged?!?

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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member Heriko's Avatar
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    Re: Taming the Juubi

    who said the jyuubi got tamed? oO be patient and wait a little bit.
    by the way, if you talk about 638, then you forgot the 24 hours rule.

    i am sorry, but i am not allowed to talk about, what i want to talk about -.-
    but i don't see kishi "pulling a new one"...
    Last edited by Heriko; July 09, 2013 at 08:48 AM.
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    Re: Taming the Juubi

    Quote Originally Posted by Heriko View Post
    who said the jyuubi got tamed? oO be patient and wait a little bit.
    If you have to ask me what chapter I'm talking about, then I can't really be spoiling can I? If you did read 638, then your first question would be useless coming from you, as you know the topic to be a legitimate one.



    As for zimbardo, another fail. I can provide in-story explanations and hypotheses myself. That's not the point. The point is Kishi pulling an easy one.

    As for controlling the Bijuu, no he cannot do that (not without Sharingan anyway). He can only control a Bijuu when it is sealed into the statue (which takes 3 days with 8 akatsuki members). He controls the statue, the statue holds the Bijuu. Actually, even when connected to the statue, the Bijuu were still able to rebel.

    The fact that Juubi can't talk, doesn't mean he has no personality. That's just semantic nonsense. Even if it was the case, that would be very convenient for Kishimoto, which is my point in the first place. A komodo dragon might not have a personality in the human sense, that doesn't mean his urges are any less real. Urges are the building blocks, not the ability to utter words and desires.
    Last edited by Xrayz0r; July 09, 2013 at 08:30 AM.

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    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member zimbardo's Avatar
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    Re: Taming the Juubi

    Quote Originally Posted by Xrayz0r View Post
    As for zimbardo, another fail.


    Quote Originally Posted by Xrayz0r View Post
    I can provide in-story explanations and hypotheses myself. That's not the point. The point is Kishi pulling an easy one.
    Well, it is his manga. He can choose to explain why later, or not. Personally, I really couldn't care less at the moment - I enjoy many things in this manga, the story, unfortunately, is no longer one of those.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xrayz0r View Post
    As for controlling the Bijuu, no he cannot do that (not without Sharingan anyway). He can only control a Bijuu when it is sealed into the statue (which takes 3 days with 8 akatsuki members). He controls the statue, the statue holds the Bijuu. Actually, even when connected to the statue, the Bijuu were still able to rebel.
    Well, we do know that the Sharingan helps control the Kyuubi (this Bijuu was mentioned specifically) by some unknown mechanism. But as I said, it was not stated that the sharingan or rinnengan helps - I was just speculating.
    As for the rebelling, I will address that below.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xrayz0r View Post
    The fact that Juubi can't talk, doesn't mean he has no personality. That's just semantic nonsense. Even if it was the case, that would be very convenient for Kishimoto, which is my point in the first place. A komodo dragon might not have a personality in the human sense, that doesn't mean his urges are any less real. Urges are the building blocks, not the ability to utter words and desires.
    I never stated that talking was necessary for personality. A dog has a personality - dogs certainly can not talk any human languages.
    Urges =/= personality. Many animals, such as flies, will unconsciously perform actions to ensure survival and propagation.
    Kuruma (previously a part of the Jyuubi) notes that it doesn't have any feelings or ideals and defines it as purely a force of nature. The Juubi just exists - it doesn't need a higher purpose. It will destroy without thinking and, like a fly, it may perform actions to enure its survival should it be threatened by any noxious stimuli. It doesn't need to actively think to perform either of these actions though.
    The SOT6Ps split the Jyuubi up and gave all of the parts their own personalities. He hoped that this would help maintain peace (as the beasts could think, feel, and try to cooperate).
    Last edited by zimbardo; July 09, 2013 at 08:54 AM.

    Why is there no award for most enraged?!?

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    Re: Taming the Juubi

    Quote Originally Posted by Xrayz0r
    So now we got the most unstable being in all of history. The beast can't even think or talk properly. He's just randomly fluctuating power all over the place like a madman. How can you ever tame such a thing?

    No worries. Just skip over all of that elaborate taming shit. The readers won't even notice.

    I think you might be going out of the way to make it seem less believable than it actually is. How "hard" was it for Rikudou Sennin to control the Juubi once he became a Jinchuuriki? There were no years of control or struggle from what we've seen. He just made it his bijuu and then chilled. And he had all the tools that Obito currently has, and it was even performed by one of his own techniques.

    So why do you believe Obito should have a tougher time at it than Rikudou Sennin? Especially considering this Juubi is technically weaker in power to the original, since it doesn't have Kurama or Gyuuki inside it?

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    Re: Taming the Juubi

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    I think you might be going out of the way to make it seem less believable than it actually is. How "hard" was it for Rikudou Sennin to control the Juubi once he became a Jinchuuriki? There were no years of control or struggle from what we've seen. He just made it his bijuu and then chilled. And he had all the tools that Obito currently has, and it was even performed by one of his own techniques.

    So why do you believe Obito should have a tougher time at it than Rikudou Sennin? Especially considering this Juubi is technically weaker in power to the original, since it doesn't have Kurama or Gyuuki inside it?
    If I had to say something reasonable, I'd say Obito's taming of the Juubi should be in equal proportion as Nagato's shpere compared to the moon.

    Also, for this particular topic I care little about in-story hypothesis and explanations. Like I said I could easily argue againt my own position that way myself. The point is kishimoto pulling an easy one. So far, taming a bijuu has been ridiculously difficult. Don't tell me simply having an eye changes all the rules.

    Quote Originally Posted by zimbardo View Post
    I never stated that talking was necessary for personality. A dog has a personality - dogs certainly can not talk any human languages.
    Urges =/= personality. Many animals, such as flies, will unconsciously perform actions to ensure survival and propagation.
    Kuruma (previously a part of the Jyuubi) notes that it doesn't have any feelings or ideals and defines it as purely a force of nature. The Juubi just exists - it doesn't need a higher purpose. It will destroy without thinking and, like a fly, it may perform actions to enure its survival should it be threatened by any noxious stimuli. It doesn't need to actively think to perform either of these actions though.
    That's exactly what I meant with fail. Semantic rethorical nonsense. You just transgressed from in-story naruto debate into philosophical debate, and back again. If you think you're any different from a fly in any deterministic or cognitive sense, you're free to. Cognition, your supposed building blocks for personality, rests on the same foundations as those that a fly acts upon. Laplace's superior intelligence would fail to see the difference. So you won't get anywhere with that. Stick to arguing within the actual narutoverse.

    If it is truly "just" a force of nature, why are all its actions destructive by nature? Doesn't seem statistically probable that an entity who's simply indifferent, who simply "is", spends 100% of its time destroying things or preparing to destroy things. The wind, or gravity, isn't constantly trying to kill us. Sometimes they're a pain in the ass, sometimes they're no problem. I would expect an indifferent force of nature, to see its indifference reflected by its actions: sometimes chilling about, sometimes accidentally destroying something. This creature seems highly interested in destruction, and therefore, by its very nature, should not like to be "controlled". If as you say it is capable of knowing when it is threatend instinctively, and thus acting accordingly out of self interest like a fly would, you still have a long way to go explaining why a similar reaction wouldn't occur as soon as it is sealed into a living container.

    Also, a force of nature doesn't have self interest. As you said yourself, it just "is". The wind doesn't care if you stop it, it will not focus all of its wind-power onto an agressor trying to contain or stop the wind.
    Last edited by Xrayz0r; July 10, 2013 at 07:38 AM.

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    Reviewer 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member otomo20's Avatar
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    Re: Taming the Juubi

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    I think you might be going out of the way to make it seem less believable than it actually is. How "hard" was it for Rikudou Sennin to control the Juubi once he became a Jinchuuriki? There were no years of control or struggle from what we've seen. He just made it his bijuu and then chilled. And he had all the tools that Obito currently has, and it was even performed by one of his own techniques.

    So why do you believe Obito should have a tougher time at it than Rikudou Sennin? Especially considering this Juubi is technically weaker in power to the original, since it doesn't have Kurama or Gyuuki inside it?
    Not sure I can agree with this, the juubi was so hard to control he was the only one able to contain it, and in the end of his life he worried it was so strong he split it into two pieces.

    I think the juubi has had a bad effect on Obito's mental health so far, he doesnt seem to realize who he is right now.

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    Re: Taming the Juubi

    Using Rikudou Sennin isn't a good idea in my opinion because we don't know what he did to control the Juubi or stop it from breaking out, if the Juubi didn't control him. I think Rikudou Sennin's body and chakra were far superior to Hashirama's, which Tobi and Madara have but still realized they'd find it difficult to control the incomplete Juubi in its final form. Even if Tobi does have some of the same perks that Rikudou Sennin did, it wouldn't necessarily mean he'd be able to control the Juubi. What if Tobi's lack of confidence, impure heart, not strong enough chakra, and weak body make him unable to control the Juubi? It's not like his body is at 100% in the first place.
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    Re: Taming the Juubi

    Quote Originally Posted by Xrayz0r View Post
    Kishi just pulled a new one.

    Normally, the stronger a power source, the harder it is to get it under control, and the greater the risks.

    Sage mode is a pain in the ass, taming a bijuu is a pain in the ass. Taming Kyuubi was the biggest pain in the ass, perhaps not necesarrily because he was the strongest, but whatever, it's still consistent with the meta world of manga where weak shit is easy to control and stronger shit is harder to control.

    So now we got the most unstable being in all of history. The beast can't even think or talk properly. He's just randomly fluctuating power all over the place like a madman. How can you ever tame such a thing?

    No worries. Just skip over all of that elaborate taming shit. The readers won't even notice.

    When people start b*tching about it on manga forums, just make something up about Rinnegan simply not needing the whole taming process and all the risks involved and stuff.
    That hasn't been true at all. Everyone who has grabbed the Sharingan or Mokuton or Rinnegan have no had any issue using the power right off the bat. Sasuke could use the Cursed Seal straight away and only had to suffer some pain. Naruto's "pain in the ass" Sage Mode training involved him sitting on his ass while being hit with a stick. And his taming of the Kyuubi involved a short fight with aid from his mother before the Kyuubi suddenly came around. So I'm not sure where this idea that gaining a strong power involves it being hard to control and great risk.

    And you're assuming that Obito "tamed" the Juubi. As Gaara and Naruto showed countless times, a host could easily make use of their Bijuu's ability without taming the Bijuu. Besides, it seems more like the Juubi took over Obito and became some new being, not that it got tamed by him.

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
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    Re: Taming the Juubi

    Quote Originally Posted by Xrayz0r
    Also, for this particular topic I care little about in-story hypothesis and explanations. Like I said I could easily argue againt my own position that way myself. The point is kishimoto pulling an easy one. So far, taming a bijuu has been ridiculously difficult. Don't tell me simply having an eye changes all the rules.
    Shouldn't it though? How hard was it for Madara to control Kurama just by "having an eye"? Controlling a bijuu is difficult if it's inside your body, taking control of your actions, sure. But it's been shown that Sasuke, someone with absolutely no experience subduing Bijuu, could disperse Kurama's chakra by hopping in Naruto's mind and using his doujutsu strength to outright overpower him. Now what if Sasuke had Kurama inside of his body? Shouldn't he be able to enter his inner world and just shut Kurama down in an instant with a simple glance?

    Yep. Absolutely. 100%. No doubt about it. Literally that easy. And this was friggin' Kurama. Strongest Bijuu of them all (til we find out about the Juubi ofcourse).

    Quote Originally Posted by otomo20
    Not sure I can agree with this, the juubi was so hard to control he was the only one able to contain it, and in the end of his life he worried it was so strong he split it into two pieces.
    He was also the only one with the Rinnegan. Don't get me wrong: I'm sure it took more than the Rinnegan to get the job done. But I'm absolutely 100% positive it couldn't be done without it. It's just opinion, sure. But, there you go.

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    Re: Taming the Juubi

    Guys are you sure that Obito is the one who is controlling the Juubi, isn't it the other way around.
    I am basing this hypothesis in the instant when Naruto or some one called him he reacted like he was listening it for the first time.

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    Re: Taming the Juubi

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark blood View Post
    Guys are you sure that Obito is the one who is controlling the Juubi, isn't it the other way around.
    I am basing this hypothesis in the instant when Naruto or some one called him he reacted like he was listening it for the first time.
    If it is another way around, then whers the tails? If you cant cant controll hte tailed beast power, then you will get tails, one by one and ultimately you will turn into the beast (10 tails in our case). And those marks on his back looks fishy, those magatamas must have some meaning.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Suzaku's Avatar
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    Re: Taming the Juubi

    Quote Originally Posted by Shader View Post
    If it is another way around, then whers the tails?
    They're growing out of his back. Kinda hard to miss 'em.

    But having or not having tails with the chakra cloak has nothing to do with controlling or not controlling the beast. Naruto's control modes just look different, probably due to the unique seal. Killer B and the others use the Version 1 and Version 2 forms with the tails emerging from the chakra cloak.

    The symbols on Obito's back are probably the seal mark he used to seal the Ten Tails in himself.
    Last edited by Suzaku; July 11, 2013 at 12:58 AM.

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