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Thread: haki and logia

  1. #16
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: haki and logia

    Quote Originally Posted by Schabrak View Post
    Yes, you did admit that he didn't use it at the beginning, but what's the reason for your first post than? Monet lost because Zoro was too strong/fast/fearsome and knew that Zoro was capable of slicing her organs apart with the usage of haki. She never had a chance, as Zoro isn't as forgiving as his captain or holding back. She was ice and he was proficient in slicing things apart. I'm pretty sure that she was nothing than fodder to him and thus he didn't need to use any more of his power.
    I was talking about that very same chapter page 16 and 18.

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: haki and logia

    To the OP's question -
    The basis is misleading though;

    the point of possessing a Logia is so that the user does not need to defend, at all, from normal attacks/skills/tech./etc.
    Only then as the story progresses that we learnt along with the SH that there's a way around that, which
    is to learn using Haki.

    Admiral in turn can use Armament Haki/Busoshoku Haki to defend, we deduced, or even just the normal physical
    Tekkai from CP unit. But why would an Admiral try using full body Armament Haki in the mid of the war?
    Vergo's full body Armament is quite unique on his own ability ( I actually didn't follow on that), but say for
    the War the Admirals wouln't need to use this 'full body' armament. That defeats the point for them to be
    Logia to begin with.

    * Side: Marco's attack likely damaged Akainu to an extent, and it's more like the Haki 'stays' longer to
    prevent the slashed area of Akainu to re-attach quickly. But if Akainu can't detect these sort of Haki attacks
    coming his way/ WB's higher power Haki-embedded slashes, then he wouldn't be the admiral he is.
    Last edited by jojoSB; July 13, 2013 at 08:22 PM.

  3. #18
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member jimtors's Avatar
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    Re: haki and logia

    (I don't want to sound pedantic)

    CoA - This type allows you to hit intangible and flowing bodies of Logia users. Makes an armor, hard, and flexible....

    Why is the word flexible bold? If you look at the fight between Ace and Akainu, he was able to hit ace since he used haki.. (that's given) but if you look at the wound of ace you can see the magma around his organs and tummy area... The magma shouldn't be able to touch ace's fire logia body. But, since it was imbued with haki, the mag ma can touch his body and organs thus burning it... which means CoA is not a rigid covering which will only work as an armor.. It is more flexible than that....

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    Re: haki and logia

    Quote Originally Posted by jimtors View Post
    (...) If you look at the fight between Ace and Akainu, he was able to hit ace since he used haki.. (that's given) (...)
    hi, I think thats not a "given" at all, but simply wrong. Akainu cleary explained the reason as to why he could dominate Ace so easily: his df was superior to Ace's (Chapter 573) Add to that the mental state Ace was in at the time, full of rage and I think exhausted, too, he wasn't fit to fight Akainu(right state of mind for a fight against such an enemy that is). How such a fight would have gone with Ace on top health we can only speculate. But not much better for Ace, I guess.

    About logias and haki
    Up to now there was no single real fight between two logias (I don't count Ace vs BB, because of BB's special logia). So we don't know how they can use haki together with their df. That leaves Ace vs Akainu as the first and only little insight how logia vs logia can play out (Edit: forgot Magellan vs Mr 3, but then Mr.3 is not really the fighting type,is he?). I don't disagree that logias can use haki in the way some of the previuos posts suggested, in terms of negating/countering haki attacks to some extend. But using haki as an offensive technique like Luffy or WB, that would be a little overkill. And wouldn't have Akianu used it in the war, when he was raining some magma, if it was possible? To further up the chances of obliterating the enemy forces? And remember that in the war the use of haki was called out as such by some guy or another. I know not everytime. I think if Akainu had used haki to kill Ace, someone would have said it ("nooo, he got Ace with his haki attack", or along those lines )

    PS: Sorry for the english, i hope it's comprehensible.
    Last edited by Dcreature; July 15, 2013 at 08:33 AM.

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  6. #20
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member David Rose's Avatar
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    Re: haki and logia

    To me it wouldn't make any sense to use haki when fighting another logia user. I mean except you pull a dagger to stab him. So far the good thing about logias was the owerwhelming power they posess, so why bother using haki when you get no benefit from it. If you have a fight like Aokiji vs. Akainu then they mash their elements together and that's pretty much it (understatement).

    From what we know of the ways of Haki it seems to be difficult to let alone concetrate it on your sword. Vergor was specially mentioned for beeing able to cover his whole body. It should be kinda hard, if not impossible to cover yourself in Armament, while your're in an elemental state. Heck, it should be difficult enough to move coordinated in a fight.

    What I'm trying to say is: Logias are already considered as the (with exceptions) "kings" of all DF. They offer both very good offense and defense. So why would anyone use Haki, which requires certain amounts of concetration in a high speed battle? The only reason would be to defend urself against Haki users to not get hurt. But for attaking? Kinda hard to defend against beeing flooded by magma.

    I know this is no ultimate argumentation, but i just wanted to add some of my thoughts. :P

    >>David rose to beat the Philistines, with five smooth stones and a sling.<<

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    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Schabrak's Avatar
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    Re: haki and logia

    Quote Originally Posted by David Rose View Post
    To me it wouldn't make any sense to use haki when fighting another logia user. I mean except you pull a dagger to stab him. So far the good thing about logias was the owerwhelming power they posess, so why bother using haki when you get no benefit from it. If you have a fight like Aokiji vs. Akainu then they mash their elements together and that's pretty much it (understatement).

    From what we know of the ways of Haki it seems to be difficult to let alone concetrate it on your sword. Vergor was specially mentioned for beeing able to cover his whole body. It should be kinda hard, if not impossible to cover yourself in Armament, while your're in an elemental state. Heck, it should be difficult enough to move coordinated in a fight.

    What I'm trying to say is: Logias are already considered as the (with exceptions) "kings" of all DF. They offer both very good offense and defense. So why would anyone use Haki, which requires certain amounts of concetration in a high speed battle? The only reason would be to defend urself against Haki users to not get hurt. But for attaking? Kinda hard to defend against beeing flooded by magma.

    I know this is no ultimate argumentation, but i just wanted to add some of my thoughts. :P
    Why would a logia user need any kind of weapon to damage the enemy. A strong enough CoA enables them to hit/touch the enemy, imagine any martial arts using logia fighter or someone like Lucci but with a logia DF.

    What's the reason it should be impossible? Since Luffy as a Paramecia is capable of using it on parts of his body, zoan/logia should be capable of doing exactly the same.

    Also this:
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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member David Rose's Avatar
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    Re: haki and logia

    Quote Originally Posted by Schabrak View Post
    Why would a logia user need any kind of weapon to damage the enemy. A strong enough CoA enables them to hit/touch the enemy, imagine any martial arts using logia fighter or someone like Lucci but with a logia DF.

    What's the reason it should be impossible? Since Luffy as a Paramecia is capable of using it on parts of his body, zoan/logia should be capable of doing exactly the same.
    Well, the first part was obviously ironic as an example of how you would need CoA when having a logia DF. Even if Lucci had a logia, he wouldn't be using it. Why concentrate on Haki for attacks, if you have a complete element at your disposal? :P

    Luffy can stretch his body, but it stays solid. A logia user like Akainu can liquify, so his shape changes constantly. It's arguably more complicated with an unstable surface. And if they become solid to use CoA, why using logia then, in the first place?

    >>David rose to beat the Philistines, with five smooth stones and a sling.<<

  9. #23
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member jimtors's Avatar
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    Re: haki and logia

    the New world is mopped by Logia users.. they are just plain fodders there when they don't know how to use haki.. The strongest people in One piece world is either paramecia or no DF at all.. Like Shanks, Roger, Whitebeard and Dragon.. Even the Yonkous (except BB) are no logia... To say that logia are the kings of DF and they don't need to use Haki in a fight is just stupid.. A fight between logia and logia should have haki or else they won't end.....

    Vergo can swim in the magma you know, with that kind of Haki Armament all over his body and not have a scratch.. but since Akainu has haki he can punch (plus magma) vergo and make him hurt....

    I'm pretty sure Akainu used haki to hit ace there....

    I will try to explain the Stab WB did to Aokiji that didn't kill him.. (later, I'm lazy right now)

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  11. #24
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Schabrak's Avatar
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    Re: haki and logia

    Quote Originally Posted by David Rose View Post
    Well, the first part was obviously ironic as an example of how you would need CoA when having a logia DF. Even if Lucci had a logia, he wouldn't be using it. Why concentrate on Haki for attacks, if you have a complete element at your disposal? :P

    Luffy can stretch his body, but it stays solid. A logia user like Akainu can liquify, so his shape changes constantly. It's arguably more complicated with an unstable surface. And if they become solid to use CoA, why using logia then, in the first place?
    Not everyone uses 'Hardening' while using CoA. Luffy who's body is in constant change due to the elasticity, is capable of using the stronger form of armament Haki, what stops logia users from training to be capable of the same, even if it's not as 'hard' as Luffy's, it is definitely the only way to survive the end game without suffering heavy defeats.

    Please reread what Rayleigth(on the animal island) and Robin(Punk Hazzard when Luffy grabs CC) had to say about Haki, that's all the arguments you might ever need. That and the comment from a Pekoms, a New World veteran, which you somehow ignored and is the answer to the bonded question. You are a 'nothing' if you don't use Haki, not even as a logia user.
    Last edited by Schabrak; July 16, 2013 at 02:31 AM.
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  13. #25
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    Re: haki and logia

    Quote Originally Posted by jimtors View Post
    (I don't want to sound pedantic)

    CoA - This type allows you to hit intangible and flowing bodies of Logia users. Makes an armor, hard, and flexible....

    Why is the word flexible bold? If you look at the fight between Ace and Akainu, he was able to hit ace since he used haki.. (that's given) but if you look at the wound of ace you can see the magma around his organs and tummy area... The magma shouldn't be able to touch ace's fire logia body. But, since it was imbued with haki, the mag ma can touch his body and organs thus burning it... which means CoA is not a rigid covering which will only work as an armor.. It is more flexible than that....
    no its because it's common sense that magma is hotter/stronger then fire.

    ---------- Post added at 03:00 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:59 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by jimtors View Post
    the New world is mopped by Logia users.. they are just plain fodders there when they don't know how to use haki.. The strongest people in One piece world is either paramecia or no DF at all.. Like Shanks, Roger, Whitebeard and Dragon.. Even the Yonkous (except BB) are no logia... To say that logia are the kings of DF and they don't need to use Haki in a fight is just stupid.. A fight between logia and logia should have haki or else they won't end.....

    Vergo can swim in the magma you know, with that kind of Haki Armament all over his body and not have a scratch.. but since Akainu has haki he can punch (plus magma) vergo and make him hurt....

    I'm pretty sure Akainu used haki to hit ace there....

    I will try to explain the Stab WB did to Aokiji that didn't kill him.. (later, I'm lazy right now)
    How do you know Rogers abilities again?


    Can someone message me an anime that's similar to d grayman or claymore or deathnote?

    Ive seen Deathnote, deadman wonderland, fairytale, shigurui, ao no exorcist, beelzebub, samurai champloo, code geass, devil may cry, Hakuouki, monster, blood plus, gantz. Basically, something with demons and gore.

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  15. #26
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member David Rose's Avatar
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    Re: haki and logia

    Quote Originally Posted by Schabrak View Post
    Not everyone uses 'Hardening' while using CoA. Luffy who's body is in constant change due to the elasticity, is capable of using the stronger form of armament Haki, what stops logia users from training to be capable of the same, even if it's not as 'hard' as Luffy's, it is definitely the only way to survive the end game without suffering heavy defeats.

    Please reread what Rayleigth(on the animal island) and Robin(Punk Hazzard when Luffy grabs CC) had to say about Haki, that's all the arguments you might ever need. That and the comment from a Pekoms, a New World veteran, which you somehow ignored and is the answer to the bonded question. You are a 'nothing' if you don't use Haki, not even as a logia user.
    Now then it's good i said you don't have to rely on Haki for offense. :P

    Also there is a difference between a clenched fist, that doesn't change shape, but rather the arm, and a surface, like magma, that is boiling and moving on it's own. At least so far we haven't seen Luffy maintaining CoA while stretching the hardened part. He uses it on his fist, then attacks and releases it again. He doesn't move his hand while it is hardened.

    >>David rose to beat the Philistines, with five smooth stones and a sling.<<

  16. #27
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Schabrak's Avatar
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    Re: haki and logia

    I'm still waiting for a single compelling argument for your case of logia users not working with Haki, it's contradicting the words of experienced pirates, I'm also waiting for you to actually replay to the facts/arguments provided by me. If you aren't interested in a discussion, just say so and I will ignore your posts in here.
    So far, first mate of the Pirate King/logia 1hit K.O.er/knowledgeable character > you.

    PS: Hardening isn't the only way of Haki used defensively, it's likely just the ultimate Form, so there might be misunderstanding between us.
    Last edited by Schabrak; July 16, 2013 at 04:21 AM.
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  17. #28
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member David Rose's Avatar
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    Re: haki and logia

    Dude, don't get all fired up, when you're missing the point. All i said is that a logia user only has to focus on strenghtening his CoA for defense, since their offense is already near perfect. Also i sair they arguably can't use full armament, when they are in an elemental state, because you can't solidify a liquid while stil performing a liquid state. They more likely use their CoA to cancel the attackers, like Aokiji in his quarrel with WB. He gets punched, then shatters -> he's able to maintain his elemental state.

    We already know logia users are using Haki all the time.

    >>David rose to beat the Philistines, with five smooth stones and a sling.<<

  18. #29
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    Re: haki and logia

    Quote Originally Posted by jimtors View Post
    the New world is mopped by Logia users.. they are just plain fodders there when they don't know how to use haki.. The strongest people in One piece world is either paramecia or no DF at all.. Like Shanks, Roger, Whitebeard and Dragon.. Even the Yonkous (except BB) are no logia... To say that logia are the kings of DF and they don't need to use Haki in a fight is just stupid.. A fight between logia and logia should have haki or else they won't end.....

    Vergo can swim in the magma you know, with that kind of Haki Armament all over his body and not have a scratch.. but since Akainu has haki he can punch (plus magma) vergo and make him hurt....

    I'm pretty sure Akainu used haki to hit ace there....

    I will try to explain the Stab WB did to Aokiji that didn't kill him.. (later, I'm lazy right now)
    No it'll probably be because Vergo's haki would not be strong enough to endure akainu's magma especially when it couldn't even endure law's sword slash since law's haki was stronger. Shanks black haki fists could be a lot stronger then luffy's black haki fists. Just because someone has haki, it doesn't mean they're invincible either. Im sure Akainu has haki, in order to face pirates with haki. All vice-admirals and above know haki.

    ---------- Post added at 06:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:49 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by David Rose View Post
    Dude, don't get all fired up, when you're missing the point. All i said is that a logia user only has to focus on strenghtening his CoA for defense, since their offense is already near perfect. Also i sair they arguably can't use full armament, when they are in an elemental state, because you can't solidify a liquid while stil performing a liquid state. They more likely use their CoA to cancel the attackers, like Aokiji in his quarrel with WB. He gets punched, then shatters -> he's able to maintain his elemental state.

    We already know logia users are using Haki all the time.
    offense is near perfect??? like how akainu's magma punch was against shanks haki sword? lol


    Can someone message me an anime that's similar to d grayman or claymore or deathnote?

    Ive seen Deathnote, deadman wonderland, fairytale, shigurui, ao no exorcist, beelzebub, samurai champloo, code geass, devil may cry, Hakuouki, monster, blood plus, gantz. Basically, something with demons and gore.

  19. #30
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member David Rose's Avatar
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    Re: haki and logia

    Quote Originally Posted by danzouismadara View Post
    offense is near perfect??? like how akainu's magma punch was against shanks haki sword? lol
    Well i guess if he could've known Shanks showing up to block his weak punch against Coby, he would've brought his own Haki imbued sword to have a better offense.

    >>David rose to beat the Philistines, with five smooth stones and a sling.<<

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