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Thread: do some fruits lack the scalation/leveling

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    do some fruits lack the scalation/leveling

    i think some fruits kinda ruin the scalation of characters, more like "you take the fruit and you are op"
    i mean, users like kinzaru, whitebeard, have no character personal effort
    you take the fruit, you blast everything away and everything is cool while for example luffy, has to use creativity (tons of it), lack and many other factors


    especially the gura gura, blackbeard learnt to use it in 3-5 minutes? it kinda kills the characters imo,

    while for example garp and mihawk seem even better doing the same things without powerups

    opinions?

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member eefrit's Avatar
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    Re: do some fruits lack the scalation/leveling

    I was making a big post but I'll just go with the simple answers.

    Those with strong fruits must train to be more proficient with it. BB didn't master the fruit in 3-5 minutes, he himself mentioned he didn't use it correctly. There were characters who had incredibly strong fruits that still ended up losing because they didn't utilize it to it's full potential and only used the obvious effects. Mr. 5, Ms. Valentine, Foxy, and more recently Caribou immediately come to mind.

    Also Haki is the great equalizer. Mihawk and Garp's mastery in Haki allow them to easily keep up with those with powerful fruits.
    Last edited by eefrit; July 13, 2013 at 12:34 PM.

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    Re: do some fruits lack the scalation/leveling

    I first thought like that about Edward, too - but then the images of his power made me rethink. He doesn't lose anything from his epicness, especially not after what he did single-handedly to Marineford island and the now former Marine Headquarters.

    Marshall didn't lose anything either, as he was able to take and use two DFs at once. He was greedy for power anyways so it fits his character.

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    Re: do some fruits lack the scalation/leveling

    Quote Originally Posted by vasilis View Post
    i think some fruits kinda ruin the scalation of characters, more like "you take the fruit and you are op"
    i mean, users like kinzaru, whitebeard, have no character personal effort
    you take the fruit, you blast everything away and everything is cool while for example luffy, has to use creativity (tons of it), lack and many other factors


    especially the gura gura, blackbeard learnt to use it in 3-5 minutes? it kinda kills the characters imo,

    while for example garp and mihawk seem even better doing the same things without powerups

    opinions?
    There are several cases that prove that's not true. For example, Luffy mentioned he never won against Ace, despite that he already had a Devil Fruit power and Ace don't.

    Speaking of Whitebeard, with one hand he blocked John Giant sword or stopped one of his ships. And still Kizaru could hold his bisento with is leg. This just prove that the two of them are absurdly strong.

    Of course we have heard from that subordinate of Doflamingo that the Mera Mera no Mi could change his life. On the other hand, we learned from Pekoms that some Logias trust their powers too much.
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    Re: do some fruits lack the scalation/leveling

    some powers can be op and this much is true, but simply put, its not as 1 sided or simple as that, some people could say laws power is op, but back in sabaody it wasn't near what it was now, just because we see someone whose fruit is extremely powerful now, doesn't mean their development didn't occur just because we never saw it. Also blackbeard had seen whitebeard use his powers many times in the past, which is what really allowed him to "pick up" quickly, i say pickup because he still couldn't control.

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    Re: do some fruits lack the scalation/leveling

    I would actually say the Gura Gura no Mi is one of the most difficult fruits to master. Whitebeard had to continuously pull his punches in order to not endanger his own crew, in fact he only stopped holding back once Ace died and he became enraged. Blackbeard's crew mentioned the same that Blackbeard's usage of the fruit endangered them. It's true that the Gura Gura no Mi gives a pretty straightforward boost in power, but it still requires mastery to control the untold destruction of the earthquake, and even with that control it is still a highly dangerous fruit to use. It also seems to me that physical strength has some influence on the fruit's power, like the harder you can "punch" the air with your muscles, the stronger the quakes you produce. That's why I don't think, for example, Nami could produce the same effects with it like Whitebeard did, because Whitebeard had insane physical strength while Nami does not. Blackbeard managed to figure out its usage because he was on Whitebeard's ship for 20 years and he also has great physical strength, and even with that, he still didn't properly master it. Notice how, for the entire time Whitebeard was using the fruit, Saobondy was perfectly safe, but the moment Blackbeard used the Gura Gura no Mi, Saobondy came under threat of tsunamis heading its way. This proves that even a powerful fruit as the Gura Gura no Mi still requires mastering and finetuning. Yes, it does immediatly bestow great power, but I'd argue that that actually makes it even harder to wield.

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    Re: do some fruits lack the scalation/leveling

    Honestly dude, @vasilis, the fact that you made this thread means you should either re-watch/re-read or check out the "Potential of Devil Fruit users" thread.
    A lot of us regulars on MH-OP have gone through a list of guys with Fruits that could take you to Vice-Admiral in a flash are in the wrong hands.

    Like eefrit mentioned, there's Mr.5, Ms. Valentine, Foxy, Caribou, Marine Captain Shu, Absalom, Dog Fruit: Daschund Model used by Mr.4's bazooka, The Awakened Zoan's are a bit of a waste too and one of the biggest is Funkfreed the Elephant of a Sword who lacks real bravery or any fighting prowess and is owned by Spandam who is a worse fighter than the average human.

    You're honestly far from being correct.
    The 3 Admirals are known as monsters and with or without their fruit they are extremely strong due to their immense Armament Haki abilities.

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    Re: do some fruits lack the scalation/leveling

    Many of you are right, there are certain amounts of control to exercise over many of the fruits.

    Ace was remembered for burning up the hats he kept trying to make for oz junior.

    and when Black Beard was using WHite beards powers he was endangering archipelago while doing it unlike Whitebeard.

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    Re: do some fruits lack the scalation/leveling

    a devil fruit will only be as powerful as its user..

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    Re: do some fruits lack the scalation/leveling

    OP is a manga, not an MMORPH or a MOBA. There is no balance in real world (or OP world) so there are bound to be devil fruits that we could call broken and devil fruits that simply suck. Just compare Smoker to Akainu or Enel. He has the intangibility and the ability of flight, but his power itself has no offensive capabilities whatsoever (aside from trying to choke someone with smoke).

    And yeah, as it was stated above me, devil fruit will be as strong as it's user, but you can't honestly say that Alvida and Whitebeard's powers could ever compare, no matter how good the user is with the power. In the same way, Foxxy could theoretically kill Whitebeard or anyone else in the manga with the proper use of his power.

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    Re: do some fruits lack the scalation/leveling

    As far as a fruit being immediately hax, I think that is extremely relative. Overall it would depend on the user and ultimately the fruit itself as the case can be that a fruit does not really have useful applications beyond the standard powers it has. I think that in any situation abilities will be almost invariably like a muscle though. You invariably need to train them to get them to be stronger. As far as BB goes I think the big issue is that he actually had seen the fruit in use a number of times so he could replicate WB's movements and to a great degree there is the consideration that he already had experience with a fruit and was pretty strong himself. Without all of those I doubt the fruit would be immediately usable overall.

    I would argue there are a few clues towards all fruits requiring mastery though. Say the mera mera no mi, we know for a fact that ace burned the hat he was making for oars jr a number of times. I don't think that would be an issue for someone with mastery over the fruit. As far as other logia go I think they generally would have limitations when it comes to the volume of the element they can create. The admirals were able to create huge amounts of their elements however at large we have not seen such a thing from other logias in spite that they should be in a similar situation. Even ace was never really shown producing the same volume of his element as the admirals. Perhaps the greatest example would be mone. She has virtually the same fruit as kuzan however the volume of snow she was able to produce never really matched the volume of ice kuzan was able to bring forth. The volume of element one can produce is perhaps literally like a muscle.

    Then there is the issue of attacks. The thing with all fruits is that they don't come with a handbook with the things they are able to make. In that regard every time we see a fruit user using a technique there is the fact that said technique will be 100% the merit of the user. He would have had to think of that particular application on his own. So even in situations where it seems the fruit does not require effort to master we have to consider this. No one taught them how to use their fruits.

    Finally when it comes to fruits being hax on their own there is the consideration that that will almost always only be the case against weaker people. Logia's ability to be intangible is useful everywhere but the introduction of haki makes the whole thing far less dangerous and if anything against proficient haki users intangibility only helps when it comes to mobility but not as defense. Weak people are the only ones that get defeated solely because of an ability. And there are things which are ultimately better than intangibility when it comes to fruits anyways. Buggy's thing is far more useful as even with haki he still can't be hurt with blades. Marco's ability to regenerate is far more useful than intangibility as haki won't even vaguely stop the healing as far as we know. Haki attacks do hurt luffy but I would argue taking haki attacks as a rubber man is preferable to taking them as a normal person.

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    Re: do some fruits lack the scalation/leveling

    if u have good user he can become good

    for ex cc he have fruit that that can control air (sleep,poison etc) if that fruit given to any admiral i think we have good fighter (its not that they r weak) just that if fruit used correctly its can be powerful

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    Re: do some fruits lack the scalation/leveling

    If you take away Edward's devil fruit and put him up against Garp or Mihawk, could he win? What about if he had to fight Sakazuki without his power? I think he would lose badly. Without having the same level of strength Teach could produce the exact same power as Edward. Sure he didn't know how to hold back, but he gained the power to destroy the world none the less. How hard is it to mimic someone's movements. Its not like Edward had a secret password to use his power. Why do you think Teach could suddenly become a freaking Yonkou?

    Ace, Smoker and Crocodile can't produce large amounts of their power but that is because they've reached the peak of their fruit ability. Crocodile said himself that he mastered his fruit to perfection so him not being able to suck MF dry is simply because his fruit's range isn't that large. If his fruit was that strong then people would say it has the power to destroy the world as well. Sakazuki, Kuzan Edward, Enel and Borsalino just have stronger fruits than everyone else.

    If Sanji gained Borsalino's fruit he would jump to Marco's level easily. All he'd have to do is move at the speed of light, kick at the speed of light with his already powerful kicks and blast people with beams. I'm not saying he could just beat a Yonkou, but he would probably become even stronger than Luffy. Now don't go me wrong. I don't think that having a devil fruit just makes you good. They still have to train to master the fruit. I just feel like the strongest fruits definitely can't be put off as no big deal.
    Last edited by GomuGomu_Getsuga; July 24, 2013 at 01:46 AM.

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    Re: do some fruits lack the scalation/leveling

    Garp, Zorro, and Mihawk, are completely bad ass. I'm a total fan girl for them and I'm a dude. But yes, I do agree that lack of leveling with the Devil Fruits makes it a little less dull, but not completely. Something that made me mad was how Ace died. DID NOT MAKE SENSE AT ALL. Somebody please explain. :/

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    Post Re: do some fruits lack the scalation/leveling

    Quote Originally Posted by GomuGomu_Getsuga View Post
    If you take away Edward's devil fruit and put him up against Garp or Mihawk, could he win? What about if he had to fight Sakazuki without his power? I think he would lose badly. Without having the same level of strength Teach could produce the exact same power as Edward. Sure he didn't know how to hold back, but he gained the power to destroy the world none the less. How hard is it to mimic someone's movements. Its not like Edward had a secret password to use his power. Why do you think Teach could suddenly become a freaking Yonkou?
    No.
    He became a freaking Yonkou in just a year because he had TWO Fruits and the two of them are amongst the Top15 most HAX Fruits out of the 70+ Fruits in existence in any sane person's list.

    BlackBeard knew how to use the Gura Gura no Mi because he was a crewmember of Whitebeards for many years. Remember, BB was apparently more suited to be a Division Leader than Ace according to Ace himself even.

    Quote Originally Posted by GomuGomu_Getsuga View Post
    Ace, Smoker and Crocodile can't produce large amounts of their power but that is because they've reached the peak of their fruit ability. Crocodile said himself that he mastered his fruit to perfection so him not being able to suck MF dry is simply because his fruit's range isn't that large. If his fruit was that strong then people would say it has the power to destroy the world as well. Sakazuki, Kuzan Edward, Enel and Borsalino just have stronger fruits than everyone else.
    Not quite. How can you say Ace reached the peak of his abilities at 20 years old? Even though his improvement ratewas near Luffy's improvement rate since like ever once we saw their backstory.
    How can you say Smoker reached his peak? When he has been improving his abilities since we first saw him.

    As for Crocodile, there's what he has said, but really he's only missing Armament Haki and the ability tank much more hits to separate him being practically an Admiral.

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