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i agree with the verdict
i disagree with the verdict
either i am split or i dont feel i know what really happened
i dont care
I don't know, it's obvious to me who was looking for a confrontation that night - the one with a loaded gun.
---------- Post added at 06:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:03 PM ----------
"These assholes, they always get away with it" ...I mean, that statement is obvious enough to me...
It's indeed obvious that Zimmerman was looking for a confrontation and his gun certainly gave him a sense of security. It would have been too late when the police arrived and even then Martin had done nothing against the law, so he wanted to take the matter into his own hands. From what I can gather from the events, he followed and argued with Martin, and Martin naturally didn't take the accusations and scolding well. He took the upper hand in the ensuing fight, got on top of Zimmerman and kept hitting him. Now if this is what happened and Martin didn't stop even after Zimmerman was yelling for help, he didn't leave much choice to his adversary under the circumstances. Zimmerman had no right to do what he did but what he did wouldn't give Martin the right to beat the living daylights out of Zimmerman either. Had Martin stopped and left Zimmerman with a couple of bruises and perhaps a broken nose, there wouldn't have been much Zimmerman could do about it other than perhaps suing for assault and battery. IMHO Martin, by losing control and severely overreacting, gave legal grounds to Zimmerman for self defense.
If there's evidence, direct or even circumstantial, that it was Zimmerman who was hitting the boy or he was never in plain danger, then a case can be made that Zimmerman should have been sent to prison for manslaughter. I'm just going by the scenario which seems most probable to me.
That is all kind of meaningless to me. Zimmerman had a gun, he had no right to accost a civilian, whether he was suspicious to him or not. He isn't a law enforcement officer, Martin had no way of knowing he was armed. Why did they start fighting in the first place? Was it before or after he brandished his weapon?
I understand that SYG and bad policework contributed to him being found non-guilty, but it's obvious to me who was the aggressor that night and who wasn't.
The transcript alone should prove that Zimmerman had no justification whatsoever in going after Trayvon, and it was out of profiling that he stalked him. If Zimmerman wasn't just a paranoid racist, Trayvon could still be alive.
Well, if Zimmerman didn't have a gun and Martin did beat him up until he died or went comatose, I don't think it would be justified regardless of what Zimmerman said to him. I see your point, perhaps Zimmerman brandished his weapon and threatened Martin, perhaps he made racist remarks, that much is possible. It would give valid grounds to Martin to defend himself against an aggressor, that is true but Zimmerman's condition after the fight and existence of "yelling for help" lead me to believe that Martin let his anger get the best of him and crossed the line of self-defence at one point. Unfortunately we'll never know the whole truth, it's very well possible that Martin was absolutely right, I don't think it's a good idea to let people walk around carrying guns anyway.
I don't think a scenario in which zimmerman brandished his gun before being attack is probable at all. The scenario has the direct implication that zimmerman for no reason whatsoever took his gun out and the reaction martin had was to attack. Does it make sense for martin to have had such a reaction? It is true there are a few people out there who are actually badass enough to disarm an armed enemy and there are a few people out there without the training to do that but still are stupid enough to try however the fact is the vast majority of people will react in a pretty standard "OMG DON"T SHOOT ME!" while crying.... Taking in consideration how little we know about the situation assuming zimmerman brandished his gun and martin's reaction was to attack is just plain irrational and unjustifiable. The actual version accepted in the case (martin eventually approaching zimmerman and attacking him) is far more simple, it actually makes sense and while it still implies a great degree of stupidity it is still stupidity to a far lesser degree than attempting to beat up the guy brandishing a gun.
That's exactly why people debated over who was actually yelling for help
But Zimmerman put himself in that situation.
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---------- Post added at 08:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:50 PM ----------
---------- Post added at 08:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:52 PM ----------
Excuse me? I think you're the one not thinking. Why are you getting defensive? I said nothing about the wounds, I was talking about the audio recording specifically. I never said anything about who initiated the fight, in fact, I have no reason to doubt that Martin beat up Zimmerman, but that doesn't mean he was the aggressor. I was wrong on one front - there apparently was an eyewitness who said he saw Martin on top of Zimmerman, he went to call 911, heard a gunshot and returned to Martin on the ground, dead. We don't have much of an idea about what transpired before they got into a fight, only what Zimmerman says and what Rachel Jenteal said about her phone call with Martin. He obviously got his ass handed to him, regardless of whether he physically/verbally started it or not.
All my point was, that if you were Zimmerman, why would go out into the dark to follow someone with a loaded weapon? You obviously feel like you might need to use it. Why put yourself in that position in the first place? If you were Martin, what would you do if a stranger was following you around in a car at night? I have no idea!
The expert witness in the first clip made his findings based on physical evidence, along with Zimmerman's side of things. He admitted to that. Just because you picked a fight, doesn't mean you'll win it. Maybe Martin felt his life was threatened, and that's why he beat the crap out of Zimmerman (SYG etc.). There is no other side to it because Martin is dead...like I said before. None of us really know. Sorry for "repeating" myself to you, but maybe you should actually pay attention to what I write...
Last edited by xi0; August 30, 2013 at 10:56 PM.
Why am I even bother to argue with what you wrote?? Because most of what you wrote is what I have already repeating myself. And or someone had already mentioned on this thread. But statement like what I quoted showed an extremely bias approach to the case. Should I point it out for you what wrong with it? Or do you think I am some sort of dumbass to post all those links about the wound as a reply to the quote above?? Or you can't figure out a scenario where Zimmerman could potentially call out for help? Or are you one of those people if I punch you and your head hit the ground couple time. But ya just man up and make no sound.Quote:
---------- Post added at 11:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:22 PM ----------
Because you are talking to me like I am some sort of an ignorant Zimmerman fan or something.Quote:
Isn't this obvious for both statement? Quote me where I disagree with that.Quote:
Hmm, for the first question, I am wonder, are you living in the USA and are you knowledge of this crazy gun culture we are living in. For you to ask that question is quite weird. Can you not come up with an answer to your own question?? I could think of many reasons why Zimmerman is in that situation (especially regarding of the back story of this case). The controversy here is that whether it is stupid or not. Then there are the second question, what do you think my answer is. "I have no idea." Is that mocking me or what?Quote:
Isn't this also obvious?Quote:
No you haven't reading my post hence you didn't understand what I meant by the dead can't talk. And then you repeat with Martin is dead and tell me I should pay attention to what you wrote. >____<Quote:
How am I showing extreme bias when we're both on the same side of this argument?
I did not mean to imply that Zimmerman would be incapable of crying for help, I meant that I didn't understand why a guy, who obviously had an upper-hand in any sort of physical altercation by having a gun, would put himself in that position in the first place. It not only makes me question his motivation, it makes me question his sanity.Originally Posted by Me
Are we clear now?
---------- Post added at 12:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:38 AM ----------
Stop making accusations over misunderstandings...
There is no mocking you...they're rhetorical questions and I wasn't asking you specifically. It was merely to demonstrate and try to understand what kind of mindset both sides had that night. Nothing else...
Last edited by xi0; August 30, 2013 at 11:49 PM.