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View Poll Results: what do you think of the verdict?

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  • i agree with the verdict

    4 33.33%
  • i disagree with the verdict

    5 41.67%
  • either i am split or i dont feel i know what really happened

    0 0%
  • i dont care

    3 25.00%
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Thread: What is your opinion of the Trayvon Martin case and verdict?

  1. #106
    ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つMOLLY༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member xi0's Avatar
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    Re: What is your opinion of the Trayvon Martin case and verdict?

    Quote Originally Posted by Miyagi View Post
    Even though Zimmerman's actions were provocative, would it justify Martin beating him to death? I believe Martin was right until after he threw a couple of punches but according to witness testimony, it seems he lost control and didn't stop even when Zimmerman was yelling for help and was clearly in bad shape.
    It's not clear who was yelling for help. Both sides wanted to paint that their way. It does make sense that Zimmerman was the one doing so, considering he quite obviously lost the fight and resorted to shooting him. But even then, we don't know the circumstances. There were no eyewitnesses, only locals who called 911 because they heard an altercation and a gunshot. There was testimony from Martin's friend who he was in a phone conversation with that he said he was being followed by someone.

    I don't know, it's obvious to me who was looking for a confrontation that night - the one with a loaded gun.

    ---------- Post added at 06:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:03 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    Spoiler:  transcript of the conversation between zimmerman and police department show


    thought I would post that...
    What Zimmerman didn't know is that Martin's mother's boyfriend lived in the same gated community as Zimmerman. It's obvious paranoia and even if everything Zimmerman said was truth, it was barely even loitering.

    "These assholes, they always get away with it" ...I mean, that statement is obvious enough to me...

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  3. #107
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    Re: What is your opinion of the Trayvon Martin case and verdict?

    It's indeed obvious that Zimmerman was looking for a confrontation and his gun certainly gave him a sense of security. It would have been too late when the police arrived and even then Martin had done nothing against the law, so he wanted to take the matter into his own hands. From what I can gather from the events, he followed and argued with Martin, and Martin naturally didn't take the accusations and scolding well. He took the upper hand in the ensuing fight, got on top of Zimmerman and kept hitting him. Now if this is what happened and Martin didn't stop even after Zimmerman was yelling for help, he didn't leave much choice to his adversary under the circumstances. Zimmerman had no right to do what he did but what he did wouldn't give Martin the right to beat the living daylights out of Zimmerman either. Had Martin stopped and left Zimmerman with a couple of bruises and perhaps a broken nose, there wouldn't have been much Zimmerman could do about it other than perhaps suing for assault and battery. IMHO Martin, by losing control and severely overreacting, gave legal grounds to Zimmerman for self defense.

    If there's evidence, direct or even circumstantial, that it was Zimmerman who was hitting the boy or he was never in plain danger, then a case can be made that Zimmerman should have been sent to prison for manslaughter. I'm just going by the scenario which seems most probable to me.

  4. #108
    ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つMOLLY༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member xi0's Avatar
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    Re: What is your opinion of the Trayvon Martin case and verdict?

    That is all kind of meaningless to me. Zimmerman had a gun, he had no right to accost a civilian, whether he was suspicious to him or not. He isn't a law enforcement officer, Martin had no way of knowing he was armed. Why did they start fighting in the first place? Was it before or after he brandished his weapon?

    I understand that SYG and bad policework contributed to him being found non-guilty, but it's obvious to me who was the aggressor that night and who wasn't.

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  6. #109
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    Re: What is your opinion of the Trayvon Martin case and verdict?

    The transcript alone should prove that Zimmerman had no justification whatsoever in going after Trayvon, and it was out of profiling that he stalked him. If Zimmerman wasn't just a paranoid racist, Trayvon could still be alive.

  7. #110
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    Re: What is your opinion of the Trayvon Martin case and verdict?

    Well, if Zimmerman didn't have a gun and Martin did beat him up until he died or went comatose, I don't think it would be justified regardless of what Zimmerman said to him. I see your point, perhaps Zimmerman brandished his weapon and threatened Martin, perhaps he made racist remarks, that much is possible. It would give valid grounds to Martin to defend himself against an aggressor, that is true but Zimmerman's condition after the fight and existence of "yelling for help" lead me to believe that Martin let his anger get the best of him and crossed the line of self-defence at one point. Unfortunately we'll never know the whole truth, it's very well possible that Martin was absolutely right, I don't think it's a good idea to let people walk around carrying guns anyway.

  8. #111
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    Re: What is your opinion of the Trayvon Martin case and verdict?

    Quote Originally Posted by Miyagi View Post
    Well, if Zimmerman didn't have a gun and Martin did beat him up until he died or went comatose, I don't think it would be justified regardless of what Zimmerman said to him. I see your point, perhaps Zimmerman brandished his weapon and threatened Martin, perhaps he made racist remarks, that much is possible. It would give valid grounds to Martin to defend himself against an aggressor, that is true but Zimmerman's condition after the fight and existence of "yelling for help" lead me to believe that Martin let his anger get the best of him and crossed the line of self-defence at one point. Unfortunately we'll never know the whole truth, it's very well possible that Martin was absolutely right, I don't think it's a good idea to let people walk around carrying guns anyway.
    the dead can't talk. Not all case fit this, but in this particular case, if one person is dead, the other should go to jail because both act kinda stupid. Though, the fault is more with Zimmerman.

  9. #112
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: What is your opinion of the Trayvon Martin case and verdict?

    I don't think a scenario in which zimmerman brandished his gun before being attack is probable at all. The scenario has the direct implication that zimmerman for no reason whatsoever took his gun out and the reaction martin had was to attack. Does it make sense for martin to have had such a reaction? It is true there are a few people out there who are actually badass enough to disarm an armed enemy and there are a few people out there without the training to do that but still are stupid enough to try however the fact is the vast majority of people will react in a pretty standard "OMG DON"T SHOOT ME!" while crying.... Taking in consideration how little we know about the situation assuming zimmerman brandished his gun and martin's reaction was to attack is just plain irrational and unjustifiable. The actual version accepted in the case (martin eventually approaching zimmerman and attacking him) is far more simple, it actually makes sense and while it still implies a great degree of stupidity it is still stupidity to a far lesser degree than attempting to beat up the guy brandishing a gun.

  10. #113
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    Re: What is your opinion of the Trayvon Martin case and verdict?

    Quote Originally Posted by Miyagi View Post
    Well, if Zimmerman didn't have a gun and Martin did beat him up until he died or went comatose, I don't think it would be justified regardless of what Zimmerman said to him. I see your point, perhaps Zimmerman brandished his weapon and threatened Martin, perhaps he made racist remarks, that much is possible. It would give valid grounds to Martin to defend himself against an aggressor, that is true but Zimmerman's condition after the fight and existence of "yelling for help" lead me to believe that Martin let his anger get the best of him and crossed the line of self-defence at one point. Unfortunately we'll never know the whole truth, it's very well possible that Martin was absolutely right, I don't think it's a good idea to let people walk around carrying guns anyway.
    Based on the transcript, I wouldn't blame Martin. If those two talked or something, then Zimmerman could have said something to set Martin off, possibly in hopes that Zimmerman could shoot Martin in self defense. Reading the transcript just made me suspect Zimmerman even more. Maybe Martin would have gone too far, but considering Zimmerman was stalking him and had a gun, can't really blame him.

  11. #114
    ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つMOLLY༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member xi0's Avatar
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    Re: What is your opinion of the Trayvon Martin case and verdict?

    Quote Originally Posted by Miyagi View Post
    Well, if Zimmerman didn't have a gun and Martin did beat him up until he died or went comatose, I don't think it would be justified regardless of what Zimmerman said to him. I see your point, perhaps Zimmerman brandished his weapon and threatened Martin, perhaps he made racist remarks, that much is possible. It would give valid grounds to Martin to defend himself against an aggressor, that is true but Zimmerman's condition after the fight and existence of "yelling for help" lead me to believe that Martin let his anger get the best of him and crossed the line of self-defence at one point. Unfortunately we'll never know the whole truth, it's very well possible that Martin was absolutely right, I don't think it's a good idea to let people walk around carrying guns anyway.
    Let his anger get the best of him? Maybe, but he's a 17 year old being followed around by a weirdo...I don't know.

    That's exactly why people debated over who was actually yelling for help

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    I don't think a scenario in which zimmerman brandished his gun before being attack is probable at all. The scenario has the direct implication that zimmerman for no reason whatsoever took his gun out and the reaction martin had was to attack. Does it make sense for martin to have had such a reaction? It is true there are a few people out there who are actually badass enough to disarm an armed enemy and there are a few people out there without the training to do that but still are stupid enough to try however the fact is the vast majority of people will react in a pretty standard "OMG DON"T SHOOT ME!" while crying.... Taking in consideration how little we know about the situation assuming zimmerman brandished his gun and martin's reaction was to attack is just plain irrational and unjustifiable. The actual version accepted in the case (martin eventually approaching zimmerman and attacking him) is far more simple, it actually makes sense and while it still implies a great degree of stupidity it is still stupidity to a far lesser degree than attempting to beat up the guy brandishing a gun.
    This ties into my point above. Because we don't really know the sequence of events, we can't say for sure who the screams for help were coming from. Was it Zimmerman doing so when he obviously lost the fight, or was it Trayvon after the gun was pulled out? I'm not sure I remember if there was a clear conclusion on that front. But I feel like a guy with a loaded weapon wouldn't be screaming for help...who knows

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  13. #115
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    Re: What is your opinion of the Trayvon Martin case and verdict?

    Quote Originally Posted by xi0 View Post
    This ties into my point above. Because we don't really know the sequence of events, we can't say for sure who the screams for help were coming from. Was it Zimmerman doing so when he obviously lost the fight, or was it Trayvon after the gun was pulled out? I'm not sure I remember if there was a clear conclusion on that front. But I feel like a guy with a loaded weapon wouldn't be screaming for help...who knows
    Disagree with you here, you will rather hear this from me than from a Zimmerman supporter. The evidences seemed to point out that Zimmerman had injuries to his head. Where as Trayvon, beside the bullet wound, only has bruise on his fist. So it is very plausible that Zimmerman was the one calling out for help.

    But Zimmerman put himself in that situation.

  14. #116
    ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つMOLLY༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member xi0's Avatar
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    Re: What is your opinion of the Trayvon Martin case and verdict?

    Quote Originally Posted by weixiaobao View Post
    Disagree with you here, you will rather hear this from me than from a Zimmerman supporter. The evidences seemed to point out that Zimmerman had injuries to his head. Where as Trayvon, beside the bullet wound, only has bruise on his fist. So it is very plausible that Zimmerman was the one calling out for help.

    But Zimmerman put himself in that situation.
    There were no eyewitnesses, and the garbled recording from 911 calls are unclear. I'm not sure if it was established either way, and I'm not sure it really matters either. SYG allows someone to not even try to retreat before retaliating if they feel their life is threatened. But I'll repeat myself once again, one had a concealed, loaded weapon, and the other had Skittles and iced tea, like any other teenager would have. Seems simple to me.

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  16. #117
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    Re: What is your opinion of the Trayvon Martin case and verdict?

    Quote Originally Posted by xi0 View Post
    There were no eyewitnesses, and the garbled recording from 911 calls are unclear. I'm not sure if it was established either way, and I'm not sure it really matters either. SYG allows someone to not even try to retreat before retaliating if they feel their life is threatened. But I'll repeat myself once again, one had a concealed, loaded weapon, and the other had Skittles and iced tea, like any other teenager would have. Seems simple to me.
    Now, you are not thinking. It is official about the wounds. And that it is "possible" to call for help if you got pounded on your head to the cement. Saying that you can't imagine that scenario would be extremely bias. I am on your side in this case. But truth is truth. And don't "repeat yourself to me." I am know more a lot about this case that what you are repeating. Everything that you guys are discussing right now have been arguing over and over and over in the media and on youtube and on yahoo comments for months. Even down to the talking points.

    ---------- Post added at 08:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:49 PM ----------

    http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...encounter?lite

    ---------- Post added at 08:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:50 PM ----------

    http://www.mediaite.com/tv/medical-e...e-threatening/
    http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...e-gunshot.html

    ---------- Post added at 08:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:52 PM ----------

    ->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/06...martin-autopsy

  17. #118
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    Re: What is your opinion of the Trayvon Martin case and verdict?

    Excuse me? I think you're the one not thinking. Why are you getting defensive? I said nothing about the wounds, I was talking about the audio recording specifically. I never said anything about who initiated the fight, in fact, I have no reason to doubt that Martin beat up Zimmerman, but that doesn't mean he was the aggressor. I was wrong on one front - there apparently was an eyewitness who said he saw Martin on top of Zimmerman, he went to call 911, heard a gunshot and returned to Martin on the ground, dead. We don't have much of an idea about what transpired before they got into a fight, only what Zimmerman says and what Rachel Jenteal said about her phone call with Martin. He obviously got his ass handed to him, regardless of whether he physically/verbally started it or not.

    All my point was, that if you were Zimmerman, why would go out into the dark to follow someone with a loaded weapon? You obviously feel like you might need to use it. Why put yourself in that position in the first place? If you were Martin, what would you do if a stranger was following you around in a car at night? I have no idea!

    The expert witness in the first clip made his findings based on physical evidence, along with Zimmerman's side of things. He admitted to that. Just because you picked a fight, doesn't mean you'll win it. Maybe Martin felt his life was threatened, and that's why he beat the crap out of Zimmerman (SYG etc.). There is no other side to it because Martin is dead...like I said before. None of us really know. Sorry for "repeating" myself to you, but maybe you should actually pay attention to what I write...
    Last edited by xi0; August 30, 2013 at 10:56 PM.

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  19. #119
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity weixiaobao's Avatar
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    Re: What is your opinion of the Trayvon Martin case and verdict?

    Quote Originally Posted by xi0 View Post
    but maybe you should actually pay attention to what I write...
    Quote Quote:
    I'm not sure I remember if there was a clear conclusion on that front. But I feel like a guy with a loaded weapon wouldn't be screaming for help...who knows
    Why am I even bother to argue with what you wrote?? Because most of what you wrote is what I have already repeating myself. And or someone had already mentioned on this thread. But statement like what I quoted showed an extremely bias approach to the case. Should I point it out for you what wrong with it? Or do you think I am some sort of dumbass to post all those links about the wound as a reply to the quote above?? Or you can't figure out a scenario where Zimmerman could potentially call out for help? Or are you one of those people if I punch you and your head hit the ground couple time. But ya just man up and make no sound.

    ---------- Post added at 11:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:22 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by xi0 View Post
    Excuse me? I think you're the one not thinking.
    Quote a line in which prove that I am not thinking.

    Quote Quote:
    Why are you getting defensive? I said nothing about the wounds
    Because you are talking to me like I am some sort of an ignorant Zimmerman fan or something.

    Quote Quote:
    in fact, I have no reason to doubt that Martin beat up Zimmerman, but that doesn't mean he was the aggressor.
    Isn't this obvious for both statement? Quote me where I disagree with that.

    Quote Quote:
    All my point was, that if you were Zimmerman, why would go out into the dark to follow someone with a loaded weapon? You obviously feel like you might need to use it. Why put yourself in that position in the first place? If you were Martin, what would you do if a stranger was following you around in a car at night? I have no idea!
    Hmm, for the first question, I am wonder, are you living in the USA and are you knowledge of this crazy gun culture we are living in. For you to ask that question is quite weird. Can you not come up with an answer to your own question?? I could think of many reasons why Zimmerman is in that situation (especially regarding of the back story of this case). The controversy here is that whether it is stupid or not. Then there are the second question, what do you think my answer is. "I have no idea." Is that mocking me or what?

    Quote Quote:
    Just because you picked a fight, doesn't mean you'll win it. Maybe Martin felt his life was threatened, and that's why he beat the crap out of Zimmerman (SYG etc.).
    Isn't this also obvious?

    Quote Quote:
    There is no other side to it because Martin is dead...like I said before. None of us really know. Sorry for "repeating" myself to you, but maybe you should actually pay attention to what I write...
    No you haven't reading my post hence you didn't understand what I meant by the dead can't talk. And then you repeat with Martin is dead and tell me I should pay attention to what you wrote. >____<

  20. #120
    ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つMOLLY༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member xi0's Avatar
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    Re: What is your opinion of the Trayvon Martin case and verdict?

    Quote Originally Posted by weixiaobao View Post
    Why am I even bother to argue with what you wrote?? Because most of what you wrote is what I have already repeating myself. And or someone had already mentioned on this thread. But statement like what I quoted showed an extremely bias approach to the case. Should I point it out for you what wrong with it? Or do you think I am some sort of dumbass to post all those links about the wound as a reply to the quote above?? Or you can't figure out a scenario where Zimmerman could potentially call out for help? Or are you one of those people if I punch you and your head hit the ground couple time. But ya just man up and make no sound.
    You've completely missed my point. The first quote was about the cries for help heard in 911 calls. That's what the conclusion was about. Not who received injuries first...

    How am I showing extreme bias when we're both on the same side of this argument?




    Quote Originally Posted by Me
    But I feel like a guy with a loaded weapon wouldn't be screaming for help...who knows
    I did not mean to imply that Zimmerman would be incapable of crying for help, I meant that I didn't understand why a guy, who obviously had an upper-hand in any sort of physical altercation by having a gun, would put himself in that position in the first place. It not only makes me question his motivation, it makes me question his sanity.

    Are we clear now?

    ---------- Post added at 12:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:38 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by weixiaobao View Post
    Because you are talking to me like I am some sort of an ignorant Zimmerman fan or something.
    What...no I'm not

    Stop making accusations over misunderstandings...

    Quote Originally Posted by weixiaobao View Post
    Hmm, for the first question, I am wonder, are you living in the USA and are you knowledge of this crazy gun culture we are living in. For you to ask that question is quite weird. Can you not come up with an answer to your own question?? I could think of many reasons why Zimmerman is in that situation (especially regarding of the back story of this case). The controversy here is that whether it is stupid or not. Then there are the second question, what do you think my answer is. "I have no idea." Is that mocking me or what?
    I am from and live on the East Coast. I am not a part of any crazy gun culture. I don't own a gun, my family has never had a gun in the house since I was born. My father would hunt when he was a kid and young adult, but it wasn't a hobby of his since I've been alive. There was a school shooting at my alma mater on the first day of school last year, I am not a gun advocate.

    There is no mocking you...they're rhetorical questions and I wasn't asking you specifically. It was merely to demonstrate and try to understand what kind of mindset both sides had that night. Nothing else...
    Last edited by xi0; August 30, 2013 at 11:49 PM.

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