Not a member? Register now!
Announcements
Manga returns! Catch up with the details. Enjoy downloading, translating, and scanlating manga HERE legally!
Like us on Facebook, follow us on Twitter! Celebrate another year with MH and read our yearbook.
Manga News: Check out this week's new manga (8/25/14 - 8/31/14).
Forum News: Visit new sections for Nisekoi and Kingdom!
Translations: One Piece 757 by cnet128 , Bleach 593 by cnet128 , Gintama 507 (2)
New Reply
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 17

Thread: Extrapolating Isshin's, Shunsui's and Ukitake's bankai

  1. #1
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Country
    France
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    97
    Post Thanks / Like

    Extrapolating Isshin's, Shunsui's and Ukitake's bankai

    - Shunsui :
    The theme seems to be a duality between childish, nice guy behaviour (his usual apparent personality, and the first half of the release chant : "the petal storm swirls, the flower god sings") and a darker side (his ruthlessness in combat, the second part of the release chant : "the dark storm rages, the sky demon smirks" - which by the way is officially the most badass chant of all Bleach). Also Ukitake said that his bankai is something that shouldn't be used when so many people are around. That could be meant either that it has a risk of friendly fire, or that it has "tricks" that shouldn't be revealed unless absolutely necessary.

    So my guess is this : in his bankai, there are two main modes : "god flower" and "sky demon". By default he is in "god flower" mode, with petty tricks and mainly defensive/immobilization techniques (I'm thinking flower clones, blinding your opponent...). After a while, or specific requirement are met, he gains the possibility of switching to murderous "sky demon" mode, and then unlocks a very destructive technique.


    - Ukitake :
    His theme is sea and lightning, if his release chant is any indication : "All the waves are my shield, the thunder is my sword". It's easier to make a guess : his abilities are divided among defensive and water-based (bam, you're in whirlpool and can't move, this type of thing) and offensive and lightning-based (not very original). I'm thinking the synergy between him and Shunsui, mentionned by Yamamoto, might be because his powers are reliable and complete, and he can support effectively Shunsui until his more capricious zanpakuto decides to get useful...

    - Isshin :
    We know his powers are fire-based, and his bankai is a burden on his body. We also know he can apparently use his blood to breath fire in shikai... And he has a version of Getsuga Tenshou which appear to be fire rather than a slash of pure reiatsu.

    Given what we have seen of Old Man Genocide's bankai, it's hard to come up with an idea for a fire type zanpakuto which does not scream "sorry I'm not awesome as Zanko no Tachi". Especially since it was so polyvalent. So I've got nothing more than he kind of burns up his blood to raise his power, kind of like Keikoku in Samurai Deeper Kyo (sorry about the aweful reference). That, and he can shoot fireballs.

    What are your thoughts ?

  2. Like 1 Member(s) likes this post
  3. #2
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member devstauk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Deadman Wonderland
    Country
    United Kingdom
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    732
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Extrapolating Isshin's, Shunsui's and Ukitake's bankai

    My 1st thought is. we dont know Isshin's Zan is fire based all we know is he said burn thats it.......
    Spoiler show

  4. Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked this post
  5. #3
    Banned 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Country
    Poland
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,199
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Extrapolating Isshin's, Shunsui's and Ukitake's bankai

    Quote Originally Posted by devstauk View Post
    My 1st thought is. we dont know Isshin's Zan is fire based all we know is he said burn thats it.......
    I guess you'd need colours to accept, that those ARE flames. In battle with Aizen he used Getsuga from flames, in this battle he showed his Zanpakuto is FIRE-based. If not, tell me what are those:

    http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/531/18
    http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/532/9
    http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/532/11
    http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/532/13
    http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/531/19

    And do you know, that release command is connected to Zanpakuto's ability? "All things in the universe, turn to ashes"- Ryujin jakka. "Crush"- Gegetsuburi. "Scatter"- Senbonzakura Kageyoshi. "Extend"- Hozukimaru. "Reign over the frosted heavens"- Hyorinmaru. "Shoot" Shinsou. "Dance" Sode No Shirayuki. "Sting all enemies to death"- Suzumebachi.

    By the way, Isshin must be amazing. He can make his zanpakuto literally burn, but without flames. And the whooole blade is covered with... something, those are not flames, right? The blade is in the center, so it is a blade, that burns. But there are no flames, nope. And it's not flame, that burns White's arm next to Masaki. It's not flame, that makes smoke. It's... something else. And I hope you can say WHAT it is.

    Oh, and yeah, it IS reiatsu. Yamaji's reiatsu was taking form of a flame, so is Isshin's. If you want to tell me, that reiatsu can burn on Hollow's arm as in one panel I showed, I'd be grateful. You know what is difference between flame and reiatsu? Flames is always shown to float freely, changing direction. If you want to say Isshin's zanpakuto isn't fire based, then prove it, show some panels, where it CAN'T be fire.
    Last edited by Duniak; July 16, 2013 at 08:39 PM.

  6. Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked this post
    Like 1 Member(s) likes this post
  7. #4
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Jabman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Country
    Canada
    Age
    24
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    372
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Extrapolating Isshin's, Shunsui's and Ukitake's bankai

    Quote Originally Posted by devstauk View Post
    My 1st thought is. we dont know Isshin's Zan is fire based all we know is he said burn thats it.......
    You want Kubo to shout it while making love to you? How dense are you?
    you should really face/palm repeatedly until some sense is knocked in there.

    PS, just tryn' to be funny, don't mean to insult you.


    As for Isshin. When we were told it's a hindrance on his body I imagined something similar to Ikakku's bankai but fire-y. However glougloubarbak's definition of it seems pretty interesting.
    Last edited by Jabman; July 16, 2013 at 09:13 PM.

  8. #5
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member devstauk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Deadman Wonderland
    Country
    United Kingdom
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    732
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Extrapolating Isshin's, Shunsui's and Ukitake's bankai

    Spoiler show


    LMAO, i'll say it again NOT 1 single confirmation, The only page you have shown there, that could be fire is the one with Isshin is spitting his blood out, and even that has nothing to do with his Zan. The rest can quite as easily be Reishi and until we fully see Isshin in action (bankai and all) no one can truly confirm that his Zan is fire based.
    Spoiler show

  9. Like 1 Member(s) likes this post
  10. #6
    Banned 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Country
    Poland
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,199
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Extrapolating Isshin's, Shunsui's and Ukitake's bankai

    Quote Originally Posted by devstauk View Post

    LMAO, i'll say it again NOT 1 single confirmation, The only page you have shown there, that could be fire is the one with Isshin is spitting his blood out, and even that has nothing to do with his Zan. The rest can quite as easily be Reishi and until we fully see Isshin in action (bankai and all) no one can truly confirm that his Zan is fire based.
    "Can be quite as easily reishi". Ridicoulous, and you know it. Everything is reishi. Yamaji's flames were reishi too. Your argument is simply invalid. The only one who actually shoots pure reiatsu is Ichigo and Kenpachi. And it looks DIFFERENT. ENTIRELY different. Ichigo is basically making a GT from Cero, Kenpachi can't control his reiatsu.

    You ignored the part about release command, as you couldn't possible counter that. You ignored the part about White's arm being burned and creating smoke. You said Isshin's attack could be flames. That's funny. You know why? Becase "flame" there looks exactly like in FKKT and in every other panel. If Zanpakuto's attack is shooting huge flames using his blood, with Zanpakuto being in a center of a technique then ZANPAKUTO IS FIRE-BASED. And you really think, that Isshin is such a noob, that he has REISHI surrounding his blade all the time? Talk about shitty reiatsu control... You're basically saying, that his blade is burning with reishi, right? xD You're funny, I gotta tell you that. Ignorant, but funny. His sword is burning. But not with flames. With reishi, that can't burn, just exist. It even burned some shit that was flying over Isshin's sword. Reishi burned it, right?

    Unless Aizen shouts "OMFG THOSE ARE NICE FLAMES" you won't admit being wrong. Kubo really tries to show how flame is different than reiatsu, but people like you prefer to ignore it. Or rather, you prefer to be in denial and say, that panels that I base my point on are not enough. But you can't counter that, you can't prove me wrong, you started the topic, I showed you panels. Damn, that's the moment where Buzz should come in.


    @Edit:

    One more thing. About that "technique" you considered fire-based. (But no, Zanpakuto isn't clad in fire, right?). I think I have to tell you how this technique works.

    1. Isshin has to take some of his blood.
    2. He licks it.
    3. He puts his sword (burning) in front of him, horizontally.
    4. He spits his blood ON a sword.
    5. His blood catches on fire.
    6. Technique is being fired.

    So by saying, that it could be FIRE, you proved me right in every panel and made your point completely wrong. By the way, Shinigami's blood contain their reiatsu, as every part of his spiritual body. So if blood can become fire, then reiatsu in that blood can become fire. So yup, Engetsu is fire-based. I guess the only purpose of that technique is too utilize reiatsu that is being spilled. Putting sheer reiatsu on a blade, that is burning makes it catch fire, thus strengthening technique with reiatsu from blood.

    If you want to discuss it further, show some panels. I won't answer your "That may be reishi" comments. Everything is reishi. Noone said those are NOT reishi. But that reishi manifests itself as flame.
    Last edited by Duniak; July 16, 2013 at 10:46 PM.

  11. #7
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Zeta42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Country
    Ukraine
    Age
    23
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    508
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Extrapolating Isshin's, Shunsui's and Ukitake's bankai

    I think Isshin's bankai has something to do with his blood, which is why he can't use it when he is heavily bleeding.

  12. #8
    Banned 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Country
    Poland
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,199
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Extrapolating Isshin's, Shunsui's and Ukitake's bankai

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeta42 View Post
    I think Isshin's bankai has something to do with his blood, which is why he can't use it when he is heavily bleeding.
    Aizen said, that his bankai puts strain on his body, so I don't think blood is entirely the case. Isshin also wanted just to patch his wound up.

    Well, if he was cloaked in fire it'd hurt a damn lot.

  13. #9
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity jaymizzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    I had a smaller one but i guess i left it at home
    Country
    United Kingdom
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,764
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Extrapolating Isshin's, Shunsui's and Ukitake's bankai

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    Aizen said, that his bankai puts strain on his body, so I don't think blood is entirely the case. Isshin also wanted just to patch his wound up.

    Well, if he was cloaked in fire it'd hurt a damn lot.
    I was always under the impression that Zanpaktou abilities dont hurt the user (for example flames or ice). It would actually make sense for his Bankai to be related to his blood in some way.
    "Man hands misery onto man" - Philip Larkin

  14. #10
    Banned 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Country
    Poland
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,199
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Extrapolating Isshin's, Shunsui's and Ukitake's bankai

    Quote Originally Posted by jaymizzo View Post
    I was always under the impression that Zanpaktou abilities dont hurt the user (for example flames or ice). It would actually make sense for his Bankai to be related to his blood in some way.
    The flame maybe doesn't, heat from it can :P

  15. #11
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member devstauk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Deadman Wonderland
    Country
    United Kingdom
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    732
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Extrapolating Isshin's, Shunsui's and Ukitake's bankai

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    The flame maybe doesn't, heat from it can :P
    Dude please, just no, remember the picture of yama in flames back 1000years ago? He wasn't effected by it, and the reason for that is because it was his reiatsu creating the flame so essentially his Reiatsu is his being and spirit so it wouldn't cause any effect other then fatigue.

    If Isshin has the same 'flame-cloak' ability like Yama then it would work the same.

    I was under the same assumption as Jaymizzo, and its a valid assume to.
    Spoiler show

  16. #12
    Banned 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Country
    Poland
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,199
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Extrapolating Isshin's, Shunsui's and Ukitake's bankai

    Quote Originally Posted by devstauk View Post
    Dude please, just no, remember the picture of yama in flames back 1000years ago? He wasn't effected by it, and the reason for that is because it was his reiatsu creating the flame so essentially his Reiatsu is his being and spirit so it wouldn't cause any effect other then fatigue.
    Damn, I can't even use sarcasm and joke at the end of my post. But something good came out of it. You understood basis of Shinigamis powers, reiatsu taking different forms. It's funny how you're basically denying everything you said earlier and seem to be ok with it.

  17. #13
    Banned 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Country
    Poland
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,199
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Extrapolating Isshin's, Shunsui's and Ukitake's bankai

    Quote Originally Posted by devstauk View Post
    You obviously have some kind of short term memory or some kind idiotic streak. Please do show me these denials. I'd love for you to be able to show me any kind of denial in any of my posts. I do wish some you guys on this forum can actually hold an argument without automatically putting words in others mouths its absolutely laughable.

    But what you are implying is that anyone with extremely high Reiatsu essentially has a fire type zan.

    Oh look did you see what i did there, the words being put in someones mouth
    Yeah, you should read my post about how Isshin's technique works. You said, that reiatsu takes different forms. So his blood catching on fire means only one thing.

  18. #14
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member devstauk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Deadman Wonderland
    Country
    United Kingdom
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    732
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Extrapolating Isshin's, Shunsui's and Ukitake's bankai

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    Yeah, you should read my post about how Isshin's technique works. You said, that reiatsu takes different forms. So his blood catching on fire means only one thing.
    he can use kido with out saying the words, yes i know
    Spoiler show

  19. #15
    Banned 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Country
    Poland
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,199
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Extrapolating Isshin's, Shunsui's and Ukitake's bankai

    Quote Originally Posted by devstauk View Post
    he can use kido with out saying the words, yes i know
    I don't know if we've seen Kido being shot without saying at least number of technique. You can skip incantation. Not the name, your point is wrong and based on tons of assumptions, because you can't approve Engetsu being fire-based. Why? Keep trying to save your face. It doesn't matter. You already abandoned all the points you made so far and you keep going with new baseless theories. Just stop, for your own sake.

    Yup, so he used unknown Kido, which name he didn't mention and used his blood, because he wasn't skilled enough to with sheer reiatsu? Not mentioning the fact, that we've never seen Kido that is fire-based. Hell, I don't think we saw Kido being elemental-based. (We did saw something like a lightning, which is highly condensed reiatsu, I don't think it's actual lightning) Kido is just REIATSU. But lookie there, you've just found first one! And who used it? Isshin, who showed us next to nothing in Kido. Urahara didn't use those. Tessai didn't. Hachigen didn't. Isshin did it.

    Yup, that makes more sense then using fire-technique with a Zanpakuto, that is clad in fire and is burning, but it's not fire, that can make blood IGNITE while NOT being a flame. And much more sense than Isshin's zanpakuto being fire based, as it's burning, ignites things, burns things, looks like flame and it's release command, that suggests Shikai's ability is BURN, right?
    Last edited by Duniak; July 19, 2013 at 11:17 PM.

New Reply
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts