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Translations: Gintama 515 (2)
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Thread: Need Help Translating a Few Difficult Sentences

  1. #1
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner
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    Need Help Translating a Few Difficult Sentences

    Hey there. I'm currently working on re-translating the sections of Grandia II with dialog for an undub project I'm working on (http://www.isans.net/). Things have finally started to move smoothly after being hung up for quite a while, but I currently need a little help with my translation. For the most part I think I've been able to do a competent job with what I've done, but there are some lines here that I'm having some trouble figuring out.

    The general context of these lines is that Roan (one of the main characters) is giving a speech to his people after assuming the position of king from his father. He is talking no longer hiding from his peoples' past as servants of Valmar (the main villain). These sections of text all occur one after the other in one of the games cutscenes.

    Quote Quote:
    我らが 恥じて 隠してきたことは
    誤解を産み出しただけで なんの夢も未来も
    もたらしはしませんでした
    Original translation: We once hid in shame, and that kept us from dreaming of a better future. A future we could work towards, together.
    My translation: Our being ashamed and hiding, only produced misunderstanding. It did not bring about our dreams or a better future.
    Notes: I'm pretty sure my translation is more accurate, but I'm not sure that it couldn't be better.

    Quote Quote:
    これからは そんな過去に振り回されることなく
    新しい誇りを 見つけて出し
    それに向かって生きていきましよう
    Original translation: But our past shall control us no longer as we work with this new sense of pride to achieve our goals.
    My translation: ???
    Notes: This one has me pretty confused because I'm not sure about the intended meaning of "振り回される". Or "向かって生きていきましよう" for that matter. This is the main thing that caused me to make this post.

    Quote Quote:
    我らの先祖が 犯した過ちを 忘れなためにも
    今 再び 国旗を掲げます
    Original translation: I shall now raise the flag again so that we do not forget the mistakes of our ancestors.
    My translation: So that we never forget our ancestor's mistakes, we'll now fly our country's flag.
    Notes: No issues here. I'm just including this line for additional context.

  2. #2
    Intl Translator 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member Sohma Riku's Avatar
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    Re: Need Help Translating a Few Difficult Sentences

    Quote Quote:
    我らが 恥じて 隠してきたことは
    誤解を産み出しただけで なんの夢も未来も
    もたらしはしませんでした
    I think the first half of your translation sounds pretty weird actually, even though it's somewhat accurate.

    恥じて 隠してきたこと = Hiding in shame
    誤解を産み出しただけで = by only causing misunderstandings
    なんの夢も未来も もたらしはしませんでした = doesn't bring any dreams or future.
    My translation: "We once hid in shame, but it only caused misunderstandings. It didn't bring us any dreams or future."

    Quote Quote:
    これからは そんな過去に振り回されることなく
    新しい誇りを 見つけて出し
    それに向かって生きていきましよう
    これからは = from here on
    そんな過去に振り回されることなく = without being swayed by that future
    新しい誇りを 見つけて出し = find a new pride and bring it out
    それに向かって生きていきましよう = Let's live towards that
    My translation: Let's break free from that past and live (on) to find a new pride.

    Quote Quote:
    我らの先祖が 犯した過ちを 忘れなためにも
    今 再び 国旗を掲げます
    Not much wrong with your translation, but I wonder about the "fly our country's flag" part. Especially the "fly" bit. Unless they are sailing a ship, I wouldn't use "fly".

    我らの先祖が 犯した過ちを 忘れなためにも = Also to make sure we never forget our ancestor's mistakes
    今 再び 国旗を掲げます: We'll raise/display/sail under/ put up/hang out/ hoist our national flag once more now
    My translation: Right now, to make sure we'll never forget our ancestor's mistakes, we'll raise our national flag once more!

    Or something like that. There's a lot of variations possible here I guess... but of all possibility, I wouldn't use "fly".

    ----
    I hope that gives you a general idea of the meaning of each sentence.

  3. #3
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner
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    Re: Need Help Translating a Few Difficult Sentences

    Quote Originally Posted by Sohma Riku View Post
    I think the first half of your translation sounds pretty weird actually, even though it's somewhat accurate.

    恥じて 隠してきたこと = Hiding in shame
    誤解を産み出しただけで = by only causing misunderstandings
    なんの夢も未来も もたらしはしませんでした = doesn't bring any dreams or future.
    My translation: "We once hid in shame, but it only caused misunderstandings. It didn't bring us any dreams or future."
    Regarding the first part sounding weird, keep in mind this is a speech by a king. I wanted it to sound as eloquent as possible while staying within the bounds of being accurate. That being said, I'm going to make one very minor adjustment: "Our being ashamed and hiding, only produced misunderstandings. It did not bring about our dreams or a better future." Also, I felt like I needed to have future qualified by "better" because to me at least, saying "bring us a future" doesn't mean anything. In Japanese I believe "未来" has a positive connotation, whereas in English "future" does not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sohma Riku View Post
    これからは = from here on
    そんな過去に振り回されることなく = without being swayed by that future
    You meant past, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sohma Riku View Post
    新しい誇りを 見つけて出し = find a new pride and bring it out
    それに向かって生きていきましよう = Let's live towards that
    My translation: Let's break free from that past and live (on) to find a new pride.
    Ok, that makes sense. I had never heard the phrase "振り回される" before and I wasn't sure what meaning was appropriate. Here are the meanings I was looking at:
    Quote Quote:
    1: to wield; to brandish; to flourish; to wave (about); to swing;
    2: to display (one's knowledge); to show off;
    3: to abuse (one's power);
    4: to manipulate someone
    So I guess in this case the intended meaning was the fourth, in passive form due to being modified by "される", correct? I think I'm going to modify your translation a bit to keep in line with the eloquent speech pattern I'm going for, so here is what I'm going to use: "Let us no longer yield to our past, but rather live to find a new sense of pride."

    Quote Originally Posted by Sohma Riku View Post
    Not much wrong with your translation, but I wonder about the "fly our country's flag" part. Especially the "fly" bit. Unless they are sailing a ship, I wouldn't use "fly".

    我らの先祖が 犯した過ちを 忘れなためにも = Also to make sure we never forget our ancestor's mistakes
    今 再び 国旗を掲げます: We'll raise/display/sail under/ put up/hang out/ hoist our national flag once more now
    My translation: Right now, to make sure we'll never forget our ancestor's mistakes, we'll raise our national flag once more!

    Or something like that. There's a lot of variations possible here I guess... but of all possibility, I wouldn't use "fly".
    Ok, so I'm going to change my translation to: "So that we never forget the mistakes of our ancestors, we'll now raise our country's flag once more!." I can't move the translation of "今" to the beginning, because Grandia games display text during cut-scenes in sync with the audio. and in this case a dramatic pause occurs when Roan says "今". This means I need to have the text that appears when he says "今" match what he's saying. I've had to make some compromises to work around this issue, but for the most part I try to reword my translations to sync up with the Japanese text, as long as it doesn't sound too weird.

    By the way, given the fact the translations I ended up with here aren't really that far off from the original translation from the dubbed version of the game, it may lead you to the conclusion that I'm nitpicking by re-translating everything from scratch. However, I can assure you there are a good number of cases where the original translation was notably inaccurate, or just plain didn't say the same thing as the Japanese version did.

    Anyway, thanks for your help.

  4. #4
    Intl Translator 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member Sohma Riku's Avatar
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    Re: Need Help Translating a Few Difficult Sentences

    Quote Quote:
    Regarding the first part sounding weird, keep in mind this is a speech by a king. I wanted it to sound as eloquent as possible while staying within the bounds of being accurate. That being said, I'm going to make one very minor adjustment: "Our being ashamed and hiding, only produced misunderstandings. It did not bring about our dreams or a better future." Also, I felt like I needed to have future qualified by "better" because to me at least, saying "bring us a future" doesn't mean anything. In Japanese I believe "未来" has a positive connotation, whereas in English "future" does not.
    I know, but still "Our being ashamed and hiding" sounds grammatically incorrect to me. Well, I'm not an English native, so maybe that's just me. ^-^

    Quote Quote:
    You meant past, right?
    Ah yes, my mother was nagging I had to hurry up, because she wanted to do some grocery shopping. (Since she can't drive the car anymore due to illness, I'm pretty much her personal chauffeur.) So, trying to hurry up, a little mistake slipped in. ^-^ It meant "past" indeed.

    Quote Quote:
    So I guess in this case the intended meaning was the fourth, in passive form due to being modified by "される", correct? I think I'm going to modify your translation a bit to keep in line with the eloquent speech pattern I'm going for, so here is what I'm going to use: "Let us no longer yield to our past, but rather live to find a new sense of pride."
    I guess number 3 and 4 are more or less the same to me, but... My dictionary says that "振り回される" means:
    Quote Quote:
    be [turned [twisted] around sb's (little) finger; be at the mercy of sb; be made a fool of <<by sb>>
    Your translation sounds good. I was in a bit of a hurry, so I didn't really try to make it sound eloquent. Just trying to show the meaning. ^-^

    Quote Quote:
    Ok, so I'm going to change my translation to: "So that we never forget the mistakes of our ancestors, we'll now raise our country's flag once more!." I can't move the translation of "今" to the beginning, because Grandia games display text during cut-scenes in sync with the audio. and in this case a dramatic pause occurs when Roan says "今". This means I need to have the text that appears when he says "今" match what he's saying. I've had to make some compromises to work around this issue, but for the most part I try to reword my translations to sync up with the Japanese text, as long as it doesn't sound too weird.
    Oh, I see... we'll it doesn't really matter where you put the now. As long as it's there in a grammatically correct place. ^-^

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    Re: Need Help Translating a Few Difficult Sentences

    Quote Originally Posted by Sohma Riku View Post
    I know, but still "Our being ashamed and hiding" sounds grammatically incorrect to me. Well, I'm not an English native, so maybe that's just me. ^-^
    I'm a native speaker (though not an English major ^^ and it sounds all right to me. In English grammar, I believe the use of a possessive pronoun, being/doing/going/etc., followed by the object of the verb, has a few important purposes, one of which is to allow you to use an action being done by something as the subject of a sentence.

  6. #6
    ならぬことはならぬ 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member serizawa's Avatar
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    Re: Need Help Translating a Few Difficult Sentences

    Quote Originally Posted by Xzyx987X View Post
    "Our being ashamed and hiding, only produced misunderstandings. It did not bring about our dreams or a better future."
    "Let us no longer yield to our past, but rather live to find a new sense of pride."
    "So that we never forget the mistakes of our ancestors, we'll now raise our country's flag once more!"
    Just dropping by to say that those three translations seem really good to me.
    "For we are here to bless this world with our love, wisdom and noble character."

  7. #7
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member Aarowaim's Avatar
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    Re: Need Help Translating a Few Difficult Sentences

    The first sentence can be improved. We rarely ever use that format of possessive. I only see it in excessively formal discussion. Anyways, a much more 'natural' sounding translation would be by using the word 'by'.

    Sentence 1: "By hiding in shame, we only created misunderstanding. It did not give us dreams or hope."
    - Note that 'future' in this case is used in reference to 'hope for a future'; a future that did not exist because they hid. Although the previous translation is perfectly fine grammatically, it does sound somewhat clunky because it doesn't follow the natural way that sentences are formed in English.
    - If you want it to sound even more natural, the first sentence would move the dependent clause behind the independent clause, creating "We only created misunderstandings by hiding in shame..."

    Aside from the first sentence, the remainder is just so you can get an idea of the grammar behind the translation. As such, I do not think that any further changes are necessary.

    Sentence 2: "We will no longer be controlled by the past. We will find new pride. We will live towards that purpose."
    -This one is indeed using the sense of being manipulated and swung by the past. Strictly speaking, 振り回す means literally 'to swing a weapon around'. Thus, you get the abstract meanings of 'being swung around like a tool (manipulated/controlled)', 'abusing power by using it wherever you'd like', and 'to show off (by flailing your sword/skill around)'. In English, anything involving being controlled by the past will do just fine.
    - Also, the format of this is mostly in the sense of a speech to people. By very nature, as is shown grammatically in each sentence, they tie loosely into each other but can stand alone as separate sentences. Like many inspirational speeches, it is done in an impromptu format, with powerful sentences following one after the other. A continuous pounding of "WE WILL", and "WE CAN DO THIS". Also, to speak grammatically, a verb that ends in 'i' is in it's nominal form; it is literally a noun. Then you can throw in ます to make the polite form. An adjective that ends in ~く is in its adverb form, so it loosely connects to the next sentence (or verb); e.g, 'by being cute, she had many suitors.'

    Sentence 3: "And to make sure we never forget the mistakes of our ancestors, we will now, once again, hoist the flag!"
    - Not much to really mention here. An excellent job proofreading the first time around ^_^. Hopefully you have a solution for the audio syncing.

    P.S.
    Hmm, this post is a little bit late to the gate. Sorry about that. Either way, you have my green light.
    There is a fine line between bad and good, and an even finer line between good and great.
    Even the most impossible dreams can become possible with time.

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