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Translations: Gintama 510 (2)
Oda has really handled this tournament poorly. In fact, it’s become less of a tournament, and more of a poorly disguised plot device decorated with throwaway characters, and considering the amount of breaks One Piece has nowadays, Oda should really stop wasting chapters on this mess.
Block C especially is really irritating me with all the throwaway characters. Block B is guilty of throwaway characters, sure, but at least we didn’t actually know for sure who was going to win, so introducing all these characters added an element of mystery. However, with Block C, we know Luffy’s going to win, so introducing all these new characters - of which only maybe one or two we’ll see again - is just needlessly prolonging not only the tournament, but the entire arc.
I wish Oda wold just show us the Luffy vs. Chinjao fight that everyone wants to see, spend a few chapters on Block D, and then get on with the rest of the Dressrosa arc.
How do you know that? Have you read the chapters of the next years already?
Oh, and BTW: This isn't a tournament arc. The tournament is only one of three plotlines. It's completely fine if he doesn't stretch it out too much.
As you both correctly point out that this isn't a tournament. By that I meant not like the sort of tournament in Dragon Ball. By that I meant, who is the ultimate winner of the tournament isn't the goal of this arc. Doflamingo had pointed out even before this arc began that the whole tournament was meant as a distraction to Luffy.
So now, I will answer the criticisms.
-Pacing.... Let's talk about the pacing first. He didn't show block A. Block B was over in couple of chapters (2 chapters of actual fighting). Block C had only 1 chapter so far of actual fighting. It may take overall of 3 chapters, 1 more than block B. Block D may/may not be summarize. Lastly the tournament may be interrupted and not finished at all. Further more, the anime could use to expand on these characters a bit instead of the stupid crowds cheering fillers.
-As a plot device? You said that it was poorly done. As I pointed out that it was meant as a distraction to Luffy. Using the tournament, Oda had shown many things. For example, the infiltration of the marines. The fact that Doflamingo had draw in an elite crowds for an unknown reason. Bellamy's redemption. The position of the supernovas in the New World became clearer (via Cavendish). The back story behind that kingdom became clearer with Rebecca, Ricky, and the toy soldier. Blackbeard's right hand man shown up. Does this have to do with the devil fruit hunt??? Also beg the question, is there other Yonkou's representatives remain in the crowds???
-As a plot device to the overall story, as we entered the New World we learned about the movement of the Black Beard's pirates (trying to capture strong DF). Kaidou is in league with Doflamingo. And Big Mam is being challenged by the supernovas. Plus the Marines are now reinforced their strength with the draft. With the blank century, and the arm race, it is inevitable that there will be a major conflict that involved many nation states. So what is a better way to show case some of those countries right now. I meant one of the reason why I didn't like the Marineford arc early on is because so many characters appear so suddenly and fade into the background. But because of the pacing of that arc demand, not all characters should have been highlight (which is a correct move on Oda's part). Someone pointed out that these people may joined Luffy to fight against Doflamingo. That maybe true for some characters, but who know some of them maybe bride into fighting the strawhats. And is this arc going to end with Doflamingo??? I meant a lot of things happened that does fell outside of a normal storyline. I meant didn't the Supernovas weren't the enemies in the arc that they were introduced. Kuma wipe the floor with the strawhats on ThrillerBark even though it seemed it would end with Moriah. And Franky wasn't the big bad during the Water 7 Arc. The Blackbeard's representative bothered me quite a bit here. And where is Kaido's henchmen?
-As a plot device, personal growth, this element of this arc does put a lot of thing into perspective like haki, supernovas, fishmen karate, over 500 million berries, or the right hand man of a Yonkou. Luffy, thus far, had not yet been challenged to push himself improve. Would he being force to show more of his growth here like his battle against Blueno??
-Fodder characters- They are definitely necessary to put some characters into perspective. And they maybe involved later on. Well, Blueno was a random bartender. Did you care for him then??? Hachi was just an idiot octopus that was just a random henchman for Zoro to kick his ass. Did you care for him then?? People like Ricky and Blue Gilly were really high light for a reason. Like wise, I think the Funk bro and Ideo maybe more than they appear to be.
This as you know is one element of this arc. And you have no idea if the tournament even play out entirely and or interrupted by some unforeseen thing. Did you expect Ace to die?? Did you expect Kuma completely beat the strawhats?? Did you expect Luffy's one punch knock out Bellamy??? Did you expect Crocodile seemingly kill Luffy?? Did you expect Franky was to join the Strawhats??
I completely disagree with you on all levels! I think he is doing a splendid job! It gives us insight to the New World, and is a great warm-up before Luffy goes against even bigger people then doffy or people in the tournament. Plus, it'll boost the strawhats reputation.
Well, I hated how the tournament was handled at the start however overall I actually started enjoying it this fight. I guess for me the difference was when there were a billion plot threads and none of them seemed to be going anywhere. I mean, at one point we had an individual plot thread for luffy, zoro, sanji, kinemon, franky, the guys at the boat and the guys at the exchange. Right now it seems at least sanji's side was solved and joined with kinemon and franky and it seems like zoro and the guys at the exchange are meeting soon thanks to the dwarfs. So all that is left is for luffy... And to be honest I do think his round is interesting overall. It seems there are quite a few strong people there and I want to see how luffy fared against a legendary pirate worth over 500 mil.
dont like it after 700 ...too confusing too tiring
That said the tournament has been really interesting for me, I don't need to see characters with big names all the time, and I'm still quite impressed with these tournament entries, I don't consider them fodder just because we haven't seen them before and because luffy will likely defeat them all, he will probably defeat every enemy eventually, doesn't mean I don't want to see it happen. Plus, wtf is burgess' role in this?! Seriously, I really don't think he will just go home without doing anything else. The tournament might have far-reaching consequences. Don't underestimate one piece, they might give us some legendary fights or at least some really good ones, and you might think this beats the tournaments in every other manga in the end.
Last edited by winterwyrm; July 19, 2013 at 07:29 PM.
I'm in the camp that wasn't fond of it at first, but I have been enjoying the chapters lately. Anything regarding pacing I just put that to the fact that Oda's generally a slow paced story teller (even if he himself doesn't think so) so that really hasn't bothered me, and it helped that we had a look as to what the other groups were doing.
personally, I think that one of fujitora's meteorites will destroy the arena in the middle of Block D. Then we will see everything in chaos.
As for the anime we all know what it did from the war which had a similar pacing and storytelling.
Indeed the war was proof to me that it is not the best idea to involved many new character at the same time in term of storytelling. That's why I don't think we need to see those characters again in another big battle (especially since most of them have been defeated quite easily). Oda may make one reappear later but not all of them.Quote:
Well if the tournament was interrupted, I would be the last to complain. But then it would have been even be more a waste of time. At least I would like to see some nice fights but so far Oda has reused the cameo fight style from the war which is far from thrilling.Quote:
This tournament is a waste only if oda wants to show abilities, since I'm sure if he went straight to fights without the tournament we would see the abilities. I think he tried to just have an excuse to separate luffy from all the drama, and at the same introduce new characters, and make the manga exciting since its a battle for a strong logia fruit.
The mangakas breaks have nothing to do with the pacing of the plot in the tankobon.
Throwaway characters: Other mangaka will surely give every single tournament contestant a back story and time to shine. This manga is about the mugiwaras and their adventures, while the rest of the world is rich and full of characters, of course Oda will have to create some never to be seen again characters to introduce a whole New World. :P
Last edited by Schabrak; July 20, 2013 at 05:57 AM.
The Tournament will get better when the 4 winners face the Doflamingo family, but this tournament serves a much bigger purpose. A lot of these characters will eventually become allies of the Strawhats down the road. This is an easy way to showcase some of their powers. Every arc since the story began Luffy has been gaining allies for the final showdown. The dwarves, Ricky,Bartolemeo, Rebecca, Cavendish, Don Chinjao, bellamy.....All of these characters will become allies for the strawhats.
The Strawhats will have need an army to face off against Kaido.
Last edited by chess4; July 20, 2013 at 08:51 AM.
See you again brought in why it isn't a traditional tournament. Didn't you read what I wrote?? If the arc is about the tournament by itself. It meant that the whole plot line was about who winning. This is Oda, he isn't going to go for something so simple. You are only saying this because you read this week by week. And most of people's attention span is very shitty (including my own) because of the internet age. Go back and read it again once the arc is over.
I don't watch the anime. The anime, to me, had always been a crap waste of time if I had already read the manga. Maybe it cool to watch a few youtube vid of the fights. Yes, the war is "horrible" pacing because again you are reading week from week. This is like saying Breaker: New Waves and Gantz covered so little ground per week. Well, that is certainly true. But your reading exp will change if you read it in volume form.Quote:
Hmm, didn't you read what I wrote about fodder characters??? And perspective and all??Quote:
I think you are arguing against a perspective that you are assuming Oda is taking. Well if the perspective you think Oda is taking is a myth, then you are wasting your time. Many people complaining about this arc had no idea what Oda's plan for it, they are assuming what stances he is taking.Quote:
On your last point, I agree but disagree. The fighting during the war arc annoyed me but it was realistic. You know One Piece is note for having a few fight scenes at the end and the rest is "STORY." Think about that and apply to the war arc. All of the non shown fights was STORY. The only fight that was really highlight was everything involved Whitebeard. This has always been Oda's style. He kinda broke it with Punk Hazard, which in my opinion, has some of the best non strawhats fight scenes.
As for this current arc, in block B, most of them are fodders like Dagama, Abdullah and Jeet. People like Tank Lepanto and Ricky can put up a fight but their fight was pretty much offscreen. Hack was caught in a surprise, this is realistic because often we are debate such and such character could KO another depend on if they can act first. Elizabello II only has that punch, nothing more to him. You will going to see more of Bellamy and Bartolomeo, so there is no point to go too in detail with them since you will see their extend power sooner or later. So that leave Bluegilly, I am pretty sure there is a lot more to him to come.
Right away from block B, beside Bartlomeo and Bellamy, I will predict that Bluegilly will play a moderate role. Ricky already showed that he will "do" something in this arc. Tank Lepanto is one of the soldier of the kingdom, he will returned for like T-5 sec and get his ass kick by one of the strawhats. Abdullah and Jeet probably not going to return. Hack will not played a big role but served as a background of Jinbe. Beside, we heard nothing about Jinbe's crew. Jinbe's crew at a shichibukai level got put down a lot because of Arlong being the second strongest. But now, we saw Hack and we can guestimate their New World power. Dagama and Elizabello II may not play any important role to come but sure as hell they will reappeared for a screen shot toward the end for the final conflict that involved multi nations.
UP course, everything is prediction. Since block B already played out, I can logically predict those characters. In just one block, I kinda destroy your "one reappears" thing. At the end of the day, you maybe right. But we won't know until another year to come.