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Thread: The tournament needs to end

  1. #16
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity chess4's Avatar
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    Re: The tournament needs to end

    Quote Originally Posted by winterwyrm View Post
    Do you think so? Maybe but I don't think they will need that much, burgess will definitely not be their ally, and what's more they probably wont fight all of kaidou's forces at once, I think if the straw hats, the law pirates and especially if kid's alliance were to fight too, then they would be able to defeat kaidou's forces, though it would be a struggle.
    Really? Those 5 crews will not be enough to touch Kaido. Why would Kid help Luffy and Law. They arent after Kaido. Kaido has 500 ability users in his crew, not to mention the countless other crews he has working for him. If they went up against Kaido with just 5 crews they would be destroyed. YOu see how many people WB had behind him, it took the entire strength of the Wg to stop him, and you think just 5 crews will defeat Kaido....Come on son.

    They will need a full scale army

  2. #17
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted k-dom's Avatar
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    Re: The tournament needs to end

    If this manga is published in a weekly magazine it is because it is intended to be read weekly. The mangakas use this schedule to create the pace of their story. There can be transition chapters and other but the manga still shall be enjoyable when read on a weekly basis even if it is better in volume. Also in this case I'm not sure this fights will be more interesting when read in one go...
    As for your fodder characters, yes some of them can become important later. But it's impossible that all of these new characters will in this arc. Oda already struggle to give all the strawhat their arc moment and you want that all those have some more screen time later ? I hope they rest in peace.

  3. #18
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    Re: The tournament needs to end

    My first reaction to this chapter was exactly like the initial poster's, so I can really relate to the arguments there. Now that I've had some time to cool my head down, I narrowed the things that really disturb me down to the following:

    * Doesn't progress the story: the current arc as a LOT of storytelling potential going in many different directions, on which Oda has built a huge amount of anticipation in recent chapters. However, the early phases of the tournament only play a minor part in it because everyone pretty much agrees on their outcome. Therefore, a chapter such as 715 that doesn't bring any progress in the Law / Sanji / Franky / Dwarves / Sunny stories feels greatly frustrating because it simply doesn't give us any new story elements to chew on. Yes, Don Chinjao & cohort are haki users and other guys in block C are strong. Is that a surprise? No.

    * Filler characters: I think we all agree that many tournament fighters are one-shot characters we won't see ever after. A couple of them will definitely play their part in the upcoming arc, and I for one sure hope to see more of the Chinjao gang, Ricky & Rebecca, Bellamy, and Cavendish & Barto. The rest ? Dust to dust. Nevertheless, Oda showcases them in a redudant manner (we've had at least two named introduction panels for most major fighters in blocks B & C, one early on and one during their block) that feels like he is trying to impose them on us, rather than giving them a genuine importance in the plot through storytelling alone.

    * Detached from the main story: from what we're told, the New World is all about World Gov, Corsairs, Emperors and how the Strawhats & allies will rise up to the challenge to become major players in this era. However, with the exception of Jesus Burghess, none of the (still going) tournament fighters is seriously linked to any of that as far as we know (yet). A bit of the underworld, foreign kingdoms, Barto's mysterious mera-mera recipient, and that's it. The tournament events could be told in any generic shonen manga with little to no adaptation effort, i.e the new content that they bring feels only partly related to One Piece such as we currently know it. Maybe some of the characters and kingdoms mentionned will play a part in the future, but right now we don't know it for sure, and that's what makes them frustrating when there's already so much we don't know about. The potential is there, it's just not being exploited at the moment.


    As a consequence of all the above, reinforced by the fact that Oda gives out only minimalist clues about the story elements he has sown and by the repeated breaks, awesome though they might be, thournament parts nevertheless feel like so much filler pages. I just can't help it. This all boils down to me wanting so badly to know what else is happening and getting caught in the pace of the weekly publication; the arc as a whole will still be enjoyable; yet, chapters such as 715 are really a notch below the rest in their individual enjoyability.
    Last edited by Seafarer; July 20, 2013 at 04:55 PM.

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  5. #19
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity weixiaobao's Avatar
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    Re: The tournament needs to end

    Quote Originally Posted by k-dom View Post
    As for your fodder characters, yes some of them can become important later. But it's impossible that all of these new characters will in this arc. Oda already struggle to give all the strawhat their arc moment and you want that all those have some more screen time later ? I hope they rest in peace.
    No, I don't want anything. But I would think that there is a reason for Oda to made BlueGilly out to be so competent. Right.
    Yes, you are certainly right about the strawhat moment. But Oda juggle his main characters much much much better than other series.

    Quote Quote:
    If this manga is published in a weekly magazine it is because it is intended to be read weekly.
    I don't think I would dispute that. But common, you don't think Eyeshield 21 is read better in one go even though it is weekly. Or *insert whatever." So far the chapters as they stance along go from average to good to excellent at time. I meant just a few weeks ago people are fanboy all over Law, Doflamingo, etc. But, just wait and see what he have install for the tournament. By the time this arc end, and if everything turn out awesome. Would you guys eat your words?? If it isn't, then I would admit I got it wrong.


    I think I beat the dead horse too much now.

    Okay, so you guys are all saying, the best way to do this is skipped everything and just Luffy vs Don Chinjao. Tell me how you would write that. Oh and it seemed everything happened in real time. Also, who know what Oda want. Maybe he didn't want to show what happened to Law altogether. And Law seemingly disappear for the next 7-8 chapters. And that would somehow be a mystery element of this arc like what happen to Robin during Water 7. I don't know. When we are talking about future chapters with no basis to go on, tt is kinda hard. I meant gosh, Laboon arc was incredibly irrelevant.

    I will ended this by saying. I will wait until this block C and D finished before I go back and reexamine on this.

  6. #20
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member hoeru's Avatar
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    Re: The tournament needs to end

    Quote Originally Posted by Seafarer View Post
    * Doesn't progress the story: the current arc as a LOT of storytelling potential going in many different directions, on which Oda has built a huge amount of anticipation in recent chapters. However, the early phases of the tournament only play a minor part in it because everyone pretty much agrees on their outcome. Therefore, a chapter such as 715 that doesn't bring any progress in the Law / Sanji / Franky / Dwarves / Sunny stories feels greatly frustrating because it simply doesn't give us any new story elements to chew on. Yes, Don Chinjao & cohort are haki users and other guys in block C are strong. Is that a surprise? No.
    But it does progress the story as the tournament is Luffy's plotline of the whole arc. Why should Oda leave out the title character? In favor of what? Fan-hyped characters that were only meant to be recurring from the beginning?

    The tournament is actually quite a huge part, as it has four melée groups at the start, and an important prize to win. And it's part of Doflamingo's plan to isolate Luffy from the rest of the alliance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seafarer View Post
    * Filler characters: I think we all agree that many tournament fighters are one-shot characters we won't see ever after. A couple of them will definitely play their part in the upcoming arc, and I for one sure hope to see more of the Chinjao gang, Ricky & Rebecca, Bellamy, and Cavendish & Barto. The rest ? Dust to dust. Nevertheless, Oda showcases them in a redudant manner (we've had at least two named introduction panels for most major fighters in blocks B & C, one early on and one during their block) that feels like he is trying to impose them on us, rather than giving them a genuine importance in the plot through storytelling alone.
    And what actually makes believe this? As far as shown, no one is dead, but only injured. Some more some less. All Oda does is giving many characters names that just aren't strong enough to survive a melée only the strongest is allowed to head on to the next round.

    Much better than keeping them unnamed in the manga and make the names show up in a databook or the SBS only, so those names become canon to all readers right away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seafarer View Post
    * Detached from the main story: from what we're told, the New World is all about World Gov, Corsairs, Emperors and how the Strawhats & allies will rise up to the challenge to become major players in this era. However, with the exception of Jesus Burghess, none of the (still going) tournament fighters is seriously linked to any of that as far as we know (yet). A bit of the underworld, foreign kingdoms, Barto's mysterious mera-mera recipient, and that's it. The tournament events could be told in any generic shonen manga with little to no adaptation effort, i.e the new content that they bring feels only partly related to One Piece such as we currently know it. Maybe some of the characters and kingdoms mentionned will play a part in the future, but right now we don't know it for sure, and that's what makes them frustrating when there's already so much we don't know about. The potential is there, it's just not being exploited at the moment.
    Well, that doesn't make quite sense, does it? How can a plot line that has the title character in title character init, and that is an important piece of the current arc, be "detached" as you say just by Oda giving some of Luffy's opponents a bit of background?

    Sure we can't see what Oda is up until now - that's the nature of an ongoing and unfinished story. But from what we've learned so far, the World Government's influence on the New World is most likely down to zero even though they keep maintaining two Marine bases there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seafarer View Post
    and by the repeated breaks
    Repeated breaks. Well, last time Oda was on break, he stayed in a hospital. This time it's one of the regular ones to prepare the next volume, or start to deal on the next movie or databook or - more importantly - the next artbook.

    Quote Originally Posted by weixiaobao View Post
    Okay, so you guys are all saying, the best way to do this is skipped everything and just Luffy vs Don Chinjao. Tell me how you would write that.
    I'm totally sure they only want to see Luffy taking up the Mera Mera no Mi assertively without even knowing who Luffy actually fought, not even Chinjao.

  7. #21
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    Re: The tournament needs to end

    Quote Originally Posted by hoeru View Post
    But it does progress the story as the tournament is Luffy's plotline of the whole arc. Why should Oda leave out the title character?
    It's not so much a matter of leaving Luffy out as of balancing and pruning the action so that only the key parts are shown. Take for example block B that progressed while leaving space for parallel plots: these chapters felt more balanced and less frustrating than 715.

    Quote Quote:
    And what actually makes believe this? As far as shown, no one is dead, but only injured. Some more some less.
    By "dust to dust" I did not imply death in its rawest meaning, but rather that many of these characters will likely not get any significant story time after the tournament is ended (which to the reader is as good as dead). In which case yes, I would much rather learn their names only in separate databooks. And at the very least, introduce them only once, not two or three times each.

    Quote Quote:
    Well, that doesn't make quite sense, does it? How can a plot line that has the title character in title character init, and that is an important piece of the current arc, be "detached" as you say just by Oda giving some of Luffy's opponents a bit of background?
    Exactly like that. Oda is fleshing out these tournament characters, which is theoretically a good thing, but many of them come from entirely new places, kingdoms so far unheard of, which is where I get the "detached" feeling: it's a lot of new information to stomach - hopefully, the feeling will disappear after enough of the New World has been introduced. I do reckon that some of them are tied to existing plot lines, but not enough in my taste.
    How to improve? I would like to know for example if any of those fighters have ties to other 3 emperors; where do the Prodence Kingdom and Country of Flowers stand on the geopolitical chessboard; how does the Marine fare in the New World .... This would feel like a better expense of space than 7 pages for showing off the Funk brothers and 3 for Jean Ango.

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  9. #22
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    Re: The tournament needs to end

    why would you not want to see luffy whoop ass left and right against guys from the strongest part of the sea?


    Can someone message me an anime that's similar to d grayman or claymore or deathnote?

    Ive seen Deathnote, deadman wonderland, fairytale, shigurui, ao no exorcist, beelzebub, samurai champloo, code geass, devil may cry, Hakuouki, monster, blood plus, gantz. Basically, something with demons and gore.

  10. #23
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member jimtors's Avatar
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    Re: The tournament needs to end

    I think this tournament or what not is really helpful for us readers to be able to gauge the strength levels in the New world. I enjoy the fights and I don't mind if ODA drags this... ^__^

  11. #24
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    Re: The tournament needs to end

    HOpefully group D is quick so we can get to the 4 matches with the DD family leaders. I want to see more of Barto and his goals.


    Can someone message me an anime that's similar to d grayman or claymore or deathnote?

    Ive seen Deathnote, deadman wonderland, fairytale, shigurui, ao no exorcist, beelzebub, samurai champloo, code geass, devil may cry, Hakuouki, monster, blood plus, gantz. Basically, something with demons and gore.

  12. #25
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    Re: The tournament needs to end

    Quote Originally Posted by Seafarer View Post
    It's not so much a matter of leaving Luffy out as of balancing and pruning the action so that only the key parts are shown. Take for example block B that progressed while leaving space for parallel plots: these chapters felt more balanced and less frustrating than 715.
    Please get your facts straight: Block B including the characters' introduction from the announcer reached from the end of Chapter 705 to 709 - the only thing as plot development was the introduction of Chinjao. So it's three and a half chapters of tournament.

    From 710 to 714, there was the plot development of the current arc. And in the mid of Chapter 714, Block C has already started, and it is only two and a half chapter now Block C.

    Oda continues the parallel plotlines between the blocks and takes more time for them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seafarer View Post
    By "dust to dust" I did not imply death in its rawest meaning, but rather that many of these characters will likely not get any significant story time after the tournament is ended (which to the reader is as good as dead). In which case yes, I would much rather learn their names only in separate databooks. And at the very least, introduce them only once, not two or three times each.
    If one really cared for One Piece, those characters aren't missed, but not forgotten either. Revealing the characters name isn't much but the name written on the same panel that character appears, so even if their names are shown twice, Oda does not lose any space on introducing them. No one can claim for real that was wasted, when Oda named the characters that had some lines of dialogue. I am totally sure he does this because of the databook's reception. We won't agree on this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seafarer View Post
    Exactly like that. Oda is fleshing out these tournament characters, which is theoretically a good thing, but many of them come from entirely new places, kingdoms so far unheard of, which is where I get the "detached" feeling: it's a lot of new information to stomach - hopefully, the feeling will disappear after enough of the New World has been introduced. I do reckon that some of them are tied to existing plot lines, but not enough in my taste.
    How to improve? I would like to know for example if any of those fighters have ties to other 3 emperors; where do the Prodence Kingdom and Country of Flowers stand on the geopolitical chessboard; how does the Marine fare in the New World .... This would feel like a better expense of space than 7 pages for showing off the Funk brothers and 3 for Jean Ango.
    How is that of any relevance NOW? You don't make much sense. Either you want the tournament to be shorter, or you want even more backgrounds to those characters which would take even more place from what you just called to be the more important plot. Just let Oda take his time. It's not like One Piece is about to end by this arc. If he doesn't answer now, he'll deliver some time later, as Oda has been always like that as he weaves a web of plots and facts. All you need is some patience.

    Revealing in chapters before 716 where those countries stand on the geopolitical chessboard would be a complete and displaced waste that would not drive this plot, nor the tournament any further but make them halt. Even in the next 20 chapters it would be way too early, as it would be much more important, what actually happened on the tournament, the search for the Smile Factory, on Greenbit and the Sunny.

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  14. #26
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member David Rose's Avatar
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    Re: The tournament needs to end

    To be honest: I really enjoy the tournament chapters. Luffy always was the single character that made this manga whole for me. Also i like the concept of Oda's storytelling. He simply takes his time to develop everything as good as he can. Im would assume anybody that doesn't like his current pacing probably doesn't read Hajime no Ippo, or listen to the music of Tool either.
    One Piece is one of the best mangas ever made and Oda knows it. He does as he like and if you don't appreciate that it's your own problem for raising false expectations.
    I really enjoyed the impel down and war arcs, because Oda could fully focus on Luffy. And just as before Nami and the others are getting into trouble all the time, which actually is bothering me. Even Law's clash with DD is just exciting since Fujitora joined it and we still have to get a classification for his ability. At the moment we just see everybody getting into trouble and Luffy beeing the one that actually get's something done as usual (like befriending a Killer Bull).
    In the end i guess everybody that's complaining now will tell anybody how this arc was, once it's finished ...

    Some kind words to finish: i understand every criticism for the current arc and why you would come to those conclusions, but that's totally your opinion. You can't expect to satisfy every reader as an author, sorry for you that you're not. But there is no huge flaw in Oda's storytelling, it's a simple subjective opinion. You can argue a lot, but it won't bring anything new and i guess you will not convince anyone to change his opinion.

    This current arc will probably be the best of all arcs yet, since as far as i see it One Piece always improved over time. Not only regarding the story but also the artwork itself. Keep in mind that you can't really go all out and complain now but like the arc later. Be honest to yourself and enjoy the manga without biased expectations, it's not that you'll be able to change something. It will only deminish your own fun reading. That's at least what happend to me with Naruto, Hunter x Hunter, Alita, Berzerk and what not. Naruto isn't exactly a good example as this manga really went down the drain some time ago. :P

    Sorry for the harsh words. If you are offended by what i said i apologize for doing so. And regarding the pacing: As long as Oda can maintain the weekly chapters without too many breaks i can wait some years more. Hell, it's a whole lot better as waiting for the next Song of Ice and Fire, even though it'll be worth while. :P

    >>David rose to beat the Philistines, with five smooth stones and a sling.<<

  15. #27
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Razh's Avatar
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    Re: The tournament needs to end

    On of the things that make One Piece so good is a nice and steady build up. Just think of Water 7, for example, and how everyone introduced there had some role to play in the culmination of Enies Lobby.

    You really think this tournament is it's own purpose?

    I fucking love it, because I know the high point of this arc will blow our minds off.

    Heh
    Prediction: Dragon will appear on Fishman Island!
    Challenge Gilferbeast!!!


    (thank you pupil "fuck you razh" -> made me lol)

  16. #28
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    Re: The tournament needs to end

    I don't mind the tournament at all , i think it's pretty interesting since Oda introduced so many characters and as i said there must be a damn reason why he put on stage so many characters . Just like we saw in the war arc , WB had many allies that's why we can think of these people as possible candidates for allies in the near future

    The tournament is just build-up for later on IMO

  17. #29
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: The tournament needs to end

    Luffy gathering allies at the tournament is a given IMO. It does not make sense to bring up so many strong characters if they are not going to have at least a minor role in the future. Of course it is also extremely likely luffy will collect enemies there as well. Many of the people there are also representing entire nations so it stands to reason those characters would have a role to play in the future. It is not unusual for luffy and co to get involved with local governments so it makes sense they will be relevant. It would be interesting if people related to other nations would be future war enemies for a government luffy became friends with.... I can see that being the case with the flower country. Of course there is also the consideration that the tournament could be a huge boiling pot waiting to explode. The number of powerful warriors combined with the imminent political instability the country is about to go through is nothing short of an invitation for disaster. I mean, the current situation could lead to a million different things...

    I wonder if it is also a counter measure as far as doflamingo is concerned. As we just saw it seems there are at least several bounty hunters with some power to their name. From everyone's perspective a the mera mera no mi is a powerful war asset to say the least. A pirate's benefit from it is obvious. Bounty hunters would naturally be drawn to it as it would allow them to hunt for bigger game pirates. Of course a gathering of pirates wanting the mera mera no mi would also be convenient to them. So there are two reasons for them to go there. Even if they don't aim for one of them, there is also the other reason.

    Now, as far as doflamingo is concerned the chaos could favor him. Perhaps the tournament as a whole is also a precaution for him just in case shit gets real overall. So you have on one hand the strawhat and heart pirates making chaos everywhere but on the other hand doflamingo has the marines and his crew on his side. Things turn dark for him and suddenly kaido makes a move. So the result is that in a single island you have important marine assets, the doflamingo family, the strawhats, the heart pirates, the kaido pirates and the colloseum participants. The bounty hunters go nuts considering the sheer amount of bounty everywhere, the government affiliated participants see a chance to hurt a yonko or are perhaps allied to kaido, the pirates get a chance to make a name for themselves if they take out a big shot..... And doflamingo takes advantage of this insanity somehow.

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  19. #30
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member GomuGomu_Getsuga's Avatar
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    Re: The tournament needs to end

    Personally I can't wait to see Luffy knock a few heads off. We will also get to see Diamante, Burgess, Cabbage and the rest of Flamingo's men in action. Rebecca's back story also has to be shown.

    I'm confused about how the tournament will end after all the block champions are named. Will it be the champions together versus Flamimgo's gang or some sort of free for all? I cant see Flamingo's men fighting each other and I don't think Burgess or Cabbage should be defeated so soon.

    Its been almost 3 years since we've seen any real action in this manga and even longer since Luffy has had a serious one on one boss fight. There has been too much "strategy" lately with a little action in between. Another thing I havent liked lately is how much Law has been shown. I don't care for him much and he bores me. I will be very happy when he parts ways with the Strawhats. Im ready to see some Kidd.
    Last edited by GomuGomu_Getsuga; July 23, 2013 at 03:45 PM.

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