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View Poll Results: Who wins?

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  • Zaraki Kenpachi

    10 32.26%
  • Kisuke Urahara

    21 67.74%
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Thread: Bleach Tournament Quarter Finals: Kenpachi vs Urahara

  1. #1
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    Bleach Tournament Quarter Finals: Kenpachi vs Urahara


    Don't forget to read the rules first before you proceed. You can click on character names below pictures to go to their Bleach wiki article for more information.

    QUARTER FINALS

    Welcome to the Quarter Finals of championship fights of the second Bleach Tournament!
    Here are the contestants who will battle against each other to advance to the next round in the championship bracket:



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    Re: Bleach Tournament Quarter Finals: Kenpachi vs Urahara

    Kenpachi will laugh at everything Urahara can throw at him. I'm sad to admit it, but my favorite character in Bleach doesn't stand a chance.

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    Re: Bleach Tournament Quarter Finals: Kenpachi vs Urahara

    If it was Kenpachi from before the training he'd be dead, if it was Kenpachi after training, Urahara can hardly do anything, except one thing. I don't know which Kenpachi we should take into account. Before his training or after training? We hardly saw anything from post-training Kenpachi to judge his skill I think.

    If Kenpachi is pre-training I give it to Urahara without hesitation.
    If Kenpachi is after his hellish training... I'm torn. Kenpachi is known for his outrageous reiatsu. He is careless and easygoing, but crazy strong. I'm sure Urahara would be able to use his reiatsu-sealing Kido on him, which would have LARGE impact considering Kenpachi's reiatsu. Aizen said, that Urahara's technique would kill him if he was Shinigami. So we have to think if current Kenpachi would be as strong as Shinigami Aizen. Maybe. I'm sure his reiatsu would be bigger, so he'd take bigger damage, so even if he was stronger, it's still game over. But he doesn't control his power as good as Aizen. He is not even close. Knowing his carelessness, would he be caught in Urahara technique? In terms of intellect, Urahara is light years ahead of Kenpachi. Portable Gigai, Bakudos and Kenpachi's dead.

    Ah, screw it. I give it to Urahara. Reiatsu-sealing technique should end Kenpachi. Is he stupid enough to get caught? Is Urahara smart enough to catch him? I think so. Kenpachi being a tank hardly means anything, as the damage from technique is internal, from the very core. The same reiatsu that makes Kenpachi a tank would explode inside him. So he has NO resistance against attack, that would be outrageously damaging for him, as his reiatsu is muuuuuch higher than anything else in his case.

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    Re: Bleach Tournament Quarter Finals: Kenpachi vs Urahara

    I don't consider this match to be one-sided by any stretch of the imagination. Urahara is probably the worst kind of opponent for Kenpachi. And I remain uncertain about the extent of Kenpachi's abilities. Kenpachi has always faced combatants willing to slash it out with him face to face, Urahara isn't going to do anything of the sort. He is going to use his speed, kido, and every bit of intellect and trickery within his repertoire. And I don't see Ken changing his style even a little bit, even if he's getting torn to shreds. To be honest, I favour Urahara at the moment.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Zeta42's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Tournament Quarter Finals: Kenpachi vs Urahara

    Totally forgot about those reiatsu-sealing Kido handcuffs. Can't argue with that, they are probably the only thing in Urahara's arsenal which can take Kenpachi down, but they guarantee a 100% victory. Kenpachi doesn't have the Hogyoku to protect him.

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    Re: Bleach Tournament Quarter Finals: Kenpachi vs Urahara

    I'm a bit different about this compared to most other fights, since I don't think this will be somewhat close. To clarify it, I'd even give this fight to Mayuri if he was facing Kenpachi in Urahara's place and Urahara's intellect isn't inferior to his. I believe anyone who is capable of developing strategies to adjust his fighting style according to his opponent will defeat Kenpachi and Urahara belongs in this group. As monstrous as his strength has become, brute force cannot defeat genius alone.

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    Re: Bleach Tournament Quarter Finals: Kenpachi vs Urahara

    Assuming this is TS kenpachi pre unohana training. I'm going to give it to uruhara. Uruhara is much faster and actually has other shikai teqniques other then the scream attack which is basically a getsuga thensou. He has a piercing attack that goes right through hogyoku aizen. He has a explosion attack that can noticably burn chrysalis aizen's shell. A shell sturdy enough to take no damage from a slash from base isshin and kido in the 90's. Uruhara should have no trouble damaging kenpachi infact I'm quite sure if kenpachi get's trapped in that net teqnique he will take quite some serious damage. Not to mention his quick ability to use and chain bakudo fast enough to surprise a speed phantom like aizen. I bet to seals aren't going to be placed that easily given kenpachi is swinging his sword however Uruhara has many other means of dealing with him. Uruhara stomps pre unohana kenpachi.

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    Re: Bleach Tournament Quarter Finals: Kenpachi vs Urahara

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeta42 View Post
    Kenpachi will laugh at everything Urahara can throw at him. I'm sad to admit it, but my favorite character in Bleach doesn't stand a chance.
    Consecutive Kidos and using Benihime's binding ability is enough as well. It could burn Hogyoku-Aizen, it could scratch him and create HUGE smokescreen to create opportunity to attack, or use his reiatsu-sealing technique. Kenpachi would just stand there laughing and screaming "WHERE ARE YOU YOU DAMN FLY!" And the moment he says that it's game over.

    PS. I was talking about that binding ability

    http://www.mangareader.net/94-52277-...apter-405.html

    Shibari Benihime, follow up with Hiasobi Benihime Juzu Tsunagi, which makes fireball of

    http://www.mangareader.net/94-52277-...apter-405.html

    that size.

    Btw, if we're talking about Urahara and his techniques:

    http://www.mangareader.net/94-51581-...apter-403.html

    Look at the city in the bottom part of that panel. Now at the explosion. Now at the city, at the explosion, city, explosion, city, explosion. HOW THE HELL BIG IS IT? I swear to God, I've never thought it was that big. That's what she said >.>

    http://www.mangareader.net/94-51581-...apter-403.html

    That attacks is enough to make Gin worried, Ichigo terrified and Isshin... well, being Isshin, cool attitude, let's see what happens. Even his GT didn't make him more excited. Dam poker face.

    Aizen's statement about strength of this technique.

    http://www.mangareader.net/94-51581-...apter-403.html

    Urahara also has a shield, a getsuga-like technique, Byakurai-like technique, he can recreate Bala and he has something like "Nake, Benihime", IIRC, which was used to counter Yammy's Cero pointed at Yoruichi.

    This fight comes down to catching Kenpachi after all.
    Last edited by Duniak; July 21, 2013 at 04:05 PM.

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    Re: Bleach Tournament Quarter Finals: Kenpachi vs Urahara

    Urahara is fast and smart enough to not get cut in half by the brute strength of Kenpachi plus he has enough in his arsenal to actually neutralize kenpachi. Like his 90ish Kidos and some of his own secret moves etc.
    So he is favourite in this fight.

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    Re: Bleach Tournament Quarter Finals: Kenpachi vs Urahara

    People misunderstand Kenpachi. The Unohana training did not increase his power, he merely remembered how to fully utilize it. Before that his power came closer to his true potential the tougher the opponent. Even if we deal with Kennie pre training, I have to asume that Urahara pushes him to such a degree that his power grows overwhelming over time. If it grows enough, Kenpachi can pretty much one shot Urahara IF he gets a clean shot in. The question is: would Kisuke let that happen? This match-up is brilliant, because these two are each other's weaknesses.
    Urahara has insane skill in all areas of shinigami combat. He has great power. His Zanpakutou's shikai is a perfect, an absolutely perfect match for his versatility. Combine that with his intelligence, and you've got Mayuri on steroids, but smarter. Bottomline: Urahara can stomp an opponent pretty good if the difference in raw power isn't too great. But wait--

    Kenpachi has insane raw power. In terms of raw power, there might be no shinigami alive to match Kenpachi, especially after the training since he's continuously at max power. In a battle of only power, endurance and reiatsu, veeery few can hope to match Kenpachi. If you cannot, you'd need to be a smart technician. Which Urahara coincidentally is. But remember, Urahara did not have prep time for Kenpachi, wich he did against Aizen. Any anti-Ken measure must be thought of during the match. For me, this match is by far the toughest decision so far.

    And people remember, Urahara cannot asspull Kido or techniques he has not shown yet. So no thinking aliong the lines of some "Sealing Kido in the 90's" if we have not seen it. Remember the rules.
    Last edited by Smerten; July 22, 2013 at 03:37 AM.

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    Re: Bleach Tournament Quarter Finals: Kenpachi vs Urahara

    Quote Originally Posted by Smerten View Post
    People misunderstand Kenpachi. The Unohana training did not increase his power, he merely remembered how to fully utilize it. Before that his power came closer to his true potential the tougher the opponent. Even if we deal with Kennie pre training, I have to asume that Urahara pushes him to such a degree that his power grows overwhelming over time. If it grows enough, Kenpachi can pretty much one shot Urahara IF he gets a clean shot in. The question is: would Kisuke let that happen? This match-up is brilliant, because these two are each other's weaknesses.
    Urahara has insane skill in all areas of shinigami combat. He has great power. His Zanpakutou's shikai is a perfect, an absolutely perfect match for his versatility. Combine that with his intelligence, and you've got Mayuri on steroids, but smarter. Bottomline: Urahara can stomp an opponent pretty good if the difference in raw power isn't too great. But wait--

    Kenpachi has insane raw power. In terms of raw power, there might be no shinigami alive to match Kenpachi, especially after the training since he's continuously at max power. In a battle of only power, endurance and reiatsu, veeery few can hope to match Kenpachi. If you cannot, you'd need to be a smart technician. Which Urahara coincidentally is. But remember, Urahara did not have prep time for Kenpachi, wich he did against Aizen. Any anti-Ken measure must be thought of during the match. For me, this match is by far the toughest decision so far.

    And people remember, Urahara cannot asspull Kido or techniques he has not shown yet. So no thinking aliong the lines of some "Sealing Kido in the 90's" if we have not seen it. Remember the rules.
    but we have seen his sealing kido.
    imo urahara takes this, it's not a complete curb-stomp but kenny aint getting out those hand-cuffs.

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    Re: Bleach Tournament Quarter Finals: Kenpachi vs Urahara

    Quote Originally Posted by Smerten View Post
    People misunderstand Kenpachi. The Unohana training did not increase his power, he merely remembered how to fully utilize it. Before that his power came closer to his true potential the tougher the opponent. Even if we deal with Kennie pre training, I have to asume that Urahara pushes him to such a degree that his power grows overwhelming over time. If it grows enough, Kenpachi can pretty much one shot Urahara IF he gets a clean shot in. The question is: would Kisuke let that happen? This match-up is brilliant, because these two are each other's weaknesses.
    If that was the case he wouldn't lose to Shikai Ichigo... Pushing him to the edge DOESN'T make him stronger. If it was like that there'd no need to kill him and resurrect him. Just push him to the edge and he should rise to Unohana's level, right? But nope, he went from fodder to Unohana to Unohana's-bankai-is-fodder-to-my-normal-sword-and-I-didn't-use-Kendo-yet-bitch Kenpachi. Doesn't look like he raised to her level. Just his death made his unconciousness realize, that he has to use his whole power.

    I don't know when or where was it said, that his training only raised his ability to fight. It is YOUR assumption. It increased every ascept of his power. Speed, strength, Zanjutsu, REIATSU.

    Quote Quote:
    Kenpachi has insane raw power. In terms of raw power, there might be no shinigami alive to match Kenpachi, especially after the training since he's continuously at max power. In a battle of only power, endurance and reiatsu, veeery few can hope to match Kenpachi. If you cannot, you'd need to be a smart technician. Which Urahara coincidentally is. But remember, Urahara did not have prep time for Kenpachi, wich he did against Aizen. Any anti-Ken measure must be thought of during the match. For me, this match is by far the toughest decision so far.
    The very reiatsu that makes Kenpachi so strong will be his downfall. The amount of reiatsu he has is abnormally huge for every shinigami, what makes Urahara's technique incredibly powerful and effective. Anti-Ken measures already are there, as all of us suggest.

    Quote Quote:
    And people remember, Urahara cannot asspull Kido or techniques he has not shown yet. So no thinking aliong the lines of some "Sealing Kido in the 90's" if we have not seen it. Remember the rules.
    We've seen Hados and Bakudos in their 60s, 70s, 80s by Urahara, so we don't need 90s. And I don't really see anyone writing about sealing him in 90s Kido or anything else then what he showed in Aizen fight. His seal against Aizen is enough. He doesn't need TIME to prepare it. He already invented it. Now he can use it whenever he wants. It's not like Ichigo needs to prepare his GT before his fight because back in early chapters he couldn't fire it. >.<

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    Re: Bleach Tournament Quarter Finals: Kenpachi vs Urahara

    Zaraki has no hogyoku to protect him if Urahara does his neat little trick to block reatsu in his wrists like he attempted to do on Aizen.
    If it wasn't for the Hogyoku, he'd been blown to pieces, utterly.

    Anyone given Urahara the chance to do this would probably be a goner, Urahara only needs a moment to set this up.
    Although it leaves a big hole in the manga, if Urahara could have done it to Shinigami like Yama-Jii if he wanted for example, now that would be kinda stupid.
    That doesn't change that we know he has this trick, and it's certainly deadly as hell.

    Having superiour powers wont save you from it, Aizen had that, and yet it was only the Hogyoku that saved him by healing him, it seems.

    Well who knows, it's a hax on the level as Aizens zanpaktou ability in this manga, in my opinion.

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    Re: Bleach Tournament Quarter Finals: Kenpachi vs Urahara

    Quote Originally Posted by Quantized View Post
    Zaraki has no hogyoku to protect him if Urahara does his neat little trick to block reatsu in his wrists like he attempted to do on Aizen.
    If it wasn't for the Hogyoku, he'd been blown to pieces, utterly.

    Anyone given Urahara the chance to do this would probably be a goner, Urahara only needs a moment to set this up.
    Although it leaves a big hole in the manga, if Urahara could have done it to Shinigami like Yama-Jii if he wanted for example, now that would be kinda stupid.
    That doesn't change that we know he has this trick, and it's certainly deadly as hell.

    Having superiour powers wont save you from it, Aizen had that, and yet it was only the Hogyoku that saved him by healing him, it seems.

    Well who knows, it's a hax on the level as Aizens zanpaktou ability in this manga, in my opinion.
    Yup, it's hax as hell, but only Urahara could invent it and make it into Kido-based attack and send it on another Kido AND with seal. Urahara's Zanpakuto and Kido skill is hax, not just this technique. :P His intellect pays off there. But he can still get careless and get surprised by the likes of Quilge. (Well, he did shot a big hole in his chest while opening Garganta few seconds before. Middle right panel: http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/499/2 Who wouldn't be surprised with him living?)
    Last edited by Duniak; July 22, 2013 at 10:33 AM.

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    Re: Bleach Tournament Quarter Finals: Kenpachi vs Urahara

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    If that was the case he wouldn't lose to Shikai Ichigo... Pushing him to the edge DOESN'T make him stronger. If it was like that there'd no need to kill him and resurrect him. Just push him to the edge and he should rise to Unohana's level, right? But nope, he went from fodder to Unohana to Unohana's-bankai-is-fodder-to-my-normal-sword-and-I-didn't-use-Kendo-yet-bitch Kenpachi. Doesn't look like he raised to her level. Just his death made his unconciousness realize, that he has to use his whole power.

    I don't know when or where was it said, that his training only raised his ability to fight. It is YOUR assumption. It increased every ascept of his power. Speed, strength, Zanjutsu, REIATSU.



    The very reiatsu that makes Kenpachi so strong will be his downfall. The amount of reiatsu he has is abnormally huge for every shinigami, what makes Urahara's technique incredibly powerful and effective. Anti-Ken measures already are there, as all of us suggest.



    We've seen Hados and Bakudos in their 60s, 70s, 80s by Urahara, so we don't need 90s. And I don't really see anyone writing about sealing him in 90s Kido or anything else then what he showed in Aizen fight. His seal against Aizen is enough. He doesn't need TIME to prepare it. He already invented it. Now he can use it whenever he wants. It's not like Ichigo needs to prepare his GT before his fight because back in early chapters he couldn't fire it. >.<
    Let me sart by saying you guys put words in my mouth. I never denied the existence of that sealing kido, I just reminded people that those kido he showed was all he had. A general reminder. That technique could allow him to beat everyone, there must be limitations other than actually hitting Kenpachi. Remember that Aizen did not care to avoid Kisuke's kido. For all we know, Kenpachi could avoid it. Difficult to see what would happen if our green clad player wanted to use it.

    Next, his loss to Ichigo can be explained, as for all his other power fluctuations, it's part of the very concept. Here is how Kenpachi's power worked: He was extremely powerful as a kid but every battle was boring. He was like Unohana in this regard. We have already seen that. Their battle was one where both could go all out. A frst for Kenpachi. That was his first true taste of battle. Lacking any challenge afterwards, he began to unconciously supress his powers, so he could fight longer. Enjoy fights longer. This habit became deeply ingrained untill he forgot his true power. The power that Unohana wanted to re-awaken.
    Why? Because Kenpachi's power was unreliable, fluctuating. I remember cracking the Kenpachi code along with other people on this forum quite a while ago, before it was confirmed by Kennies battle. It explained his weird power lapses that most people initially (including me) thought of as bad writing. Why did he fight a tough battle against Quinto Espada Nnoitra, only to annihilate him in 1 swing when he wielded slightly more technique? In the same manner, after that battle, he seemed much stronger when fighting against the Cero Espada, Yammy. In the original thread we also spoke about a side novel, that Kubo confirmed to be canon, where he gained power on a level that was unprecedented while fighting a vasto lorde. Kubo was pleased that someone was able to figure out the monstrous beast Kenpachi was, described as the biggest secret in bleach only to be revealed late in the manga. That novel was what initiated that original discussion.
    Him losing to Ichigo can be explained by both their fluctating powers. Ichigo's power fluctated higher. Kennies power, though fluctuating, is not tailor made to battle every opponent. It is seen in almost all of his battles. No one could pinpoint his potential. So it was more of a tendency, maybe evn luck. If his power consistently rose closer to his true potential every time the more powerful the opponent is, he would hardly need training. The training constantly put him in a situation where he would unconciously reach out to his true power. His reiatsu stabilized, he remember proper sword techniques, he adjusted to the speed, etc. So he did not magically gain power, he found his true power again.

    All in all Urahara will have to rely on his kido, technique and intellect to survive. He needs a solid plan that he needs to think off at that moment. He cannot charge at kenpachi all-out brawling. Even for someone of Urahara's caliber, that would be like bambi running into a truck. Perhaps the most important thing would be to decide if the reiatsu seal would work.
    Last edited by Smerten; July 22, 2013 at 02:04 PM.

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