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View Poll Results: Who wins?

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31. You may not vote on this poll
  • Zaraki Kenpachi

    10 32.26%
  • Kisuke Urahara

    21 67.74%
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Thread: Bleach Tournament Quarter Finals: Kenpachi vs Urahara

  1. #16
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    Re: Bleach Tournament Quarter Finals: Kenpachi vs Urahara

    Quote Originally Posted by Smerten View Post
    Let me sart by saying you guys put words in my mouth. I never denied the existence of that sealing kido, I just reminded people that those kido he showed was all he had. A general reminder. That technique could allow him to beat everyone, there must be limitations other than actually hitting Kenpachi. Remember that Aizen did not care to avoid Kisuke's kido. For all we know, Kenpachi could avoid it. Difficult to see what would happen if our green clad player wanted to use it.
    So what was it? Prevention? >.< Who put anything in your mouth? (Ok, that sounds strange)

    For all we know, current Kenpachi still doesn't hold a candle to HOGYOKU'd Aizen, that was like 10x faster and stronger, trashing Yoruichi, Urahara and Isshin afer losing to Isshin alone. Yup, Hogyoku Aizen could avoid it. But Aizen is intelligent. Kenpachi is an idiot and is MUCH weaker.

    Quote Originally Posted by Smerten View Post
    Next, his loss to Ichigo can be explained, as for all his other power fluctuations, it's part of the very concept. Here is how Kenpachi's power worked: He was extremely powerful as a kid but every battle was boring. He was like Unohana in this regard. We have already seen that. Their battle was one where both could go all out. A first for Kenpachi. That was his first true taste of battle. Lacking any challenge afterwards, he began to unconciously supress his powers, so he could fight longer. Enjoy fights longer. This habit became deeply ingrained untill he forgot his true power. The power that Unohana wanted to re-awaken.
    You don't have to quote manga, get to the point. >.<

    Quote Originally Posted by Smerten View Post
    Why? Because Kenpachi's power was unreliable, fluctuating. I remember cracking the Kenpachi code along with other people on this forum quite a while ago, before it was confirmed by Kennies battle. It explained his weird power lapses that most people initially (including me) thought of as bad writing. Why did he fight a tough battle against Quinto Espada Nnoitra, only to annihilate him in 1 swing when he wielded slightly more technique? In the same manner, after that battle, he seemed much stronger when fighting against the Cero Espada, Yammy. In the original thread we also spoke about a side novel, that Kubo confirmed to be canon, where he gained power on a level that was unprecedented while fighting a vasto lorde. Kubo was pleased that someone was able to figure out the monstrous beast Kenpachi was, described as the biggest secret in bleach only to be revealed late in the manga. That novel was what initiated that original discussion.
    I'd gladly see a proof of Kubo saying Kenpachi from that novel is canon. Kubo commented on novelist's idea of Kenpachi's shikai and said he may be right and he is surprised he figured it out. If that Kenpachi was canon, then current Kenpachi can kill Juha with relative ease, take 90 level Hados without taking any damage and kill anyone in this manga, Soul King included.

    Also, Kenpachi vs Nnoitra is pretty... normal. He was saying he was rusty all the time. Then he swung his sword creating shockwave and said he was warmed up. Then he annihilated Nnoitra. About his fight with Yammy. We saw like... 2-3 attacks that were the same like in the end of his battle with Nnoitra and he was fighting along with Byakuya. Saying he was stronger when he fought Yammy is baseless. We have no proof to say he was stronger during his fight with Yammy then he was at the end of Nnoitra's fight.


    Quote Originally Posted by Smerten View Post
    If his power consistently rose closer to his true potential every time the more powerful the opponent is, he would hardly need training.
    And that's a big if. For all we know, only near-death experience could make him take off his shackles. Maybe he did lift his limit during his fight with Nnoitra. Or maybe he just warmed up, as he said. He wasn't surprised he could create shockwave with his sword. Seems like he could to it before as well.


    Quote Originally Posted by Smerten View Post
    The training constantly put him in a situation where he would unconciously reach out to his true power. His reiatsu stabilized, he remember proper sword techniques, he adjusted to the speed, etc. So he did not magically gain power, he found his true power again.
    And here's another one. Shinigami's power comes from their soul. Nothing suggests, that his swordmanship was lacking. He lacked speed, strength and everything else. The question is, what has HUGE impact on both of that factors if person DOESN'T know how to utilize his reiatsu? Size of reiatsu itself. And what can be supressed by Shinigami's subconciousness? Skills? How to fight? Nothing suggests he forgot that. He was still a monster with sword. He didn't lose memories of that fight. What he could supress is REIATSU, using much less of it, keeping the rest sealed. And in contrary to what you're saying, we've actually seen number of people supressing their reiatsu. It's pretty common for 2nd Squad, Isshin could supress his reiatsu completely so Aizen wouldn't follow him and Ichigo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Smerten View Post
    All in all Urahara will have to rely on his kido, technique and intellect to survive. He needs a solid plan that he needs to think off at that moment. He cannot charge at kenpachi all-out brawling. Even for someone of Urahara's caliber, that would be like bambi running into a truck. Perhaps the most important thing would be to decide if the reiatsu seal would work.
    And I totally agree. Coming up with a plan in Urahara's case is a matter of seconds. It's not like he has one chance to bind him. As long as he doesn't die he has lots of chances. He can use distraction, trickery, binding, Kido. And Kenpachi? Sword. Which makes him PREDICTABLE and makes him pretty easy target if countered skillfully. It won't work if Urahara got speed-blitzed and one-shotted. Which seems not likely for me. If he gets one hit on Kenpachi it's over. Aizen speed-blitzed Urahara and what happened? Urahara managed to activate his technique in this moment. Urahara has crazy reflexes. I'd say they're on par with Yoruichi's, as they trained together.

  2. #17
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner truthspeaker's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Tournament Quarter Finals: Kenpachi vs Urahara

    Urahara's got this I mean seriously all Kenpachi's got is swinging his sword that's it he strong no doubt but beating someone whose intellect is above even Aizen isn't ever going to happen! Urahara's tricky use of his kido his shikai and intelligence is hard for damn near anybody kenpachi lacks the smarts plain and simple and the speed, easy victory for Mr hat and clogs!!!

  3. #18
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member darkprince0521's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Tournament Quarter Finals: Kenpachi vs Urahara

    Quote Originally Posted by truthspeaker View Post
    Urahara's got this I mean seriously all Kenpachi's got is swinging his sword that's it he strong no doubt but beating someone whose intellect is above even Aizen isn't ever going to happen! Urahara's tricky use of his kido his shikai and intelligence is hard for damn near anybody kenpachi lacks the smarts plain and simple and the speed, easy victory for Mr hat and clogs!!!
    If Kenpachi is stronger than Unohana while in her prime; then i doubt Kenpachi swinging his sword would be that ineffective.
    Naruto Forever


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    Re: Bleach Tournament Quarter Finals: Kenpachi vs Urahara

    Well, in a straight fight I can't imagine urahara even vaguely keeping up. I don't think urahara would have that much of an easy victory even over a espada and this is the guy who trashed unohana easily.

    Anyways, I am a bit iffy about the kido urahara used against aizen. The manga was never particular clear on whether they were something urahara had to prepare before hand or it would be something which he could use like any other kido. If he can use them just like any numbered kido then urahara should be golden here but otherwise there are a few issues. Not sure what to make of this.....

  5. #20
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner truthspeaker's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Tournament Quarter Finals: Kenpachi vs Urahara

    Quote Originally Posted by darkprince0521 View Post
    If Kenpachi is stronger than Unohana while in her prime; then i doubt Kenpachi swinging his sword would be that ineffective.
    Possible but keep in mind Kenpachi had the luxury of fighting her in close combat that wont be the case against Kisuke! If Kenpachi makes contact with him it will most likely be his gigai he hits then he will be at his mercy, at that point Urahara will mostly likely hit him with a barrage of kido that will at the very least cause critical damge if not more!
    Last edited by truthspeaker; July 23, 2013 at 11:24 AM.
    TruthSpeaker

  6. #21
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    Re: Bleach Tournament Quarter Finals: Kenpachi vs Urahara

    kenpachi is an idiot, he would be one-shotted by urahara wrapped in his invisible mantle. also,we haven't seen what kenpachi is capable of yet,he just became a little faster and stronger,but we can't count his zampakuto in this tournament

  7. #22
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    Re: Bleach Tournament Quarter Finals: Kenpachi vs Urahara

    Urahara is by far my favorite character and i believe that he is one of the most powerful beings in bleach but since i don't really have any evidence of that it doesn't really matter for this match. Still, based on what we have seen so far and even taking into consideration that Kenpachi is stronger and faster than he was before, Urahara should win this. Kenpachi has a very simple battle strategy, only thing he does is slash around with his sword until he or his opponent falls. Urahara is too smart to get pulled into that kind of fight, he will evade and observe until he can deal a critical hit. Unlike Kenpachi he has many different ways to defend and attack like his very versatile shikai, kido or some of his inventions.
    Last edited by sir_rocky; July 24, 2013 at 12:52 AM.

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    Re: Bleach Tournament Quarter Finals: Kenpachi vs Urahara

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeta42 View Post
    Totally forgot about those reiatsu-sealing Kido handcuffs. Can't argue with that, they are probably the only thing in Urahara's arsenal which can take Kenpachi down, but they guarantee a 100% victory. Kenpachi doesn't have the Hogyoku to protect him.
    Those were one off kido based cuffs designed for Aizen. They shouldn't be allowed in this fight.

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  10. #24
    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member zimbardo's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Tournament Quarter Finals: Kenpachi vs Urahara

    Quote Originally Posted by freshseth83 View Post
    Those were one off kido based cuffs designed for Aizen. They shouldn't be allowed in this fight.
    But were they made of kido (a technique) or were they an external object (like his portable gigai) that he brought to the fight specifically?
    If a kido technique, then he should have access to it and be able to use.
    If an object, then does that mean that, in this fight, he is not allowed his portable gigai either? Even though he has used it against 2 different people, in 2 separate fights.

    It was stated that the cuffs sealed the reatzu escaping from a shinigami's wrists. It was not stated that they would work only on Aizen, like Wonderweiss's ability on Ryuujinjakka.
    Therefore I feel that he would, and should, be allowed to use them. Kisuke does have the mindset to bring objects to fights that he may not necessarily have a use for - and then find practical opportunities to use them (such as the gigai vs Aizen).
    Infinite RAGE!

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    Re: Bleach Tournament Quarter Finals: Kenpachi vs Urahara

    It doesn't matter if he designed it for Aizen. Ichigo shot his first Getsuga at Urahara and noone has a problem with him using it on other people. -.-

    And Aizen calls it technique, not device, so saying it's not a technique of Urahara is wrong.
    Last edited by Duniak; July 24, 2013 at 03:18 AM.

  12. #26
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Hakuteiken's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Tournament Quarter Finals: Kenpachi vs Urahara

    Quote Originally Posted by freshseth83 View Post
    Those were one off kido based cuffs designed for Aizen. They shouldn't be allowed in this fight.
    Personally, I see no problem with allowing that kido handcuffs, regardless of how we treat it, be a technique or a device.
    Using exterior sources of power like that (which was canon) is definitely acceptable, that is, if the said person is capable of using it.

  13. #27
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    Re: Bleach Tournament Quarter Finals: Kenpachi vs Urahara

    With the kido-cuffs allowed, I am going to vote for the hat and clogs.
    This is one of many tipping factors.

    The technique is ideal against someone with an obscene amount of riatzu.
    Added to this is the fact that Urahara is very sneaky in applying the techniques - Aizen didn't even realise - and the fact that Kenpachi doesn't mind getting hit and isn't much of the dodging type.

    Both of these will help Urahara apply the cuffs - and once applied Kenpachi is toast (or at least crippled enough for Urahara to finish him).
    Last edited by zimbardo; July 24, 2013 at 07:24 AM.
    Infinite RAGE!

  14. #28
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    Re: Bleach Tournament Quarter Finals: Kenpachi vs Urahara

    Quote Originally Posted by Hakuteiken View Post
    Personally, I see no problem with allowing that kido handcuffs, regardless of how we treat it, be a technique or a device.
    Using exterior sources of power like that (which was canon) is definitely acceptable, that is, if the said person is capable of using it.
    If it was a device than some people may say, that every idiot could use it. 10th seat of Kenpachi's division for example.
    Hey captain!
    What do you want shrimp?
    Ah, nothing, just... you're dead!
    What? You fuckin' mad, you idiot?
    [Kenpachi explodes]

    But nothing suggests it's anything else than Kido, so it's like using your own ability. Like Hado with number far exceeding 99, that noone can learn or comprehend, only Urahara's genius.

  15. #29
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    Re: Bleach Tournament Quarter Finals: Kenpachi vs Urahara

    This fight just turned to squat imo. As did the tournament since special designed cuffs to seal Aizen's reiatsu can now be used as much as he wants (from fight to fight). Whats to stop him using other inventions like taking the armor he gave Yoruichi and doning it himself? With these inventions he can beat anyone. Theres no reason to discuss the fight now.

  16. #30
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    Re: Bleach Tournament Quarter Finals: Kenpachi vs Urahara

    Quote Originally Posted by freshseth83 View Post
    This fight just turned to squat imo. As did the tournament since special designed cuffs to seal Aizen's reiatsu can now be used as much as he wants (from fight to fight). Whats to stop him using other inventions like taking the armor he gave Yoruichi and doning it himself? With these inventions he can beat anyone. Theres no reason to discuss the fight now.
    The fact is, while designed to fight Aizen, there has never been a point at which anyone stated they were only usable on Aizen. Were it, for instance, Chad's ability to swing a telephone pole, which while useful in one fight is only useful in one fight, the handcuffs, by design, will be effective against a lot of people. Kenpachi is strong, true, but I think Urahara could win without the handcuffs. As for Yoruichi's armour, no dice. It was specifically designed for Yoruichi to wear, not just to be used on Yoruichi. Hell, Omochi with the mastered Hogyokou would beat anyone in the bleach world, but he doesn't have it. Urahara does have his cuffs.

    Epic Brofist!

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