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Translations: Gintama 515 (2)
Indeed, I'm sad that Taiki's story becomes a great tragedy. His mother's reaction only shows how fear can bring out the worst in people.
I wish I can read other chinese-influenced light novels, but sadly I don't know much about Japanese light novels and since I can't read Japanese, I depend heavily on translator's kindness.
Rikou is certainly an interesting guy. He looks to be a happy-go-lucky guy, but he really does have a lot up his sleeves and he has the capability to be ruthless, I think.
Now I want to know more about him and his family.
I've finished it! Goodness, it's a really great story. I love how the story addresses many issues about leadership. I'm proud of Shushou. I can totally agree with her reason to go on Shouzan. Expect people to change things for you while you do nothing, and nothing will change. At least, if you've tried, even if you fail, it is within your right to expect people to do something.
Shushou's first treatment of Kyouki... No wonder for the next decades to come, Kyouki has to put up with a lot of things. Thankfully, Shushou is a wise kid though rather bossy.
Oh, and there's Kouya! (Kouya is one of my fav characters, you see).
Well, that's kirin for you. They show compassion to everyone, even those who you may think do not deserve it.
Well, different kinds of king and Taiho will get different kinds of treatment. that's why I'm really curious about other palaces we haven't seen. The kingdom of Han, for example. With that kind of king (I was really surprised when I first read about him, really didn't expect him to be like that; his relationship with Hanki is also interesting), I wonder about the atmosphere in his palace.
Probably that will be the case, or there will also be another POV from a character who currently is in Tai.
Indeed. That's why I looooove character development. Well, since the start, I kind figure that she will be more masculine than feminine.
Shun, eh? Indeed I am curious about it too.
It will be tough I think. Asen is counted as antagonist, and so far, Ono-sensei does not seem to be the type to write from that kind of POV.
I'll start reading that soon.
Anyway, I just realized something after reading Tonan no Tsubasa. Don't you think it is interesting that the kingdoms that last the longest are actually those that are ran by cooperation of many people? Like in Sou, the whole family rules, while in En, the ministers (with Shouryuu and Rokuta "forced" to participate) rule.
It's sad considering the fact that Mrs. Takasato's resentment towards Taiki was a gradual process. She initially treated him kindly by offering to leave meat out from his plate (until her husband told her not to), and it was only until the rumours of the curse surfaced that she began to fear and detest him.Quote:
If only there was someone who Taiki could trust and confide in, but it was too late by the time Hirose came along.
I don't mind romance at all! I'll put Saiunkoku on my to-read/to-watch list then.Quote:
How/where did you read the 12K translations? I'm interested to see whether there were any changes made due to difficulties and certain limitations translating from Japanese to English. I'm sure the translator did a good job though.Quote:
I've been browsing the Twelve Kingdoms wiki, and the information on it are accurate from what I've seen... at least compared to most fan Wikis out there.
I certainly hope so! I'd love to see more politics in fantasy- not only in young adult light novels but also in manga/anime/Western media as well.Quote:
*fingers crossed* I can even handle a drama CD if a re-boot of the anime is a tall order. Kamiyan is an easy-going guy IRL so that's why I can picture him voicing Rikou. I'm more familiar with Namikawa Daisuke's deep/villainous voice, but he can work too! Now I'm trying to think of seiyuus for other non-animated characters such as Ranjou, Hanrin and Asen.Quote:
You brought up an interesting point about Rikou being ruthless. Since he's 600+ years old, I think he'd seen a lot of wonderful and terrible things that people are capable of doing. Both of us are only 22 years old, but in our lifetime we've already witnessed quite a number of human achievements and atrocities that are making headlines in the news. Rikou has been alive for much longer so I'm sure he witnessed countless events that influenced himself and how he perceives the world.
Even though we've seen snippets of the royal family of Sou, I'm interested in learning more about them too! I was surprised to learn that Rikou's father wasn't the oldest reigning monarch so it will be interesting to see whether he'll manage to break the record.
BTW, do you think Rikou knows about Fuukan's true identity in the Kizan short story? It was ambiguous when I read the original, but it may have been clearer in the translation.
I'm glad you enjoyed it! Out of all the novels, I think this is the one that's best classified as an adventure story.Quote:
Reading Tonan no Tsubasa provides a deeper understanding as to why Shushou treated Shoukei the way she did: Shushou went through a lot in Koukai where she faced youma and countless other dangers out of duty for her kingdom. Even though she's well beyond her years, I liked how Ono-sensei still showed us that she's still a twelve year old girl. It would be unrealistic for Shushou to wield a weapon and fend for herself considering her age and family background so that's why she needed Gankyuu and Rikou to protect her.
I think Kyou would be in danger if Shushou was paired up with someone like Rokuta or if Kyouki was paired up with a laid back ruler like Ren-ou. Shushou with Keiki would be a disaster for sure. Shushou and Kyouki balance each other out, and it's probably why Kyou is doing well even though their ruler will forever be a child.
It's amazing how Kouya went from an abandoned child who couldn't speak properly to an individual revered as a god. (I wonder if he'll ever return to En. ) I want to see more of him as Kenrou Shinkun in future novels/short stories, and I also wish to learn more about the Koukai village. Even if the village remains a mystery, I hope there would be a character who was born and raised in Koukai.
I like how a personality of the kirin is shown in the shade of gold mane they have: Rokuta's mane is a lot more brighter and warmer compared to Keiki's.Quote:
Han is interesting because we know what the king and taiho are like but not the kingdom itself. I wonder if the citizens of Han all dress as extravagantly as their ruler. All the palaces that were featured in the anime had beautiful architecture and scenery, and I expect the palace of Han to be even more gorgeous.Quote:
I love character development too! It's great seeing the characters grow and learn how to become better people. It's possible that Youko was always meant to be a tomboy but had to repress her true self because of her strict father.Quote:
We know nothing about Shun or what the ruler/kirin is like so I'm dying to know what's going on in that kingdom! It seems to have closed itself off from the rest of the world sort of like Japan before the Meiji era.Quote:
That's true. I don't think we have the POV of antagonists so far. Asen is a fascinating character because of just how effective he is in controlling Tai.
Interesting observation! Although there's no such thing as democracy in the the government, I think it's helpful to have a system where different people are able to voice their opinions with the king having the final say. However, it seems as if this backfired with You-ou. It's possible that in her case, she didn't bother to weed out the bad ministers from the good before letting them run the country.Quote:
Well, even if it's only the two of us, at least we have a place to discuss!
Saiunkoku's anime fare better than TK, as it has two long seasons. Check them out too!
I actually watched the anime first before I read the LN...
http://www.eugenewoodbury.com/, while the short stories from here: http://o6asan.com/. I think there are other links, but I don't remember them anymore...
I think the fact that he often travels the world and meets a lot of people only adds to his experience. Somehow I feel that even though Rikou is the most outgoing person in his family, he is also the most ruthless.
I really hope that his family will continue to prosper... I don't want to see their family to fall into ruin.
The translation was written like this:
And when I read further, I think they do know each other's identities. What's with the jabs at En-ou making wager against heaven and at Royal Prince of Sou killing the Sou-ou. When they part ways, Fuukan actually says that he has made a wager. So, yeah, not only they know each other's identities, but they also know that they know.
Well, just imagine Shushou and Enki. That will go beyond disaster.
Yeah, I'm amazed at how in such short time (only a few centuries), he becomes something like god. I'm curious at how it happens, but I have a feeling it better remains as a mystery because that's who Kenrou Shinkun is. A mystery.
Kouya might return. Remember the promise En-ou make to him? When that is fulfilled, then maybe they'll meet each other again. Though I wonder if it can ever be fulfilled...
I'm even more surprised that he rules for almost three hundred years... Makes me wonder. Here is another eccentric ruler with long reign.
I'm interested to see an antagonist's POV mostly because in this world, an antagonist may not be as bad as we think.
I think in You-ou's case, it's also because she knows little about leadership. Before becoming En-ou, Shouryuu was already a leader so he knows how to recognize the capable people who can help him.
Last edited by yukihime03; July 21, 2014 at 04:55 AM.
That's true. What makes the series great is that there are still a lot of topics to talk about regardless of how long it's been since the last novel was released.
Definitely. After everything he went through, I'm glad he was able to return to his true home. His mental and emotional strength is phenomenal.Quote:
Upon further inspection, Keiki (Koyasu Takehito) is starring in Saiunkoku too! It's funny to see similarities with the two series other than the ancient Chinese setting.Quote:
Do you recommend me to start with the LN or the anime?
No problem, and thank you for the links! There are a lot of names, places and terms that use uncommon kanji so I applaud the translators who took the time to work on the novels and short stories.Quote:
I searched Fai on Youtube, and I can picture that NamiDai as Rikou. I personally imagined Rikou as having Izaya's voice (Durarara) but sounding A LOT nicer. It's funny how we both imagined Rikou to sound like dark characters.Quote:
Outgoing but ruthless… this fits Rikou surprisingly well. IIRC Gankyuu mentioned how Rikou's smile seemed fake. On the surface Rikou seems like a cheerful, sociable guy but there's something beneath the smile.
Me too. Since Sou is governed by the entire royal family, the most likely situation I can see where Sou goes into ruins is if their family dynamic falls apart whether it's brought upon by themselves or other people. It can happen in a seemingly non-harmless way: one family member (but not Sou-ou) steps down by deciding to live as a normal citizen; the absence of that particular family member will create a gap that will be difficult to fill in.
Fuukan and Rikou knowing each other's identity without mentioning anything about it makes me appreciate their friendship even more. It's like a secret that's not so secret.Quote:
It helps that their respective kingdoms are situated in the north and south so they can share details that the other may not know.
Shushou's father also tried to protect his daughter from reality -in this case, it was youma attacking civilians- but Shushou was aware of the horrors and acknowledged it. I think Shoukei would have been in a better position after Hou-ou's death if she was a little more cynical and demanded the truth during her father's reign. It was too late of course, but she still managed to learn from her mistakes.Quote:
Yup. Shushou + Enki = terrible idea.
In Hyouhaku, Kouya is mentioned to still be under the sennin registry of En. The story takes place eighty or so years after Atsuyu's rebellion so how he became a god by Tonan no Tsubasa is a mystery. It's implied that Kenroun Shinkun has some sort of a connection with the heavens. My theory is that tensen such as Gyokuyou are handpicked by Tentei much like how a ruler chooses the members of their court.Quote:
I'm surprised that Kouya hasn't come back after 500 years; perhaps there's still something lacking in En even after all these years.
Speaking of which, I wonder if white and red kirin have the same symbolic meaning as a black kirin. Black is considered lucky, and I wonder what the other colours would mean for a kirin.Quote:
Ranjou seems to be a calculating type: he was the first to come up with the idea that Taiki was missing his horns, and it's possible that he was able to determine what the strengths of Han were and how he can play that strength to his advantage. Han's artistic skills are found in various kingdoms so I'm sure it made the kingdom's economy propser.Quote:
It's definitely worth it to observe the character development. People seem to have a lot of issues with Suzu, but she also grows into a better person over the course of Kaze no Banri.Quote:
It's understandable that Ryuuki wouldn't participate in the Taiki search considering Ryuu's state, but it's a mystery why Shun wouldn't. Shun was merely glossed over in the Sou family discussion in Kizan.Quote:
Antagonists such as Atsuyu and Shoukou (in the anime) did what they did because they had doubts about the existence of heaven. I have a feeling that Asen would have similar doubts.
That makes sense. Different ways of governing can work, and it's all up to the ruler to decide what works for them and their kingdom since there is no right method. (In a similar vein, there are a lot of ways to bring a kingdom down.)Quote:
I think every ruler has the potential to become a good ruler. If You-ou was able to gain confidence in herself and learned how to rule a country, there's a possibility that she could have ruled longer than she did.
Yep, indeed the series has a rich plot and characters.
Maybe you should watch the anime first, you might not understand some things because they're left out, but you'll appreciate that excluded bits when you read the LN.
Or maybe like Shouryuu's theory, Rikou just have enough and starts murdering his family... though that will be a very tragic outcome and not one I hope to happen.
They are an unlikely pair, though rather similar in some aspects, but they sure can use each other.
But yeah, Shoukei finally sees the world as it is, arguably in a more adventurous way than Shushou.
I can't even imagine them meeting each other.
He seems to be a very capable ruler as well, with his kingdom being the third longest reign.
Probably. It could have been something personal too.
Right now Taiki is focused solely on finding Gyousou and trying to get Tai back on track. When the storm has subsided and the situation in Tai is much calmer, I think he will reminisce back to the new "missing" years, which were the six years he spent in Hourai. He's a kirin after all so he will think of others before he thinks of himself.
Yeah, Koyasu is definitely a versitile seiyuu. I'm glad he was picked as Keiki because I can't think of any other person who would fit the role. The sighing is perfect.Quote:
Thanks for the suggestion! I'll check out the anime and will read the LN once I'm done.
Exactly. This just makes me want to read a novel with Rikou as the protagonist and all the adventures he went through.Quote:
After reading Rikou's theory about En-ou -which made a lot of sense considering how Shoryuu likes to take chances- I initially thought Shouryuu's theory was far-fetched. Rikou striking down his father/the king seemed OOC at first, but the theory began to sound plausible after our conversation.
It's funny when you consider the fact that Shouryuu has been to Sou and met the king/Rikou's father at least once. There was a time when they could have met at an official setting, but naturally Rikou wouldn't have been present. However, I do think it's smart that they both stay quiet since it's not a good idea for the king and a prince to be spying on other people's kingdoms.Quote:
Since Shushou's debut was Kaze no Banri instead of Tonan no Tsubasa, she was was most likely created to serve as a foil to Shoukei- why else have a child queen if not to compare the two?Quote:
She does know that Enki appears as a child so it's possible that the have met before?
Nevertheless Kouya should be impressed that the slackers have managed to rule a country for this long. His lecture to Shushou about what a king is might give a clue as to how he views En-ou several centuries later.Quote:
I guess the only way to find out are by stories taking place in the past; however, I feel as if we haven't touched upon the current timeline as much. I'm still interested though!!Quote:
The fact that he's able to have the third longest reign speaks volumes about what kind of a ruler he is despite the odd mannerisms. It's smart of him to export his kingdom's goods and services to other kingdoms.Quote:
Definitely. This explains why very few rulers are able to rebound after their kirin has shitsudou.Quote:
Tell me what you think about it when you've watched it! Maybe we can have a thread for Saiunkoku LN later.
At actually Rikou's theory was spot on, as Shouryuu admits that he has done that, but what makes me laugh is that Shouryuu admits how the whole thing struck him as silly, so he probably won't do that again. But we still don't know if Shouryuu's theory might come to pass...
Indeed. It's interesting that they don't send other people, but actually come by themselves to see things with their own eyes.
Now I'm dying to know how it goes.
I also have a feeling that Rikou's novel will have that tone: comedic to... something else. Even though Rikou is cheerful and approachable, it's interesting how he seems to always travel alone (with Shushou and Gankyuu as an exception). It may have to do with him being immortal and making it difficult to find a travel companion; however, his solitary travels struck me as odd for someone as sociable as he is.Quote:
It's just another example of, "I know who you are and I know that you know who I am, but I won't say anything".
I can totally picture Rikou either not coming to the coronation or arriving late.Quote:
Perhaps once the kingdoms are stable and at peace like En and Sou, the rulers begin to concern themselves with issues going on outside their kingdom. En in particular needs to be especially aware of what's going on around them since they have to prepare for refugees from unstable kingdoms.
I wonder about that too. Especially when Kouya has become a god and is in a similar position (?) as Shouryuu and Rokuta; the people of Koukai revere Kouya much like how a citizen of En would revere Shouryuu and Rokuta.Quote:
Out of curiosity if you were to be a citizen in a kingdom, which one would you choose? Personality-wise I think I will fit in with Ren or Sou, but I can't handle hot weather so perhaps I'd be more suited for Sai.Quote:
Or maybe he's just that free-spirited. I can understand the feeling of wanting to travel alone as that means you have more freedom to move about, because your decision will not affect others. If you just wake up one day and suddenly feeling like going somewhere else right at that time, you can just get up, pack your belongings and move, no need to wait for the other person. When you travel with someone else, there are a lot of decisions to be made together, and that can be too troublesome.
Hmm. I see. Or maybe they're just that nosy. Hahahaha~
But talking about climate, probably I'm more suited for Ren or Sou, as I've lived all my life in a tropical country, so hot weather is a daily thing for me.
Ah, those are good points. I have a feeling that if Fuukan wasn't a king (but was still a sennin), he and Rikou would have travelled together. If there was a fork in the road, they would most likely walk along different paths though.Quote:
I can picture that scenario happening.Quote:
I wonder if the key to success in ruling a kingdom is to be nosy. It would be cool if a 12K equivalent of an intelligence organization like the FBI can be created. (If it doesn't go against Tentei's will, of course.)
The description of Kenrou Shinkun was that he protects anyone who enters the Yellow Sea so it's likely that he's more popular than the king and saiho of En who are only relevant to its citizens.Quote:
It's nice that Kouya is able to turn his life around since he used to assassinate people by using his youma- it's a subtle yet still noticeable character development.
Maybe Ren would be the most fitting choice? Ren-ou doesn't necessary slack off (I don't think), but he doesn't seem the type to enjoy or engage much in politics as well.Quote:
Perhaps when we get more information about the kingdoms, I can create a quiz about which kingdom would suit someone. I remember that the people of Tai are known to be hot-blooded, and I would love to what the characteristics are for the rest.
Sorry, I took so long to reply.
Well, nosy to a level is actually good of course, as long as you don't interfere. By being nosy, you can actually learn a lot of things.
I don't think Tentei will agree to something like FBI though...
Well, the question is only whether we will ever know more...
Yup! A short story about their first encounter would be really interesting to read. How did they meet, and what was the world like when they first met?Quote:
The fact that there hasn't been a UN-like organization set up implies that Tentei doesn't really want much interaction between the kingdoms. A kingdom spying on other kingdoms would definitely be frowned upon.Quote:
I read that our world is like the ocean where living things can move around freely whereas the 12K world is like an aquarium where an outsider (i.e. Tentei) controls everything in it.
Yeah. He's been longing for human interaction for so long that he grew attached to the one person who seemed to care for him. It's just too bad that the person was Atsuyu; if it was someone else who raised him or if Kouya decided to go to Rokuta earlier, things might have turned out differently.Quote:
Since Ren's king is a farmer, I wonder if the country has become agriculture oriented much like how Han has become a kingdom of artisans.Quote:
I'd like to know what's going on in Shun at least or what things are like in Tai. Hopefully Ono-sensei can be inspired to write again.
I just started to get into the twelve kingdoms lately. super glad that this thread exists! however, i'm waiting to acquire the physical novel instead of reading the fan translations. however, it seems like there's no plan on the english release of the volumes beyond the fourth one?
Hope you enjoy the series, and please check back to the thread!
...oh wait, Ren doesn't have extremely corrupted government.
I hope so too.
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