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View Poll Results: Who wins?

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Thread: Bleach Tournament Semi Finals: Unohana vs Ichigo

  1. #1
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Hakuteiken's Avatar
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    Bleach Bleach Tournament Semi Finals: Unohana vs Ichigo


    Don't forget to read the rules first before you proceed. You can click on character names below pictures to go to their Bleach wiki article for more information.

    SEMI FINALS

    Welcome to the Semi Finals of championship fights of the second Bleach Tournament!
    Here are the contestants who will battle against each other to advance to the next round in the championship bracket:




    Will it be the ever-healing Zanjutsu master or will it be the embodiment of determination? Let the clashing begin!

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    Registered User 九千以上だ! / Kyuusen Ijou Da! / It's Over 9000! mattiaildivino's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Tournament Semi Finals: Unohana vs Ichigo

    Ichigo's level is much above unohana's. He was above aizen and Yamamoto,not to mention we still don't know what her bankai do. I vote for ichigo, though for the moment we can't vote...

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    Re: Bleach Tournament Semi Finals: Unohana vs Ichigo

    Yeah, in two brute fighter's fight the pure strength and speed wins. Unohana doesn't stand a chance. Man, I wish Ichigo got taken out by Ichigo in last fight. Fights would be more exciting. But people don't like reading rules and just keep going about Ichigo's Blut, that he shouldn't have had... >.<

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Zeta42's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Tournament Semi Finals: Unohana vs Ichigo

    Unohana has a hax bankai, Ichigo can't really counter something like that. Even without that, Unohana is the best damn swordsman in the whole Gotei. Sorry, Strawberry, time for you to leave this tournament.

    Oh, and where's the poll?

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    Re: Bleach Tournament Semi Finals: Unohana vs Ichigo

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeta42 View Post
    Unohana has a hax bankai, Ichigo can't really counter something like that. Even without that, Unohana is the best damn swordsman in the whole Gotei. Sorry, Strawberry, time for you to leave this tournament.

    Oh, and where's the poll?
    Seriously, we have no idea what Unohana's bankai is so far. We saw one panel of release, bunch of metaphoric pages, that can't prove anything, as on the next panel they were completely ok in the same clash

    http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/526/10

    After that, they were completely fine and were fighting normally. Unohana was still in bankai.

    http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/526/15

    I don't know if we can say ANYTHING about Unohana's bankai. We'll see it soon I guess. Showing one panel of ability and letting character die? It's shounen manga dammit! We'll see Minazuki in action.

    As much as I want Ichigo to lose, he shouldn't lose that clash.

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    Re: Bleach Tournament Semi Finals: Unohana vs Ichigo

    Going with ichigo. Ichigo is way faster then unohana going by feats. That's an stark tier speed feat right there. Ichigo moved so fast that it appeared he just teleported away infront of 3 sternritters. With a torn body at that..

    Durability I would give to ichigo as well given he can swat away 6 heilg pfeil from a stenritter barehanded.

    The problem lies within the CQC aspect of her.

    Although I believe ichigo is quite a good deal superior to unpatched kenpachi given his Getsuga thensou could givethe realJuha Bach comparable damage to what yama did to the fake bach. While the fake bach stomped unpatched kenpachi appearantly barehanded. The question I asked if can anybody see bankai ichigo killing kenpachi several times while the latter get's stronger in the process. Unohana did this in base(which bankai ichigo might still be superior to given his feats against bach and she still has bankai Though the fact that ichigo actually fought the real bach in CQC with a sword should place him massively above kenpachi. Though I'd give unohana the edge in cqc given her bankai.


    I believe ichigo with his pretty good spead feats and pretty wide getsuga thensou should be able to delfect the melting liquid albeit with difficult. So I'd give it to ichigo with extreme difficulty. Ichigo's speed,wide getsuga thensou and durability(no blut) should allow him to edge out unohana.

    Even if he's inferior to her in CQC.
    Last edited by Kuroi Getsu; July 31, 2013 at 07:35 AM.

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    Re: Bleach Tournament Semi Finals: Unohana vs Ichigo

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuroi Getsu View Post
    Going with ichigo. Ichigo is way faster then unohana going by feats. That's an stark tier speed feat right there. Ichigo moved so fast that it appeared he just teleported away infront of 3 sternritters. With a torn body at that..

    Durability I would give to ichigo as well given he can swat away 6 heilg pfeil from a stenritter barehanded.

    The problem lies within the CQC aspect of her.

    Although I believe ichigo is quite a good deal superior to unpatched kenpachi given his Getsuga thensou could givethe realJuha Bach comparable damage to what yama did to the fake bach. While the fake bach stomped unpatched kenpachi appearantly barehanded. The question I asked if can anybody see bankai ichigo killing kenpachi several times while the latter get's stronger in the process. Unohana did this in base(which bankai ichigo might still be superior to given his feats against bach and she still has bankai Though the fact that ichigo actually fought the real bach in CQC with a sword should place him massively above kenpachi. Though I'd give unohana the edge in cqc given her bankai.


    I believe ichigo with his pretty good spead feats and pretty wide getsuga thensou should be able to delfect the melting liquid albeit with difficult. So I'd give it to ichigo with extreme difficulty. Ichigo's speed,wide getsuga thensou and durability(no blut) should allow him to edge out unohana.
    Anything that happened after Ichigo's fight with Kirge shouldn't be taken into account. While having Blut Vene and Arterie, his attacks got considerably stronger. If you say, that it's the same power level as in fight with Kirge, you're basically saying Kirge could wound Juha as well. Not happening. Ichigo struggled against Kirge (and we have to take THAT Ichigo into account), Kenpachi killed 3 SRs with ease, Unohana is far above Kenpachi, she could probably annihilate half of SRs with pure speed and swordmanship. Kirge had Vollstandig and Allon, so I still think Ichigo is faster and stronger than Unohana. It's just your justification shouldn't even mention Ichigo after his fight with Kirge at all. And everything you wrote bases on it.

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    Re: Bleach Tournament Semi Finals: Unohana vs Ichigo

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    Anything that happened after Ichigo's fight with Kirge shouldn't be taken into account. While having Blut Vene and Arterie, his attacks got considerably stronger. If you say, that it's the same power level as in fight with Kirge, you're basically saying Kirge could wound Juha as well. Not happening. Ichigo struggled against Kirge (and we have to take THAT Ichigo into account), Kenpachi killed 3 SRs with ease, Unohana is far above Kenpachi, she could probably annihilate half of SRs with pure speed and swordmanship. Kirge had Vollstandig and Allon, so I still think Ichigo is faster and stronger than Unohana. It's just your justification shouldn't even mention Ichigo after his fight with Kirge at all. And everything you wrote bases on it.
    Yeah no.

    Remember the blade is me chapter? Zangetsu only unlocked ichigo's blut vene? Ichigo is never shown or implied to have used blut artereie. Bankai ichigo was whaling down on Kirge even Uruhara says it,heck even kirge question how ichigo is surpassing him so easily. Kirge's attacks got swatted away easily, Kirge was actually running away from him.. Bankai Ichigo was massively superior to Kirge to the point that he couldn't believe it. Kirge was a vollstandige sternritter and had the added power of allon. Are you going to tell me that ichigo who was stomping kirge by his own admission and even ran away with all that power can't make a joke of a base sternritter?. The only reason kirge survived is because kirge was running away blocking his attacks with great effort and was constantly accesing his blut with the added power of allon. Ichigo used getsuga enhanced strikes that were constantly blocked or evadedI. Kirge is only shown to full block a regular strike from ichigo. All other strikes were just evaded or blocked. Ichigo smacked Juha bach with a point blank getsuga thensou. The ichigo that fought kirge is the same that fought Juha Bach besides Juha bach wasn't figthing seriously however he sure as well was using a godamn sword. This alone is way more effort then stomping another dude barehanded wouldn't ya think?

    Zaraki=getting stomped barehanded by fake juha bach
    Ichigo=fends of the real Juha Bach using a sword with great effort but he can still stand.

    Even if the real Juha Bach wasn't fighting at full power he did wanted to stab him in the neck which implies he wasn't taken it that casually either.

    The difference is that this ichigo doesn't have blut vene.
    Last edited by Kuroi Getsu; July 31, 2013 at 08:29 AM.

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    Re: Bleach Tournament Semi Finals: Unohana vs Ichigo

    To be honest, I'm going Unohana on this. Undoubtedly, Ichigo is going to get some massive power-up during the current arc, but until that happens I don't see him being able to handle Unohana. Ichigo doesn't have sufficient feats using the state set out in the terms of the tournament to handle Unohana, so far he's dominated against a sternritter, that's pretty much it, and immediately after that he got stomped on. Unohana trolled unpatched Kenpachi, who'd taken out three sternritters without a scratch, with casual ease over and over, and kept on bringing him back from the edge of death over and over, and kept on keeping on. She has the intellect, the skill, and the power to bring Ichigo down. Her bankai remains somewhat clouded in mystery, but the general consensus seems to be an attack that corrodes in some fashion, I'd say it's an added bonus along with her extensive healing capabilities.

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    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Hakuteiken's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Tournament Semi Finals: Unohana vs Ichigo

    I'd go with Unohana in this one. Ichigo, like Kenpachi, fights relying more on his instincts, while Unohana has massive experience with countless swordsmanship styles. While over the time this proves to be advantageous for instinctive fighters since their bodies become capable of reacting to their opponents, in a fight with killer intent, I don't think Unohana would give Ichigo that time for him to come up with anything.
    So, in my opinion, this is one of those fights where the one who has more innate strength does not necessarily end up winning.

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    Re: Bleach Tournament Semi Finals: Unohana vs Ichigo

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuroi Getsu View Post
    Yeah no.

    Remember the blade is me chapter? Zangetsu only unlocked ichigo's blut vene? Ichigo is never shown or implied to have used blut artereie.
    Yeah, I do. "You used Quincy Blut to prevent mine from spilling". Is there VENE in that sentence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuroi Getsu View Post
    Bankai ichigo was whaling down on Kirge even Uruhara says it,heck even kirge question how ichigo is surpassing him so easily. Kirge's attacks got swatted away easily, Kirge was actually running away from him.. Bankai Ichigo was massively superior to Kirge to the point that he couldn't believe it. Kirge was a vollstandige sternritter and had the added power of allon. Are you going to tell me that ichigo who was stomping kirge by his own admission and even ran away with all that power can't make a joke of a base sternritter?.
    Nah, I'm just saying Urahara said they were equal, then he said "No, actually, Kurosaki is pushing him". Then Kirge said how he Ichigo surpasses him, and he said for what particular reason. The strength of attacks isn't much, it's speed that is dangerous. And we're talking about POWER of attacks there, right?


    Quote Originally Posted by Kuroi Getsu View Post
    The ichigo that fought kirge is the same that fought Juha Bach besides Juha bach wasn't figthing seriously however he sure as well was using a godamn sword. This alone is way more effort then stomping another dude barehanded wouldn't ya think?
    I seem to have missed Kenpachi being defeated barehandedly! Show me some panels, OK? And I'm not talking about Juha holding Kenpachi by his throat, it's a result. Juha could have cut Kenpachi, hide his sword, approach him and lift him up by his throat, and we saw that. If you can't prove Kenpachi was beaten barehandedly, don't say that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuroi Getsu View Post
    Zaraki=getting stomped barehanded by fake juha bach
    Ichigo=fends of the real Juha Bach using a sword with great effort but he can still stand.
    You know the real difference? Why Ichigo COULD attack Juha? Because of Blut Vene. Without Blut Vene he would be owned in an instant.

    http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...7-page-14.html

    Wait, isn't it Juha's HAND? And then Juha's blocking Ichigo's attack on his left eye? To be frank, you should change your comparison.

    Zaraki- getting BEATEN in unknown circumstances
    Ichigo- being stomped barehandedly, being taken out in one attack, alive thanks to Blut Vene.

    Also, gets his bankai taken out in ONE hit, and Haschwald is really confident he can kill him whenever the hell he wants.


    Hakuteiken: Experience doesn't really help on that level of battle. Ichigo has plenty experience himself, not in swordmanship, in battle. There is a reason, why they are weight classes in martial arts. Experience or not, skill or not, if difference in speed and strength is enough, battle is pointless. Well, it's not lost cause, but it's highly disadvantegous.
    Last edited by Duniak; July 31, 2013 at 12:34 PM.

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    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member Hakuteiken's Avatar
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    Re: Bleach Tournament Semi Finals: Unohana vs Ichigo

    Well, what I meant by experience was rather mastery there. Ichigo doesn't depend on Zanjutsu styles to get through his battles. If Ichigo can overwhelm his opponents through sheer speed and strength, then yes, of course, that lack of style never kicks in, as he one-shots people around. I just don't see Unohana being steamrolled with that ease and could make her mastery count for real in this fight.

    That said, I do agree with your point regarding Unohana's Bankai. Its power wasn't thoroughly explained and we can only theorize about a rather vague corrosion concept. It kind of makes it difficult to call whether it's a good counter for a certain opponent or not.

    Regarding blut matter;
    It's not shown or ruled out that Ichigo has blut arterie, therefore, we can't assume which way it is. However, we can assume that Ichigo only used blut vene subconsciously, meaning that he cannot subconsciously boost his attacks with arterie, but that's just a theory of mine.

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    Re: Bleach Tournament Semi Finals: Unohana vs Ichigo

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    Yeah, I do. "You used Quincy Blut to prevent mine from spilling". Is there VENE in that sentence?
    Appeal to ignorance.

    Yeah no

    Is Kubo Obliged to use vene for us to not know that the defensive propertians are used. Zangetsu used blut to stop the bleeding? What do you think which version is used? Not to mention that you litterally see two panels in wich ichigo blocks an attack and either get's his bleeding stopped. Only blut vene can do things like that. Seemed obvious to me

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    Nah, I'm just saying Urahara said they were equal, then he said "No, actually, Kurosaki is pushing him". Then Kirge said how he Ichigo surpasses him, and he said for what particular reason. The strength of attacks isn't much, it's speed that is dangerous. And we're talking about POWER of attacks there, right?
    Twisting words now? Kirge is no match for ichigo

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    I seem to have missed Kenpachi being defeated barehandedly! Show me some panels, OK? And I'm not talking about Juha holding Kenpachi by his throat, it's a result. Juha could have cut Kenpachi, hide his sword, approach him and lift him up by his throat, and we saw that. If you can't prove Kenpachi was beaten barehandedly, don't say that.
    Faie enough. However we no for sure that Royd Lloyd stomped him casually

    Juha Bach cannot hold back against ichigo. He said so himself. Juha bach needs to release atleast his power. Ichigo actually blocked his attacks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duniak View Post
    You know the real difference? Why Ichigo COULD attack Juha? Because of Blut Vene. Without Blut Vene he would be owned in an instant.

    http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...7-page-14.html

    Wait, isn't it Juha's HAND? And then Juha's blocking Ichigo's attack on his left eye? To be frank, you should change your comparison.

    Zaraki- getting BEATEN in unknown circumstances
    Ichigo- being stomped barehandedly, being taken out in one attack, alive thanks to Blut Vene.

    Also, gets his bankai taken out in ONE hit, and Haschwald is really confident he can kill him whenever the hell he wants.
    That's situational caused by the black smoke. Notice how ichigo can actually react to Juha Bach and block his strike?. Royd lloyd has the physical strength to withstand a blow from yamamoto without even using his sword. Juha Bach swung his blade and ichigo blocked most of it. Ichigo can react to juha bach and block his strikes. However juha had to self admittely released his power to actually blitz and grapple ichigo. Juha bach actually needs to put some effort to take down ichigo. Royd Lloyd stomped kenpachi zaraki casually.

    And no don't give me the whole unknown circumstances things. Thats ignorant. Royd Loyd expressed his dissapointment and even called zaraki weak highly impling that he stomped kenpachi., Base Juha Bach cannot stomp ichigo wihout atleast putting some effort. Royd Lloyd stomped kenpachi easily. Blut vene isn't responble for actually damaging Juha Bach,reacting to juha bach and deflecting strikes from a juha bach that relased his power? Ichigo has way better offensive feats then kenpachi. And he'd kick his ass anyday. Ichigo actually gave juha's hand some nasty burns. If kenpachi get's hit by that's he's a goner and so unohana probably or at the very least she'd take quite some damage.

    Ichigo having blut vene doesn't discredit ichigo's reactions or attacks. You don't need blut vene to attack do you?

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    Re: Bleach Tournament Semi Finals: Unohana vs Ichigo

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuroi Getsu View Post
    Is Kubo Obliged to use vene for us to not know that the defensive propertians are used. Zangetsu used blut to stop the bleeding? What do you think which version is used? Not to mention that you litterally see two panels in wich ichigo blocks an attack and either get's his bleeding stopped. Only blut vene can do things like that. Seemed obvious to me
    Okay, so we have Quincy ability Blut, that can be used in TWO ways. Blut Arterie and Blut Vene. It is not really difficult to understand, that those are basically veins and artieries. It's one system, but you can put reishi only in one of them. "Activating Blut" doesn't mean ONLY BLUT VENE was activated. Ichigo used Blut Vene subconciously, so why wouldn't he use Blut Arterie? Is it stated, that Juhgetsu activated only half of a system, only Blut Vene? If it is, please, show me panels.

    Quote Quote:
    Twisting words now? Kirge is no match for ichigo
    Did I say he was? It's just not that much of a difference, that's why I talked about Urahara... geez. Who's twisting whose words? That panel still doesn't do anything to my point, that speed was much more dangerous than strength of attacks.


    Quote Quote:
    Fair enough. However we no for sure that Royd Lloyd stomped him casually
    And his brother got stomped by Juha. We'll never know how Royd was able to fight Yama and how much of Juha's blood did he have to drink to get so strong defensive Blut, that could hold against Yamaji's Shikai.


    Quote Quote:
    Juha Bach cannot hold back against ichigo. He said so himself. Juha bach needs to release at least his power. Ichigo actually blocked his attacks.
    He said, that he would launch a thrust, as Blut won't help him this time. Of course he would need to use his power. Last time he tried that it didn't really work, right? His thrust to Ichigo's throat was stopped by his Blut Vene.

    Btw, that block was not really useful. Block and dodge is used to counterattack, that "block" was just a reflex, that wasn't really meaningful. He would have his throat torn open anyway.

    Quote Quote:
    That's situational caused by the black smoke. Notice how ichigo can actually react to Juha Bach and block his strike?. Royd lloyd has the physical strength to withstand a blow from yamamoto without even using his sword. Juha Bach swung his blade and ichigo blocked most of it. Ichigo can react to juha bach and block his strikes. However juha had to self admittely released his power to actually blitz and grapple ichigo. Juha bach actually needs to put some effort to take down ichigo. Royd Lloyd stomped kenpachi zaraki casually.
    Juha wanted to check if he really did see Blut Vene. Of course he wouldn't oneshot Ichigo to see it. He didn't "use his power" yet, right? And your "black smoke" was made by Ichigo and his GT, that didn't do ANY damage to Juha. Where did he say, that he had to use his power to grapple Ichigo to get into mounting position? Never saw it. If your "effort" is using anything that involves your reiatsu than it is not really a feat. Fighting like a human without strengthening your attacks with your abilities can't be really considered fighting, right? And we can't say if fully powered Royd, that uses Juha's techniques and strength is weaker than Juha that is not using his powers at all.

    Quote Quote:
    And no don't give me the whole unknown circumstances things. Thats ignorant. Royd Loyd expressed his dissapointment and even called zaraki weak highly impling that he stomped kenpachi., Base Juha Bach cannot stomp ichigo wihout atleast putting some effort. Royd Lloyd stomped kenpachi easily. Blut vene isn't responble for actually damaging Juha Bach,reacting to juha bach and deflecting strikes from a juha bach that relased his power? Ichigo has way better offensive feats then kenpachi. And he'd kick his ass anyday. Ichigo actually gave juha's hand some nasty burns. If kenpachi get's hit by that's he's a goner and so unohana probably or at the very least she'd take quite some damage.
    Not Royd, it was Juha, the whole mind was copied. Along with experience and knowledge about techniques. His Blut Vene was probably boosted, so what's left to be as strong as real Juha? I guess his reiatsu wasn't as strong, but he is not "Royd". He is already Juha. Or 75% Juha.

    Also, what is yoru deal with that power? He never used it, as he used future tense before being trapped by Shadow... Any of his attacks used his power. Ichigo deflecting? Ichigo just had his sword up, that's all. His sword got blown away (his hand with a sword got), leaving him vulnerable, Juha grabbed his head and almost cut his throat. Really, where did he block anything? And I mean BLOCKED, not reacted or had his sword on a path of Juha's sword. By block I mean completely stop enemy's attack, nullyfing it's force.

    Quote Quote:
    Ichigo having blut vene doesn't discredit ichigo's reactions or attacks. You don't need blut vene to attack do you?
    And please, show me what does that sentence have to do with anything. Pretty please. I never said Ichigo was weak, did I? It's just your justification is just stupid for me. Also, it has NOTHING to do with tournament, really. We have no comparison between Unohana from when she fought Kenpachi. All we know is Kenpachi is a beast right now, and Unohana killed him countless times while he was still getting power-up. If you don't have anything to say on Unohana vs Ichigo matter, you better drop that topic, as we both know, that neither of us can be persuaded with our opinions.

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    Re: Bleach Tournament Semi Finals: Unohana vs Ichigo

    What we have seen of Unohana in that battle was pure sword fight, (in which Ichigo may beat her .... well not easily but still)
    Only advantage she have over ichigo is in Kido , in which Ichigo is 0 and she is pretty much a master. And we dont know if she can keep healing herself, if yes then this fight will go to her way, cause no matter what Ichigo does she ll heal herself. and if No then Ichigo will win.

    IMO its the later so Ichigo will win this contest.

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