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Translations: Bleach 600 (2)
Just because something is possibly of happening doesn't make it true.
Blut makes uses of two veins. We know ichigo unconciously filled reishi within his his blut vene. However assuming that ichigo nessisarly would would have unconsiously used his blut aterie simply because that vein is open is baseless. Just because something is there doesn't mean that he's using it or is able to use it in the first place espically considering his lack of skill. Ichigo litterally gave descriptions that could only be appliable with blut vene.
canonicly weaker than Juha Bach
Right here. Ichigo nulliflied a strike from Juha Bach with his sword and arm. And no before you bring blut vene. Up Blut vene isn't responsible for your your strength. It's true that Juha has yet to release his powere yet. My bad. Still Juha still swung his blade at ichigo and it got stopped completely. Nevermind that Juha Bach still took it serious enough to stab him in the neck. I'm sure that beats Royd Lloyd effortlessly stomping kenpachi or him blocking a strike with his arm. Unless you believe royd Lloyd barehanded can muster up more strength then the real Juha can while swinging his sword.
As you wish:
You know the real difference? Why Ichigo COULD attack Juha? Because of Blut Vene. Without Blut Vene he would be owned in an instant. ''
You don't attack with your blut vene for the umpteenth time.. All of ichigo's attacks are based on his own speed,reactions and power.
BTW: Did you forget what I said here?
''Going with ichigo. Ichigo is way faster then unohana going by feats. That's an stark tier speed feat right there. Ichigo moved so fast that it appeared he just teleported away infront of 3 sternritters. With a torn body at that..
Durability I would give to ichigo as well given he can swat away 6 heilg pfeil from a stenritter barehanded.
The problem lies within the CQC aspect of her.
Although I believe ichigo is quite a good deal superior to unpatched kenpachi given his Getsuga thensou could givethe realJuha Bach comparable damage to what yama did to the fake bach. While the fake bach stomped unpatched kenpachi appearantly barehanded. The question I asked if can anybody see bankai ichigo killing kenpachi several times while the latter get's stronger in the process. Unohana did this in base(which bankai ichigo might still be superior to given his feats against bach and she still has bankai Though the fact that ichigo actually fought the real bach in CQC with a sword should place him massively above kenpachi. Though I'd give unohana the edge in cqc given her bankai.
I believe ichigo with his pretty good spead feats and pretty wide getsuga thensou should be able to delfect the melting liquid albeit with difficult. So I'd give it to ichigo with extreme difficulty. Ichigo's speed,wide getsuga thensou and durability(no blut) should allow him to edge out unohana.''
I can't prove with panels that he certainly has it (it'd be overkill given his power, really...), and you can only try to prove that he doesn't have, showing that he only showed Blut Vene so far.
[QUOTE=Kuroi Getsu;3494895] Who's to say that you need to use your abilities to fight? Juha could easily have gone the CQC route which he appearantly did. Royd Lloyd casually blocked yamamoto's strike. So he clearly wasn't at full power there and certainly not against kenpachi.
Let's start with CQC... what the hell is that? That sentence makes so little sense to me, that I guess CQC is a vital part there. Royd blocked Yamaji's slash, so Royd wasn't at full power? Can you clarify that sentence?
1. You like that A>B>C logic while talking about Kenpachi, Royd, Ichigo and Juha, so let's use it. Kyoraku=Stark in terms of speed. Unohana>Kyoraku in terms of overall fighting power. Unohana is brute fighter, Kyoraku ability user. We can safely assume, that Unohana, as a First Kenpachi, is faster and stronger in terms of swordmanship than Kyoraku. So you have absolutely no proof, that Unohana isn't as fast as Ichigo there. Kenpachi killed 3 SRs with ease, speedblitzing two of them. Unohana is way above that. Show me a solid proof, that speed Ichigo showed there is unreachable for Unohana. And you know why this logic sucks? Because that justification I just showed would sound ridicoulous to you, just as your panels from Ichigo vs Juha and Juha>Royd>Kenpachi.
2. CQC aspect of her... again, what the hell is it?
3. Unohana's "melting" Bankai again... Show me proof, that her bankai actually melts something... xd We get one page of that while Kenpachi is saying about fight. Unohana takes damage as well, pretty useless Bankai if it was real, not metaphoric (like the whole fight, Kubo made it poetic). On the next page, they're fine, 4 pages later Unohana is still in Bankai and nothing melts. Why? She stopped using her ability despite Kenpachi being stronger? Why did she stop using it after ONE page? For me it was rather to show how they're lost in battle, everything else is irrelevant, just them and their swords, Kenpachi says how he was asleep, fight is consuming them. If Unohana used her power for 1 page and then ceased to use it on stronger Zaraki, I'll gladly call her a borderline idiot.
4. You do realize, that I adressed this whole part talking about way of justyfing your opinion with Juha, right?
Can a mod confirm - does Ichigo get access to Blut of any description, and if so does he get both?
I was under the impression he couldn't use it previously since it was so uncontrolled, but clarification would be nice...
Rule #5, point 4, Ichigo fights as when he fought Kirge. Thus, no Blut, as he acquired it after the fight by having Quincy reiatsu come back with his reiatsu after attacking Jail.
I'm siding with Unohana. Even Ichigo can't heal himself. Ichigo was about on par with Zaraki going by his battles with Sternritter. Zaraki took out 3, who may not be the strongest but 3 nonetheless. Unohana 'killed and resurrected' Zaraki how many times? There is no number but it seems to be something extremely high. Ichigo isn't on the same level. Unohana is at least on par with the Royal Guard imo. She probably has them beat as well since her title was Kenpachi before anyone, unless the royal realm gives those guys some magical powers or something. Just my opinion. I would say Unohana is the strongest character there is in this tournament.
Unohana Retsu : 10
Kurosaki Ichigo : 9
Unohana Retsu advances to the final.
You can discuss the results in Bleach Tournament Discussion Thread.