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Don't forget to read the rules first before you proceed. You can click on character names below pictures to go to their Bleach wiki article for more information.
Welcome to the Third Place decider of championship fights of the second Bleach Tournament!
Here are the contestants who will battle against each other to win third place in championship fights:
Hard choice. Ichigo is certainly stronger and faster, but Shunsui is MUCH more experienced, thus I'm sure he can deal with Ichigo's speed. Ichigo is an airhead, dealing with Shunsui's games can be difficult. On the other hand, his battle instincts are good and he can somehow manage to get a vague idea of how games are working. Too bad we haven't seen Kyoraku's Bankai. There'd be no contest I guess. Shunsui made SR use Grimaniel, wounded him badly, he'd have surely won if not for Yamaji's death. Kurosaki faired better against Kirge, not getting a single scratch, but the battle between Shunsui and Kyoraku wouldn't be decided by speed and power. Shunsui takes it IMO.
Impossibility: Sorry for not responding to your last post. Last 2 days I was pretty busy, that's why I could write maybe 1 reply a day. And today there are already new threads so we'll have to finish it another time.
Last edited by Duniak; August 10, 2013 at 11:19 AM.
Lool,so ichigo lost against unohana??? Ahahah,that's really funny. Well,he owns kyoraku as well.
@duniak,every opponent was more experienced than ichigo,yet all of them lost.
If Ichigo fought Barragan he'd get owned. If he fought Hachi, he'd win. But it was Hachi who could take Barragan down. That's why strength is useless against some ability-users. Shunsui is no pushover. He could fight roughly on par with Stark with just his shikai. Ichigo didn't stand a chance against Ulquiorra, he wouldn't have won against Nnoitra. Grimmjow was his limit. They were pretty much equal. Ichigo before post-dangai form was weakling compared to Shunsui. Is he all godly during his fight with Ginjo? Is the boost in power that great, that he is now stronger than everyone in Gotei 13? If Ichigo could only use his Shikai he wouldn't do anything against Kirge. Point-blank Getsuga didn't make Kirge flinch. And Shunsui's normal slash could make damage. Ichigo in Shikai is weaker than Shunsui in shikai. Ichigo isn't really that strong. What was strong was his post-Dangai form. Before Dangai he was being trashed by Gin. He hit Gin once, and Gin was just playing with him, throwing him all over the place.
Shunsui's games are enough to make Ichigo wonder what will happen next and how to react instead of attacking. Shunsui coming out of shadows and cutting him by saying "Black" is enough for Ichigo to worry about his life. He can be as fast as he wants, he will not one-shot Kyoraku, who could keep up with Stark, who could escape Ichigo and Kenpachi in HM with ease. Oh, there's Stark! He takes Orihime! Cut him! POOF. He's gone.
He may be faster and stronger physically, but that won't help him against Shunsui's games. And I'm sure the difference between their speed isn't that significant.
Last edited by Duniak; August 10, 2013 at 05:34 PM.
Speed and power to account for a bit though. Ichigo has an extremely inconvenient bankai when it comes to shunsui's games. The speed and strength he gets are basically a cheat code for games at large. Even his GT could prove useful to protect himself from games considering even stark's cero was able to do that. And there is the fact that shunsui does not have bankai available to the fight. Even then, if his bankai follows the same principles as his shikai it won't necessarily be as much of an advantage over ichigo considering it would be likely that the stakes of the games are just higher. Provided games are played ichigo's bankai is still a huge problem.
The biggest problem I could see ichigo having and perhaps would actually cost him the battle is the fact that shunsui is innately a dirty and outright dishonorable fighter. Most of ichigo's enemies so far have been honorable and consider themselves above underhanded tricks at large. On the other hand shunsui would be perfectly capable of groinkicking him or throwing sand in his eyes if it gets him a better chance at victory. Shunsui would certainly be a different opponent from what ichigo has fought so far. I am somewhat undecided yet but I still lean towards ichigo because his bankai is available to him.
And yeah, I remember battle with Jackie. And do you remember his battle with Renji? And training with Urahara?
And hey, I never said Shunsui takes it with ease.
And Uryu clearly knows how stupid it is.
Shunsui does whatever it takes to win. Throws his hat, takes off his robe to maximize damage, attacks when people talk. Does that makes him dishonorable?
"Shounen Rule #41421: When opponent uses damn-ass strong technique, the other opponent has to stand still not doing anything, saying "what the hell is that?"
Example: Ginjo against Ichigo's Getsuga.
Aizen didn't care about shit like that. He just went to the place Ichigo couldn't aim. Go behind him, dodge Getsuga, easy-peasy. People fighting Ichigo tend to try to tank Getsuga or look at how beautiful it is.
Doesn't apply to Shunsui. He simply doesn't care. He doesn't care if someone talks in a fight. If someone is dishonorable then it's Stark for not paying attention to his opponent. When there's war there's only one objective, annihilate the enemy. And Shunsui understands that. When there's war and there's a threat, that some people will die, he will do whatever it takes to win. Is it dishonorable? Fighting so his comrades won't die? Are their pride more important than their life? I tought Tetsuzameon already sorted it out with Ikkaku. Soifon understands that too. If your comrade dies and you can't win, run the hell away, don't throw away your life. Life takes priority. Arrancars weren't even the main dish, they had to be annihilated quickly. Both sides wanted to kill the other side. Why would he care about something as meager as pride or honor? Honor is but an excuse. If someone has prorities and rules he lives by, he is already above things like "pride". Look at his fight with Chad. Did he kill him? No. He didn't even want to fight him. Because he didn't believe they were evil. He plays "dirty" when he feels he's in danger. What's the point of having honor and pride when you die? If you die you can't protect anyone. By dying you're lowering chances of everyone else surviving. Is it honorable?
PS. There is a reason hardly any military all over the world practices martial arts like karate or wing tsun. What are valuable martial arts? BJJ, Sambo, Krav Maga. Why? Because they don't care about pride. You have an enemy in front of you, he has to be killed. Put him to ground and try to choke him. Cowardice? Is it better to fight fair and square and die?
Last edited by Duniak; August 10, 2013 at 06:39 PM.
Safe for the menos stuff none of the stuff you mentioned actually suggests ichigo is stupid. And to be fair the issue was that at the time ichigo did not really have the strength to cut up the menos. Ishida had something which seemed like a good idea at the time although to be fair we don't know if that would have worked. When ichigo did release a tiny bit of his power when the cero pressed him it was still not enough to actually kill that gillian. As for his fight against renji, I would argue ichigo did show his smarts and battle instinct. His plan failed because at the time renji was simply faster than him, not because he failed in the execution of it or it was a bad idea to begin with.
It is true we are not too familiar with how takaoni works but I would make the point similar scenarios are perfectly plausible considering ichigo's abilities. Shunsui plays a game, ichigo counters with getsuga, the cero scenario repeats itself.
What shunsui does is outright dirty and dishonorable independently of whether you believe there is value in said concept of honor. I was neither favoring nor condemning either of them for their attitude towards usual honorable fighting, I was simply making the point that ichigo is as far as we know not used to fighting people like that. Ichigo wants to win battles on his terms, he wants to prove himself, even the kenpachi hallucination he had after fighting his inner hollow suggested how much ichigo loved combat. His enemies have usually been like that too, they fight with their pride on the line. Shunsui in turn does not give a fuck. He will bite, pull hair, groinkick, do yo mama jokes, sneak up on unsuspecting targets and whatever other underhanded thing he can do to win. Again, I was not judging either one of them for their attitudes, I simply pointed out ichigo has never fought someone like shunsui before which is completely irrelevant to honor being important or stupid.
Urahara taught him the basics. His battle with Renji showed him, that those rules are not absolute. The counter he came up during his battle with Jackie wasn't a quick counter. It was experience. Something that he himself experienced. Jackie attacked him like he attacked Renji. It's like going with right hook to follow with behind the back left elbow, peek-a-boo style, when opponent tries to close the distance thinking you went to far with your hook.
Btw, as I was looking for panel I meant, next proof of Ichigo being a stubborn blockhead, that depends solely on luck and his power and he knows it.
Another thing imo is Ichigo's speed seems exaggerated on these threads as well. I still feel his speed is above normal but not stellar. Nothing Shunsui hasn't dealt with. There was a time Ichigo couldn't comprehend Starrk's speed, Shunsui had no trouble at all with Starrk, or with his Quincy opponent until he used grimaniel. Because before that Shunsui knee'd him in the gut after he dodged a shot at his head at point blank range.
Well, this all depends on how perceptive Kyouraku's opponent is and I'm not sure if Ichigo is that good in that sense. So, I tend to think Kyouraku will be a very difficult opponent for him with his versatile Shikai techniques.
When they were engaged in close combat, they were pretty close if you ask me, so, I wouldn't say he was losing the fight.
I'm favouring Shunsui because of his games. Urahara was intelligent enough to figure out Shunsui's games and neutralise Shunsui's advantage pretty quickly, but Ichigo is unlikely to show the same intellect. Ichigo hasn't fought an opponent with a tricky ability, he's more of a swing away at it kind of fighter; that approach isn't going to be particularly effective against Shunsui's games. Shunsui has shown the power and speed necessary to battle against Starrk without trying too hard, I think he should be able to hold off Ichigo's attacks. Shunsui is just a bad match-up for Ichigo, anyone that uses tricks and complex abilities is probably going to pose a serious threat to Ichigo's very straightforward approach.
Shunsui takes this IMO because, If ichigo is fast he isn't slow mover either, Ichigo has one trick that can kill him and that's Getsuga, which shinsui can avoid (unless its point blank) On the other hand Shunsui is smart and can use his games to his advantage... so yah he will win
I dont think people understand Shunsui's games. Urahara, Ichigo, whoever don't know any of the games nor their rules. Who would figure out the games unless he gives you hints or gives it away with a dumb move? In honesty he can end the fight in one or two moves. And it doesn't even have to be the same game.
Last edited by freshseth83; August 12, 2013 at 02:48 AM.
And Shunsui wanted to use Bankai, he was just hesitant and Juushiro commented on it. He was gonna use it to end it quickly, but Ukitake stopped him.