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Thread: Naruto 643 Discussion / 644 Predictions

  1. #211
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member darkprince0521's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 643 Discussion / 644 Predictions | No chapter this week (see opening post)

    @Delbi: I would agree you about one thing; that I am discrediting Shikamaru more than he deserves. that much is true.


    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    If you are over matched and lack the tools to defeat a superior opponent your intelligence means little.

    I will agree that people hype Shikamaru to the point of saying he could defeat people because he's just "that much" smarter than them.
    true. i also think the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    Kakashi, Minato, Itachi and Sasuke are so dangerous because not only are they incredibly intelligent, but have the means to defeat high class shinobi with said intelligence.
    among the list, I think Kakashi is closest to Shikamaru in terms of strength. we have seen him fighting against overwhelmingly opponent; but he managed to device some effective instant strategy to overcome the situation. not that it always worked, but the brilliance in thinking was proven. I personally would say that Kakashi is better than Shikamaru when it comes to device instant plan. talking about in battle strategy, I would say, Naruto is top tier in that area.

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    Shikamaru's battle savvy intelligence surpasses all of them, but he lacks the tools necessary to do anything. Discrediting him in this war is very stupid IMO, because he's either been fighting A) Immortal Enemies, or B) The Juubi, Madara, Obito, and now Jin Obito. His best resource in Naruto has been out of gas for quite a while, and the rest of the alliance is on it's last legs just trying to stay alive.
    In my personal opinion, which might or might not be correct, Shikamaru failed to make any effective startegy in this battle. so giving him credit in this war is just as much pointless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    Right now, Shikamaru is essentially up shits creak without a paddle. Even the fucking Hokages, the strongest ninja's to ever live, are getting trolled left and right despite all their combined intelligence and power.
    true. but then, they are trying to come up with plans as well as battling; instead of sitting out and observing (and giving nothing as result). what they are doing is trying to come up with ideas while fighting obito. for being praised I am not asking someone to do everything right. but there should be relevance in random praise by people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    So while I agree that from the standpoint of his ability to win battles alone Shikamaru is overhyped, his genius is anything but. I suggest you re-read his fight vs. Temari and understand what exactly he did. The ONLY Gennin to use the terrain to his advantage, realizing both his and his opponents weaknesses, and forcing a mutual defeat when he had no options left instead of trying and losing by himself. The rest of the combatants simply tried to beat the hell out of their opponents. Shikamaru was the only one who used any semblance of a strategy aside from using new jutsu in the hopes they would win.
    so far I can remember, Naruto also used surrounding environment to fight Neji. adding to the fact, he won his fight.

    what is better? thinking more, forming strategies and then get defeated? or to come up with ideas while fighting opponents and winning the battle?
    Naruto Forever


  2. #212
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member naruto the best's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 643 Discussion / 644 Predictions | No chapter this week (see opening post)

    ,Overall I salute Shikamaru's ingenuity, but in this war arc his thinking of the 'doton counter' somehow held stupidity that caused two blowing shits in the manga:

    ,1. How the fuck will a series of doton walls block Juubi's bijuudama?

    ,2. How the fuck people suddenly became doton users?

  3. #213
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Naruto 643 Discussion / 644 Predictions | No chapter this week (see opening post)

    Quote Originally Posted by naruto the best View Post
    ,Overall I salute Shikamaru's ingenuity, but in this war arc his thinking of the 'doton counter' somehow held stupidity that caused two blowing shits in the manga:

    ,1. How the fuck will a series of doton walls block Juubi's bijuudama?

    ,2. How the fuck people suddenly became doton users?
    1. Bijudama wasn't blocked it was just slowed down

    2. Well Kishi told us that it was because Telepaths of the alliance taught the earth seals to every one (I know screw elemental affinity etc )

  4. #214
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Sanadan's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 643 Discussion / 644 Predictions | No chapter this week (see opening post)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    What are you talking about. Once naruto gained full control of the Kyuubi's chakra, he had little trouble using it's abilities right away. Same with Sasuke and his MS/EMS abilities. He was able to use them and expand upon them without any need to train.

    Why would it collapse when the Bijuu's are basically fuel. They aren't even the main fuel, what with the whole natural energy thing going on. It was already established that the Juubi could live without the Bijuu's chakra, so there's no reason that a lack of it should cause it to weaken or collapse. This is one of the few situations where Kishi actually granted us a reasonable explanation.

    There's a limit to how well a plan can succeed without knowing exactly every single factor. Itachi and Minato are proof of that. Still not sure how the plans suck given the situations, or how everything being solved by a single quick solution would be a good thing.

    Given how the tags mechanics teleport outward, all that would result in is granting Obito additional means of attacking.
    We are not talking about the same kind of powers. Naruto used basically raw chakra, nothing too complex and a lot came from when he was out of his mind. Obito how ever is using complex sealing jutsus that he obviously couldn't do before, he knows the mechanics behind these jutsus from a sage looooong gone that no one knew much about. It's not the same really. How would he even know what the juubi can do except for the insane power boost?
    I don't mind that he can do what he can but at least explain. NAruto has had conversations with the kjuubi, he has had a guy explain how to use his jutsus.
    Obito should at least have said "I know this negates all jutsu, I read it in the juubi handbook" or something.
    Meh

  5. #215
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Naruto2011's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 643 Discussion / 644 Predictions | No chapter this week (see opening post)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark blood View Post
    1. Bijudama wasn't blocked it was just slowed down

    2. Well Kishi told us that it was because Telepaths of the alliance taught the earth seals to every one (I know screw elemental affinity etc )
    I think in the chapter it said they learned a generic doton that anyone could use, and them they just use telepathy to transmit how to do the said doton


  6. #216
    Registered User 九千以上だ! / Kyuusen Ijou Da! / It's Over 9000! mattiaildivino's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 643 Discussion / 644 Predictions | No chapter this week (see opening post)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    There's a limit to how well a plan can succeed without knowing exactly every single factor. Itachi and Minato are proof of that. Still not sure how the plans suck given the situations, or how everything being solved by a single quick solution would be a good thing.
    don't be blind,guys. this plan is obviously ridiculous: http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/630/12 , I was really disappointed by how kishi over hyped it . Please, look at this picture,and then think of why naruto has fallen so much: http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/630/16

    ---------- Post added at 07:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:24 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by gnut View Post
    as far as the villans go in naruto....ofc shika is considered genius

    the smartest villan in the series is oro...and he has been jobbed....OH SO MANY TIMES


    look at the alliance fodder....complete fakan idiots

    you are wrong, madara is a baddass, and tobi used to be the true mastermind behind everything,before turning into a shitty crying baby. kabuto had also the power to be a great villain, but kishi humiliated him by adding yet another uchiha technique: izanami, not to mention kabuto was facing the genious of the manga: itachi. shikamaru and his father are just some losers, kishi should quit overrating them,otherwise his manga really will be damned...

  7. #217
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member badluckartist's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 643 Discussion / 644 Predictions | No chapter this week (see opening post)

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    In other words, the Sharingan should be able to do anything. Anything at all, and still make sense. As long as it's powers are rooted in imagination and spiritual energy.
    I guess this is where we fundamentally disagree. No power in fiction should be able to do anything just because two of its ingredients are 'imagination and spiritual ability'. There's consistent abilities with well-derived sub-abilities (mokuton, chidori, byakugan, etc.), there are abilities that have their logic stretched like taffy (jin abilities/ET), and then there's the sharingan. Shooting fire from your head, making a spirit gundam, and literally rejecting causality have little- physically- to do with the sharingan's base abilities. That's my beef.

    Quote Quote:
    Oh. I thought you were comparing powers that come from the Byakugan and the Sharingan, not abilities created around them. Though the Sharingan has those too. All those Shurikenjutsu that Sasuke and Itachi use rely on the Sharingan's prediction powers to trap the opponent with ninja wire and alter the trajectory of the shuriken.
    It's whether or not base abilities have a logical progression into greater abilities later on, regardless of origin: byakugan sees through things --> train it and you can see tenketsu --> hone that skill and you can start jyuuken --> become taijutsu deity. Sharingan predicts movement/sees chakra ~~> I guess use genjutsu if you feel like it ~~> emotional trauma; 2/3 tomoe, do the same things but slightly better ~~> manipulate reality with Izanagi/nami ~~> kill your best friend, kill your closest person, witness an absurdly coincidental- but still thoroughly emotional- traumatic death; MS jutsu /: l These things don't make sense because of what Tobirama said. The Uchiha tendency toward ninja-bipolarity is definitely explained by what he said though.

    Those shuriken/wire traps are fucking awesome for this very reason. Unfortunately beyond the two you mentioned, I can't remember any other times that sharingan's base abilities have been used as part of a later powerup. Except Kakashi using his then-new sharingan to complete chidori. The Sasuke/Itachi fight made me believe that Sasuke wouldn't get the MS at any point, to go along with that whole 'expert with a rock can beat a novice with a shuriken' thing. Boy was I wrong.

  8. #218
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted toussaintac's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 643 Discussion / 644 Predictions | No chapter this week (see opening post)

    It'll be interesting to see what Minato and Naruto do. They will likely try to faint going after the stalk that Obito summoned and, like someone else said, Naruto will have Minato teleport everyone to safety. although, I don't think it's possible for people with wirelss Kyubi chakra to be teleported. More likely, Naruto will transform and everyone will touch Kyubi and Minato will teleport them away. Either that or Naruto uses his Bijuu Chakra Mode to touch everyone and then be teleported out of the barrier. Of course, I wouldn't be surprised if something were to happen like Obito successfully stopping Minato and Naruto just for Tobirama to end up teleporting the stalk away. Many choices.
    "We hunt you down without mercy; Hunt you down all nightmare long."

  9. #219
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member naruto the best's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 643 Discussion / 644 Predictions | No chapter this week (see opening post)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark blood View Post
    1. Bijudama wasn't blocked it was just slowed down
    ,It didn't touch the alliance people behind the supposed-defense. Minato saved the day for them. If it were not for him the alliance is screwed. This bijuudama is supposed to explode right the moment it touches just like the other bijuu bomb attacks(take 4tailed Naruto's case for example against Orochimaru Ranshoumon), unless one has Hashirama Wood Golem to hold it. For plot sake yeah, but I consider that a lame strategy

    Quote Quote:
    2. Well Kishi told us that it was because Telepaths of the alliance taught the earth seals to every one (I know screw elemental affinity etc )
    ,That's what I meant..
    Last edited by naruto the best; August 20, 2013 at 09:19 AM.

  10. #220
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 643 Discussion / 644 Predictions | No chapter this week (see opening post)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark blood View Post
    1. Bijudama wasn't blocked it was just slowed down

    2. Well Kishi told us that it was because Telepaths of the alliance taught the earth seals to every one (I know screw elemental affinity etc )
    I don't think Kishi defied the whole elemental affinity thing. Didn't Shikamaru ask for a doton that anyone could use? If anything, I think this indicates that everyone can use any element, but only the basic ones that they don't have any affinity to. Kakashi can use raikiri, but he likely can't use any good or strong fire jutsu like the Uchiha or anyone else with fire affinity can, he's stuck with basic ones. Or, being intelligent he could use fire jutsu for intermediaries. But whatever the guess is, Kishi hasn't contradicted the whole elemental affinity claim. That'd have happened if nearly everyone in the Alliance used a complex or a large scale doton jutsu, like what Kitsuchi used on the Juubi.

  11. #221
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member chibistar6's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 643 Discussion / 644 Predictions | No chapter this week (see opening post)

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Kakashi can use raikiri, but he likely can't use any good or strong fire jutsu like the Uchiha or anyone else with fire affinity can, he's stuck with basic ones. Or, being intelligent he could use fire jutsu for intermediaries.
    He copied an A-rank suiton jutsu from zabuza, so he can definitely use higher-level techniques because of his sharingan. but he's a special case - for anyone else, what you said is probably right.

    However, during naruto's FRS training, kakashi said that elemental recomposition of chakra usually takes normal people weeks to accomplish - even simple elemental recomposition. Yet, thousands of shinobi produced doton walls without probably ever having used doton before....that's what bothers me, because it contradicts what kakashi stated earlier in the manga.

  12. #222
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    Re: Naruto 643 Discussion / 644 Predictions | No chapter this week (see opening post)

    Sharingan wouldn't let him use higher-level techniques though, it only allows him to see and copy the jutsu. Kakashi likely has an affinity towards suiton as well, which is why he could use the A-rank suiton jutsu. Plus, Kakashi's highly intelligent and capable, so it's not shocking if he could use high level jutsu from other elements. Maybe it's easier to do high level suiton because there was water available.

    Oh. Probably the doton jutsu was that simple for anyone to use?

  13. #223
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Prince Sasuke's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 643 Discussion / 644 Predictions | No chapter this week (see opening post)

    Kakashi only has Katon in anime only.

  14. #224
    MangaHelper MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Rikudou King's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto 643 Discussion / 644 Predictions | No chapter this week (see opening post)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sanadan View Post
    We are not talking about the same kind of powers. Naruto used basically raw chakra, nothing too complex and a lot came from when he was out of his mind. Obito how ever is using complex sealing jutsus that he obviously couldn't do before, he knows the mechanics behind these jutsus from a sage looooong gone that no one knew much about. It's not the same really. How would he even know what the juubi can do except for the insane power boost?
    I don't mind that he can do what he can but at least explain. NAruto has had conversations with the kjuubi, he has had a guy explain how to use his jutsus.
    Obito should at least have said "I know this negates all jutsu, I read it in the juubi handbook" or something.
    We're talking about inherent abilities. Naruto knew about and was able to employ his hatred sensoring and later on pass on the Kyuubi's chakra without any training. It's the same thing with Obito being able to combine natures and negate chakra with the Juubi's power.

    I don't know what complex sealing technique you're talking about. And Naruto has never had the Kyuubi explain anything to him, so that seems moot.

    Quote Originally Posted by mattiaildivino View Post
    don't be blind,guys. this plan is obviously ridiculous: http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/630/12 , I was really disappointed by how kishi over hyped it . Please, look at this picture,and then think of why naruto has fallen so much: http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/630/16
    See, I completely disagree with that. What would have been ridiculous would have been doing nothing in the face of certain death. We're talking about an attack so powerful, it could be felt from the ocean. The ocean which, was a massive distances off from where they were. So what else were they suppose to do, run away? There was no way they could have made it out of the range of destruction.

  15. #225
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    Re: Naruto 643 Discussion / 644 Predictions | No chapter this week (see opening post)

    Quote Originally Posted by chibistar6 View Post
    He copied an A-rank suiton jutsu from zabuza, so he can definitely use higher-level techniques because of his sharingan. but he's a special case - for anyone else, what you said is probably right.

    However, during naruto's FRS training, kakashi said that elemental recomposition of chakra usually takes normal people weeks to accomplish - even simple elemental recomposition. Yet, thousands of shinobi produced doton walls without probably ever having used doton before....that's what bothers me, because it contradicts what kakashi stated earlier in the manga.
    a simple explanation would be anyone can control pre-existing elements so these techs are easy to perform.
    what's really hard is to create them from pure chakra.
    Mangekyou sharingan tobi is a spiral of errors that keeps growing indefinitely.

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