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View Poll Results: Vote for who you think wins this match.

Voters
13. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yamato Yuudai

    7 53.85%
  • Tachibana Kippei

    6 46.15%
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Thread: Final - Yamato Yuudai vs Tachibana Kippei

  1. #1
    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Kaoz's Avatar
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    Final - Yamato Yuudai vs Tachibana Kippei

    Singles - High Tier
    Final


    NameYamato Yuudai
    GradeHigh School 2nd Year
    BirthdayAugust 8th
    Height182 cm
    Weight68 kg
    HandednessRight
    PlaystyleCounter Puncher


    VERSUS


    NameTachibana Kippei
    GradeMiddle School 3rd Year
    BirthdayAugust 15th
    Height179 cm
    Weight67 kg
    HandednessRight
    PlaystyleAll Rounder

    Serve order: Yamato -> Tachibana


    This round ends on Monday, August 26th, at 8 PM GMT.

    Have fun discussing.

  2. #2
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member -Ken-'s Avatar
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    Re: Final - Yamato Yuudai vs Tachibana Kippei

    Yamato wins. He's even with Tezuka, who kick Chitose totally.
    Most of the thing I post is probably assumption if it's not a fact that I support using some evidence from the manga.

    If you knows you're on my ignore list and you quote my post, there's high chance I would ignore you. Or answer you and not look at your response.

  3. #3
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member ashore's Avatar
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    Re: Final - Yamato Yuudai vs Tachibana Kippei

    i dont agree that yamato was even with tezuka. tezuka was winning a one sided game vs yamato. yamato caught up and won one sided games only because of his illusion technique.

    2 stats doesn't compare to tezuka's stats.

    tezuka could have also won with his tezuka phantom, but he decided not to.
    Last edited by ashore; August 23, 2013 at 08:22 PM.

  4. #4
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member -Ken-'s Avatar
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    Re: Final - Yamato Yuudai vs Tachibana Kippei

    And he's using it and win points, so what? Niou/Atobe only win due to Syncho/Phantom, so what? A win is a win. If that tech put him on even level as Tezuka, Tachibana stand no real chance here.
    Most of the thing I post is probably assumption if it's not a fact that I support using some evidence from the manga.

    If you knows you're on my ignore list and you quote my post, there's high chance I would ignore you. Or answer you and not look at your response.

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  6. #5
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Final - Yamato Yuudai vs Tachibana Kippei

    I don't think Yamato is as good as people claim but if he beat Shiraishi, who is clearly stronger than Tachibana (Tezuka said he's more dangerous than Chitose, who is at least considered same tier as Tachibana) then of course he should beat Tachibana too.

    I was under the impression that GUYU is something that only works on Tezuka sort of like in the game against St. Rudolph one of the guy has the move that makes the ball shake and it only works on Kikumaru because he has superior vision. Though whatever caused him to un-retire and consequently claim a spot against the G10 should be more than enough to beat Tachibana, seeing he's the only real 3rd courter that made the list.

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  8. #6
    Intl Translator 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Airgrimes's Avatar
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    Re: Final - Yamato Yuudai vs Tachibana Kippei

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    I was under the impression that GUYU is something that only works on Tezuka sort of like in the game against St. Rudolph one of the guy has the move that makes the ball shake and it only works on Kikumaru because he has superior vision. Though whatever caused him to un-retire and consequently claim a spot against the G10 should be more than enough to beat Tachibana, seeing he's the only real 3rd courter that made the list.
    WHY?
    It was never stated anywhere that GUYU only works on Tezuka. Only the anime implied this.
    It was just said that the ball is going the opposite to where Tezuka predicts its going. That was the only analysis we got.

    Then Irie said, "Yamato is full of surprises, hiding such a technique". This means it can't be a move that only works on one guy who Yamato KNEW was leaving for Germany.
    It must mean that the move can't be some joke that works against one guy.
    What supports this is the good point you just made, Yamato is the only 3rd Court guy who got a place to play against the G10.

    Not counting Irie the Pierrot who we simply just cannot account for.

  9. #7
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member ashore's Avatar
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    Re: Final - Yamato Yuudai vs Tachibana Kippei

    Quote Originally Posted by -Ken- View Post
    And he's using it and win points, so what? Niou/Atobe only win due to Syncho/Phantom, so what? A win is a win. If that tech put him on even level as Tezuka, Tachibana stand no real chance here.

    some people cant beat techs, does that mean if you can't return the tech than the opponent is better in basic skills?

    I understand a win is a win, but that it doesn't mean the skill level is the same. if you are arguing that yamato is at the same skill level than tezuka, that seems wrong. even yamato admits he is trying his best against tezuka, while his team mate is making fun of him. ( this is when tezuka is winning one sidedly against yamato.)


    Yamato is not even with tezuka. tezuka can win yamato with tezuka phantom, but he didnt choose to.
    even means evenly matched in skill and that isn't the case.

    ---------- Post added at 05:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:29 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    WHY?
    It was never stated anywhere that GUYU only works on Tezuka. Only the anime implied this.
    It was just said that the ball is going the opposite to where Tezuka predicts its going. That was the only analysis we got.

    Then Irie said, "Yamato is full of surprises, hiding such a technique". This means it can't be a move that only works on one guy who Yamato KNEW was leaving for Germany.
    It must mean that the move can't be some joke that works against one guy.
    What supports this is the good point you just made, Yamato is the only 3rd Court guy who got a place to play against the G10.

    Not counting Irie the Pierrot who we simply just cannot account for.
    Spoiler show


    taken from the spoiler page.

    Predicting
    the strength of one's shot
    the course of one's shot
    watching movements
    watching breathing

    can we all agree all good tennis players in the series do this? the (ABOVE)

    if not, then yamato's guyu only works on tezuka because he subconsciously looks for most of these things and reacts accordingly. and when you aren't thinking consciously you automatically make predictions and execute based on your predictions.

    ---------- Post added at 05:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:54 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    I don't think Yamato is as good as people claim but if he beat Shiraishi, who is clearly stronger than Tachibana (Tezuka said he's more dangerous than Chitose, who is at least considered same tier as Tachibana) then of course he should beat Tachibana too.

    I was under the impression that GUYU is something that only works on Tezuka sort of like in the game against St. Rudolph one of the guy has the move that makes the ball shake and it only works on Kikumaru because he has superior vision. Though whatever caused him to un-retire and consequently claim a spot against the G10 should be more than enough to beat Tachibana, seeing he's the only real 3rd courter that made the list.
    some people also thought that since they watched the anime, including myself. and I can agree that in some cases the anime clears up what is not mentioned in the manga. a better explanation/description of a technique can be considered cannon imo is better explained in the anime if it was mistranslated or left out by konomi in the manga. ( and yes he has made mistakes before)

    i agree that shiraishi > tachibana. but I cant say for sure if yamato > shiraishi. I mean due to public opinion people voted yamato better than shiraishi, so that makes this vote an almost no brainer in yamato's favor.

    but i still wanted to continue the discussion on yamato's guyu shot here since the other thread is closed.
    Last edited by ashore; August 24, 2013 at 08:02 AM.

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  11. #8
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member -Ken-'s Avatar
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    Re: Final - Yamato Yuudai vs Tachibana Kippei

    Quote Originally Posted by ashore View Post
    Yamato is not even with tezuka. tezuka can win yamato with tezuka phantom, but he didnt choose to.
    even means evenly matched in skill and that isn't the case.
    He does use Phantom to force both ball out. We knows that there's a limit to how much Tezuka can use Phantom due to his match in National. Yamato is even to Tezuka, regardless of whether you want to admit it or not. And really, due to Abara Dame limited stance required to pull it off, I doubt he can do that with Yume shot. Beast aura "might" do it. But I doubt it.

    ---------- Post added at 09:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:26 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by ashore View Post
    I understand a win is a win, but that it doesn't mean the skill level is the same. if you are arguing that yamato is at the same skill level than tezuka, that seems wrong. even yamato admits he is trying his best against tezuka, while his team mate is making fun of him. ( this is when tezuka is winning one sidedly against yamato.)
    It's also when he doesn't use the Yume move yet.

    And throughout the entire match, he did not reveal his shot that damaged his arm. If without that tech he can fight Tezuka to this extent, what chance do Tachibana really have here?

    I don't consider and will never consider anime as anything close to cannon. Ever. Sanada score points against Yukimura without using Black Aura? Only in his dreams. At least before the mountain training.
    Last edited by -Ken-; August 24, 2013 at 09:30 AM.
    Most of the thing I post is probably assumption if it's not a fact that I support using some evidence from the manga.

    If you knows you're on my ignore list and you quote my post, there's high chance I would ignore you. Or answer you and not look at your response.

  12. #9
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Final - Yamato Yuudai vs Tachibana Kippei

    Quote Quote:
    i agree that shiraishi > tachibana. but I cant say for sure if yamato > shiraishi. I mean due to public opinion people voted yamato better than shiraishi, so that makes this vote an almost no brainer in yamato's favor.
    but i still wanted to continue the discussion on yamato's guyu shot here since the other thread is closed.
    I don't know why Tachibana is necessarily worse than Shiraishi, it would be a close match for sure. Tachibana was more than even with Chitose till he revealed the second door of Muga.

    The Wild Beast versus Tennis Bible would be a good match but I wouldn't say Shiraishi would definitely win. Tezuka said Shiraishi was the more fierce opponent, but he and Fuji were the only two people to defeat the second door thus far. I doubt even Shiraishi would defeat the second door in a match. Also against Chistose, Tachibana only aimed for his blind spot once so thereby only played in half the court but yet was able to keep even.

    The WOK are really overestimated as a doubles team but as singles players they are truly great. I think the wild beast aura might be more power than Yamato can handle (given his stats).

    Unlike Tezuka and Shiraishi, Tachibana's play is based on his power not as much on his thinking skills. I doubt Yamato can handle the Abare Dame.

    Also GUYU requires a lot of time in order to fake one course and play another. We haven't seen how the shot would respond to power based shots. We have only seen it against the placement skilled Tezuka.

  13. #10
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member ashore's Avatar
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    Re: Final - Yamato Yuudai vs Tachibana Kippei

    Quote Originally Posted by -Ken- View Post
    He does use Phantom to force both ball out. We knows that there's a limit to how much Tezuka can use Phantom due to his match in National. Yamato is even to Tezuka, regardless of whether you want to admit it or not. And really, due to Abara Dame limited stance required to pull it off, I doubt he can do that with Yume shot. Beast aura "might" do it. But I doubt it.

    ---------- Post added at 09:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:26 AM ----------



    It's also when he doesn't use the Yume move yet.

    And throughout the entire match, he did not reveal his shot that damaged his arm. If without that tech he can fight Tezuka to this extent, what chance do Tachibana really have here?

    I don't consider and will never consider anime as anything close to cannon. Ever. Sanada score points against Yukimura without using Black Aura? Only in his dreams. At least before the mountain training.
    Hi ken,I appreciate the discussion

    can you or others comment on this post of mine:

    taken from the spoiler page.

    Predicting
    the strength of one's shot
    the course of one's shot
    watching movements
    watching breathing


    can we all agree all good tennis players in the series do this? the (ABOVE)

    if not, then yamato's guyu only works on tezuka because he subconsciously(imo) looks for most of these things and reacts accordingly. and when you aren't thinking consciously you automatically make predictions and execute based on your predictions.




    If you agree that all good tennis players in shin pot have this innate ability then,GUYU should work on all the players.

    If you dont agree then GUYU shouldnt work. In comparison, I dont think tachibana is at the same level of tezuka to do the skills above, and there fore GUYU would have little to no effect on him, would allow tachibana to win a 2 stated all around player, like yamato.
    Last edited by ashore; August 24, 2013 at 04:12 PM.

  14. #11
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member -Ken-'s Avatar
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    Re: Final - Yamato Yuudai vs Tachibana Kippei

    Yes, I think all good players predict the shot. If it's like Kintarou or closed eyes Fuji, then maybe Yume won't work. But in those case, it kind of hardly matter anyways.

    I think everyone read that page. And their opinion that "this shot doesn't only work from Tezuka" comes from either

    1. Not putting Anime as cannon (As unless the author admit they are, they never are. I might admit Reborn novel as cannon, for example)
    2. Just not watching anime
    Last edited by -Ken-; August 24, 2013 at 07:47 PM.
    Most of the thing I post is probably assumption if it's not a fact that I support using some evidence from the manga.

    If you knows you're on my ignore list and you quote my post, there's high chance I would ignore you. Or answer you and not look at your response.

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  16. #12
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Final - Yamato Yuudai vs Tachibana Kippei

    Quote Originally Posted by ashore View Post
    If you dont agree then GUYU shouldnt work. In comparison, I dont think tachibana is at the same level of tezuka to do the skills above, and there fore GUYU would have little to no effect on him, would allow tachibana to win a 2 stated all around player, like yamato.
    I think that it works on Tezuka because he is so good at predicting. It would also work on Chitose and most likely Shiraishi. They have a set plan that they follow. Shiraishi plays perfect tennis so will thereby follow up one where he thinks the ball will be hit from a certain angle. Chitose's pinnacle of wisdom would be destroyed. Data tennis would most likely not work.

    Tachibana like Kintaro's strength is in his power and his wild nature (hence the wild beast aura). The majority of his play is not based on prediction. Plus the Abare Dame is a pretty insane shot that I doubt Yamato would handle. We agreed Tachibana could handle the BJK because of his strength so I'm sure he can beat the GUYU because of his strength as well.

  17. #13
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member ashore's Avatar
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    Re: Final - Yamato Yuudai vs Tachibana Kippei

    well I did the best I can, to show my point of view. Have to see how it plays out.

    ---------- Post added at 11:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:57 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by floman View Post
    I think that it works on Tezuka because he is so good at predicting. It would also work on Chitose and most likely Shiraishi. They have a set plan that they follow. Shiraishi plays perfect tennis so will thereby follow up one where he thinks the ball will be hit from a certain angle. Chitose's pinnacle of wisdom would be destroyed. Data tennis would most likely not work.

    Tachibana like Kintaro's strength is in his power and his wild nature (hence the wild beast aura). The majority of his play is not based on prediction. Plus the Abare Dame is a pretty insane shot that I doubt Yamato would handle. We agreed Tachibana could handle the BJK because of his strength so I'm sure he can beat the GUYU because of his strength as well.
    I was just making a point that people who can do the following:

    Predicting
    the strength of one's shot
    the course of one's shot
    watching movements
    watching breathing

    aren't on the same level of predictability as tezuka is. and GUYU is more effective on tezuka because he does all those predictions at a higher level than most other players, not that others dont also do it too.

  18. #14
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Final - Yamato Yuudai vs Tachibana Kippei

    Quote Originally Posted by ashore View Post

    I was just making a point that people who can do the following:

    Predicting
    the strength of one's shot
    the course of one's shot
    watching movements
    watching breathing

    aren't on the same level of predictability as tezuka is. and GUYU is more effective on tezuka because he does all those predictions at a higher level than most other players, not that others dont also do it too.
    I think your completely right. It would work on Tezuka better than anyone but I think it would barely work on Tachibana. His play is based on the wild beast aura. It's much more random and less based on prediction. So I don't think it would be a winning strategy against Tachibana.

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    Re: Final - Yamato Yuudai vs Tachibana Kippei

    Tezuka's level of prediction is far above even data tennis. There's a reason why he has Saiki, which is basically just perfect prediction. Just look at say, Tezuka Zone. The only way he can put enough spin to move the ball back to center is if he already knows which way it is going. Here I'm assuming Tezuka Zone is not some kind of 'attract ball to Tezuka' spin, because otherwise he should just stand outside the court and attract the ball there. Of course that does bring up the question of say a ball is hit to the left corner, if he could predict that why doesn't he just spin the ball to the left and force it out. Still, both Phantom and Zone only make sense if you already know where the ball is going, otherwise both moves will easily backfire you. If Tezuka doesn't have perfect prediction we should see Tezuka Zone/Phantom accidentally saving balls that would've been out. The Kaidoh versus Tezuka tiebreaker shows that he can use Tezuka Zone to save balls going out of bound and it's most certainly not because Tezuka used TZone on the wrong time and saved Kaidoh. He obviously already knows Kaidoh can't return that shot in the court which is why he put TZone on the ball.

    Unlike the data tennis players, Tezuka never brags about how awesome he's at predicting, but the things he does is only possible if he already knows where everything is going. That is why GUYU is devastating on him because his prediction is just so accurate so he can't imagine them being wrong. Shiraishi is said to play perfect tennis, but from the way the manga describes it that just means he always hits the ball to the best spot and never do anything superflous. Sure all the players do some level of prediction but I can't think of anyone who comes to the 'never wrong' level as Tezuka Zone/Phantom requires.
    Last edited by Phantron; August 25, 2013 at 11:54 AM.

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