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Translations: Gintama 507 (2)
US vs syria
Russia + Iran + syria vs Saudi Arabia + US.
Wow, what the hell is happening to our world?
''The whole world will suffer the effect. Especially if Egypt help Syria by blocking the Suez Canal''
''Is Obama ready for that?''
I am inclined more and more to think that USA wants Russia to be involved in this conflict, attacking the middle east so it can be in flames and an easy pathway to surround Russia. Though Asia may be too big of a challenge for the West. All in all leading to a clash of East vs. West.
It's not that after this immediate war that will happen, but I can see how it may lead up to that. But think about it, what is more easy for the West, direct attack on Russia or control most of Asia and then attack? USA and Russia are never official allies. Sure on an economic level, but think of the rivalry of the Cold war, these are different times, but of course the diplomatic relations are far more sophisticated.
It may sound like I am spewing geopolitical games, but thinking in terms of a larger conflict and a prediction towards a clash of civilizations.
I seriously think US is making a huge mistake getting involved in this conflict. Not only would we waste money, but we would make even more enemies by interfering in another country, much like we did Iran and Iraq (I think?).
Brinkmanship, just like I thought. Nobodies going to war, this is how high level diplomacy works.
The Russians are far better diplomats it seems.
So now a week to turn over the chemical weapons? And plus UN inspectors to check the state of Syria for any left?
Well this seems odd, but I am sure the Obama administration will find a way to keep the fear of war going, even if this happens.
Not odd at all. It's less the Obama administration and more of Kerry's reign as Secretary of State. Kerry made the entire world his enemy when he overreacted over Snowden. It is not only awkward but stupid that the American foreign policy arm gets itself into a tizzy over one man who hasn't even committed any violent crimes. The point to the Snowden overreaction was that Kerry wanted to show that his department wouldn't be soft like Clinton's State Department. Except that the whole point of the State Department is to keep stable relations with other countries, not wreck them.
Good work, Senator Kerry! You've done more for damaging the perception of the US in the world than all the expensive drones we send into the Middle East!
Obama has asked congress to delay a vote on Syria. He achieved what he wanted diplomatically, the threat of air strikes are no longer necessary. If Syria reneges on their part of the deal, the US could once again threaten a bombing mission. As of right now that is no longer being considered.
---------- Post added at 03:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:09 PM ----------
The best part is that Obama probably did not have enough votes to authorize air strikes. The threat of an intervention that might not ever have come was enough to force a diplomatic solution favorable to US interests
Last edited by Kaiten; September 10, 2013 at 02:14 PM.
It looks like mangahelpers is even the best place on the internet to talk about controversial world events. Completly resonable, level headed disscusion going on. There must be something in the manga
Getting serious, I've been keeping an eye on the Syria conflict since the death count was 40,000. I read the news nearly every morning and I have watched it creep up by the thousands monthly, now it has more than doubled. I've also always seen it as something the rest of the world could do nothing to stop. Violence is always the looked to as a final solition when none other are available. I've always supported Obama, he's not a great president but I believe he has decency as a man. However he surprised me when he made this call for an attack. Outside violence will only worsen this plight.
Another concern of mine is that Damascus is a beautiful city with thousands of years of history in it. It would be painful to see it destroyed by this war.
I believe the only way to stop Middle Eastern violence of a grand scale is for the Muslim faith to abolish the Sunni and Shitte ideologly and unite as a common faith. That may be to bold a wish to count on to stop this war.
Last edited by conn-man; September 12, 2013 at 04:18 PM.
Sectarianism is not the cause of problems in that region and never has been.
In fact the consequences of sectarianism in Syria now, the violence, can be directly traced back to France's colonial divide and rule sectarian strategy. When you give an oppressed minority preferential treatment to help you subjugate a majority, that will only lead to the building of resentment and hatred.
Similar strategies were used by colonial powers in other areas around the world. Most of the modern Middle East's problems can be directly related to the subsequent decades following the collapse of the Ottoman empire. The Arabs in helping get rid of the oppressive Ottomans opened a pandora's box that was followed by mistake after mistake.
Eventual independence in 1949 would result for Syria, and short democracy before the United States decided to intervene and made things even worse.
Btw, there is no organisation/people in the Sunni Muslim faith that would have the legitimacy or authority to make that decision. Not that some havent tried.
Last edited by Imperium; September 12, 2013 at 05:54 PM.
Imperium, I like your thoughts. I have been trying to get a good handle on the complicated history of the middle east for a about a year now but I feel I've only scratched the broad surface. So I appreciate the facts.
I guess I come off a bit uneducated when I phased my 'solution' in such a short way. All I was using as a reference was the overscope of the rivalry between the two sides since their respective foundings.
However I will say that while history is the truth, it still remains untaught to many people of subsequent generations. The muttled and distorted versions are still being taught to the youths and with this it is fueling the desire to pick a side to call the bad guy. Its very similar to the democratic and republican divide of the US. Some participants simply are uneducated on the facts.
And I myself need to learn many more facts too.
How do you know history is the truth?
How do you anything is real? How do you know we are really alive.
This is all recent history, all of the countries involved still exist. Syria is a purely colonial construct, created by the French and British (along with Iraq, Lebanon, Israel, and Jordan) after World War I. Syria did not exist before the French took power in 1920. Prior to 1920, Syria had no unified political history since the end of the Umayyad Caliphate ended in 750AD. Syria had not even been a single polity under late Ottoman rule, but divided among multiple local administrative units. Like they did in Africa, European powers drew the borders for much of the middle east with little regard for the local population, or there history. Syria only achieved independence in 1946. It's history is less than 100 years old, and only independent for 67 years. This is very much a post-colonial war. Decades of dictatorship have kept the tensions bottled up. Assad could no longer maintain his rule after the Tunisian, Egyptian, and Libyan Revolutions. All that bottled up tension has now exploded.
Last edited by Kaiten; September 12, 2013 at 08:50 PM.
On topic, I've learned some valuable information about Syrian history today from you all. The french colonial bits are food for thought. The movie, Lawrence of Arabia is one of my personal favorites. While somewhat fictitious, it puts this subject of post world war I into a nice empathetic perspective.
Question, would obama be able to push the issue elsewhere even after congress did not approve? I don't think its about obama being a chessmaster or anything of the sort, rather the main thing to consider here is that if obama, the US and at least some of its allies really wanted to invade syria it would have eventually happened. The whole Lybia thing set up an interesting precedent here... In hindsight the solution makes far more sense than the alternatives, its not like conflict with the US would have benefited russia or other nations who supported syria for whatever reason.