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Thread: Removing Naruto's speed - disappointment

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    Banned 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Removing Naruto's speed - disappointment

    When kyuubi chakra mode first came out the very first bash was just like the yellow flash (Which they say in the story as well) and i loved it, this was my favorite aspect of the chakra mode. And the a huge advance in narutos utility. They even took the time to show him being the 2nd person to dodge the raikage said to be the fasted shinobi in the ninja world since minato died.

    To me, i was thrilled, it seemed like this was gonna be the thing that advanced narutos fights into a higher level of intensity. High speed gives a person so much advantage in countless ways, its potential is nearly limitless.

    But, sadly.. After the raikage battles its never seen again. I could be wrong about NEVER but i'm almost certain this is the case, i don't recall it once during the tobi fight. The possible things they could've done against the jinchuuriki before they transformed is huge. Even before bijuu mode there were many times speed would've been the move. Alas its disappeared.

    To me it sucks, they focus on the hiraishin which i know is obviously faster i mean its literally instant with no travel interception possible, but i feel that this is a huge loss and i just wanted to know what you guys think about it. Are you fine with it just being kyuubi chakra mode is just huge use of his chakra arms and essentially only all things chakra. Which is essentially Chakra manifestation with chakra blasts in a large scale.

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    Re: Removing narutos speed dsappointment

    actually , Tobi was the 2nd person who dodge Raikage ... don't come and say he used his Kamui (ninjutusu ) , because Minato used Hirashin ( a ninjutsu ) for it and Naruto used QB chakra for it ...
    خداحافظ

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    Re: Removing narutos speed dsappointment

    Naruto's speed hasn't disappeared. You're just seeing it for what it really is. Think about what you're comparing his feats to:

    1: When Naruto first used Shunshin in Chakra Mode, what did he do? He smashed Kisame into the ground, and Kakashi fanboyed out over Minato. Everyone who's a Naruto fan saw the name "Yellow Flash" and lost their shit without paying attention to what actually happened in that moment:

    Kisame was stuck inside of Samehada, without legs, or hands to perform ninjutsu. Naruto essentially speed blitzed a cripple.

    2: When Naruto dodged Raikage's fastest punch, again he was compared to Minato. But no one acknowledges how he managed to dodge that punch: Raikage announces full well that he's about to attack Naruto, making a speed blitz IMPOSSIBLE. Even worse, we already saw Raikage had the speed to blitz Naruto in Chakra Mode, because when Naruto first attempted to pass him, (while he was in Base Mode), Raikage immediately activated Raiton Armor and cut him off at the pass, knocking him away before he could get past him.

    Not to mention Sasuke dodged an elbow from Raikage even though he wasn't using his max speed.

    3: When Naruto uses Bijuu Mode, he blocks 5 Bijuudama, and runs fast enough to grab Gai and Kakashi to protect them. I'm not sure there's ever been an instance in the manga where a Bijuudama has been compared to anything fast. As far as we know a Bijuudama is an average speed projectile (considerably slower than an Amaterasu).

    4: Naruto is currently fighting a Sharingan wielder. The Sharingan has shown time and again that it allows one to defend against attacks normally too fast for the ninja to contend with. So you shouldn't be expecting Obito or Madara to be getting blitzed because for the simple fact that Naruto isn't fast enough.

    5: Every instance of Naruto's "godlike speed" has been during Shunshin. And it will always, only be during Shushin. And shunshin may be instant, but it isn't constant. Naruto can't maintain his max speed indefinitely, so you are NOT going to see him running around the battlefield like Sonic the Hedgehog.

    I agree he's the fastest in the manga, but he's fighting against opponents where his speed simply doesn't matter. They all have sensing abilities, combined with Sharingan, combined with perfect defenses. Take all of these away and then you can see him run around impressively. As of now, absolutely nothing happening can be blamed on PIS.

    Naruto just isn't that fast.

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    Re: Removing narutos speed dsappointment

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    2: When Naruto dodged Raikage's fastest punch, again he was compared to Minato. But no one acknowledges how he managed to dodge that punch: Raikage announces full well that he's about to attack Naruto, making a speed blitz IMPOSSIBLE.
    Raikage announcing hat he's gonna use his full speed doesn't have any impact on Naruto's performance whatsoever. Knowing that he's gonna attack and knowing the actual speed of his attack are entirely two different things. I've seen this argument a lot of times but it seems people still justify Naruto's dodge because of that.

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    Re: Removing narutos speed dsappointment

    It has everything to do with it.

    Before Naruto even knew Raikage had access to S/T level movement speeds he tried to run past him and it failed. He wasn't prepared for his speed. And this wasn't even his max speed that Raikage used to outpace Naruto (who was in Chakra Mode). Naruto's ability to sense chakra didn't even help, which would have alerted him to how fast Raikage was coming for him. Raikage simply outran his senses... and outran HIM.

    Naruto was prepared the next time. Capable of focusing on him and timing the dodge. What you're claiming is tantamount to someone saying "Minato would've totally dodged Raikage even if he didn't give him time to throw his kunai out."

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    Re: Removing narutos speed dsappointment

    Not really. Raikage never used his full speed until he lent Naruto the knowledge that he's actually gonna use his full speed at that moment. Naruto knew Raikage's gonna use his full speed but he couldn't measure how fast his fastest speed was. It's simple, if Naruto thought that he's gonna go at 200mph and Raikage surprised him with 220, Naruto wouldn't have dodged it. In short, he didn't know how fast the attack's gonna be but he still dodged it.

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    Re: Removing narutos speed dsappointment

    Quote Originally Posted by Roman
    Not really. Raikage never used his full speed until he lent Naruto the knowledge that he's actually gonna use his full speed at that moment. Naruto knew Raikage's gonna use his full speed but he couldn't measure how fast his fastest speed was. It's simple, if Naruto thought that he's gonna go at 200mph and Raikage surprised him with 220, Naruto wouldn't have dodged it. In short, he didn't know how fast the attack's gonna be but he still dodged it.
    He didn't know how fast he would move, but he knew how fast he COULD move, and adjusted accordingly. The point is that Naruto's speed advantage is conditional. It's not as simple as "Naruto is the fastest ninja, therefore he is untouchable, and he can only be beat if Kishi screws him over."

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    Re: Removing narutos speed dsappointment

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    He didn't know how fast he would move, but he knew how fast he COULD move, and adjusted accordingly. The point is that Naruto's speed advantage is conditional. It's not as simple as "Naruto is the fastest ninja, therefore he is untouchable, and he can only be beat if Kishi screws him over."
    Of course not, that's why I pointed out the specific detail in which he didn't know what his exact full speed is. Assuming how fast Raikage could move and actually knowing as a fact his highest speed aren't the same thing. It doesn't matter if Naruto is the fastest or not, the situation itself explains it regardless of his speed status. If Naruto had experienced that kind of speed before and could measure the exact moment of Raikage's attack impact, I'd agree. But that's not the case.

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    Re: Removing narutos speed dsappointment

    Naruto had so much warning that he knew to use max speed against the Raikage though. He was also already in motion, making it easier to use shunshin than it would have been if he was standing still. No matter how fast Naruto went, the Raikage kept up easily; once Naruto learned that the Raikage wasn't even close to using his full speed, all Naruto had to do was bring his speed to max. In no way impressive like Minato, as he had no warning whatsoever. Once he knew the Raikage's speed, he could use Hiraishin before the Raikage got anywhere as near as he did.

    Naruto's speed won't work against an Uchiha, especially if he runs over a distance. However, if he tries moving in a zig zag pattern, it might work.

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    Re: Removing narutos speed dsappointment

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Naruto had so much warning that he knew to use max speed against the Raikage though. He was also already in motion, making it easier to use shunshin than it would have been if he was standing still. No matter how fast Naruto went, the Raikage kept up easily; once Naruto learned that the Raikage wasn't even close to using his full speed, all Naruto had to do was bring his speed to max. In no way impressive like Minato, as he had no warning whatsoever. Once he knew the Raikage's speed, he could use Hiraishin before the Raikage got anywhere as near as he did.
    Again, those arguments are useless simply because he didn't know Raikage's highest speed. Warning or no warning, Naruto couldn't know when exactly to react because he didn't know when exactly Raikage's hit would make an impact. He knew about Raikage's highest speed the moment he dodged him, which was at the end of that little battle.

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    Re: Removing narutos speed dsappointment

    How is it useless? You don't need to know someone's highest speed to use max speed while already in motion. Naruto had too much advantage here, he knew when to react and how much chakra to use to increase his speed. Naruto may not have known the Raikage's highest speed, but he knew the Raikage could go even faster so Naruto decided to pump up his chakra to go max speed and move before or around when the Raikage charged. Naruto was basically spoonfed being able to dodge the max speed.

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    Re: Removing narutos speed dsappointment

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    How is it useless? You don't need to know someone's highest speed to use max speed while already in motion. Naruto had too much advantage here, he knew when to react and how much chakra to use to increase his speed. Naruto may not have known the Raikage's highest speed, but he knew the Raikage could go even faster so Naruto decided to pump up his chakra to go max speed and move before or around when the Raikage charged. Naruto was basically spoonfed being able to dodge the max speed.
    Naruto had no advantage, except that he was actually faster in the end. They were both in the motion and the warning didn't matter because, again, he didn't know his highest speed. That's why he DIDN'T know exactly when to react. If he did, then it wouldn't be impressive. Naruto knew that Raikage could go faster, but he didn't know how much faster. That's why he wasn't at advantage and that's why the feat was impressive.
    Last edited by Roman; September 02, 2013 at 12:56 PM.

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    Re: Removing narutos speed dsappointment

    Quote Originally Posted by Roman View Post
    Raikage announcing hat he's gonna use his full speed doesn't have any impact on Naruto's performance whatsoever.
    Its a pretty big difference, even leaving speed aside.

    If I tell you I'm about to punch you in the face then you will focus, your muscles will be prepared to dodge asap and shit. The odds of you avoiding that punch are incomparably higher then if I just punch you into the face out of nothing without any sign of warning.

    http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/541/5

    ^Had Raikage used his max speed at this point then Naruto would have been toast.

    http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/550/6

    ^Its been clearly shown that if Naruto isn't prepared for an attack then his speed advantage is severely diminished.
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    He was once a very charismatic, kind, special and inspiring person. LnDRash was a premium brand, now this brand is called LnDTRash!

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    Re: Removing narutos speed dsappointment

    Not this "He was warned" stupidity again. In a fight you know someone is going to attack you, should people be penalized because they know someone is going to attack them? When someone uses handseals, you know they are going to attack you, does that count against you?

    Just because you know someone is going to do something does not mean you are going to be able to avoid or are going to be readily prepared for it. If Raikage told Tsunade he was coming, would she have been able to avoid him? Narutos speed was superior to Ee and that is why he was able to dodge him, not because he was warned, this is getting rather ridiculous.

    Quote Originally Posted by LnDRash View Post
    Its a pretty big difference, even leaving speed aside.

    If I tell you I'm about to punch you in the face then you will focus, your muscles will be prepared to dodge asap and shit. The odds of you avoiding that punch are incomparably higher then if I just punch you into the face out of nothing without any sign of warning.

    http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/541/5
    If we were in a tense argument, you are more than likely going to be able to avoid that punch if you have superior reflex or foresight.

    In the scan you posted, Naruto simply tried to run away - Get past the Kages, he did not know how fast Ee was. Neither at that point were using theyre full speed.

    Quote Quote:
    ^Had Raikage used his max speed at this point then Naruto would have been toast.
    If you call that Raikages Max speed then would it not be right to say that if Naruto would have used the same speed he used to dodge Raikages max speed then he would have escaped?

    Quote Quote:
    http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/550/6

    ^Its been clearly shown that if Naruto isn't prepared for an attack then his speed advantage is severely diminished.
    Nagato warns him

    Naruto distracted though he was prepared thinking it was Amaterasu at first.

    And most of that exchange was simply talking with non of them actually serious at all. Naruto was more interested in what that crow was rather than what was happening.
    Last edited by jaymizzo; September 02, 2013 at 01:12 PM.
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    Re: Removing narutos speed dsappointment

    Quote Originally Posted by LnDRash View Post
    Its a pretty big difference, even leaving speed aside.

    If I tell you I'm about to punch you in the face then you will focus, your muscles will be prepared to dodge asap and shit. The odds of you avoiding that punch are incomparably higher then if I just punch you into the face out of nothing without any sign of warning.

    http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/541/5

    ^Had Raikage used his max speed at this point then Naruto would have been toast.

    http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/550/6

    ^Its been clearly shown that if Naruto isn't prepared for an attack then his speed advantage is severely diminished.
    I agree, but it's still not enough. While it gives you some form of advantage, it means nothing if you don't know what you're up against. Naruto experienced his regular speed but once Raikage said he's gonna use his highest speed, he could only wonder how fast that was. He could prepare on some form of speed that is higher than his regular speed but he didn't know to what degree that speed was actually higher.

    Also, Raikage's MAX SPEED was the one Naruto dodged in the end. Just to be clear.
    Last edited by Roman; September 02, 2013 at 01:12 PM.

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