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Thread: Removing Naruto's speed - disappointment

  1. #31
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Knightmare of heaven 0's Avatar
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    Re: Removing narutos speed dsappointment

    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Sasuke View Post
    Naruto still has his speed, but fact is, obito is faster.... In fact, obito is faster then anyone on the battle field including minato with FTG.
    Hirashin is superior to Shunshin.One can't compare Teleportation with normal movement speed.If Minato and Obito are to reach a specified destination like Antarctica from USA for example,Minato would reach there before Obito would.He just teleports.

  2. #32
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member nitsthegame's Avatar
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    Re: Removing narutos speed dsappointment

    Quote Originally Posted by Knight of Heaven 0 View Post
    Hirashin is superior to Shunshin.One can't compare Teleportation with normal movement speed.If Minato and Obito are to reach a specified destination like Antarctica from USA for example,Minato would reach there before Obito would.He just teleports.
    In ur example, obito will win, he doesnt needs tag, unless minato has once been to antartica to place tags


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  3. #33
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Prince Sasuke's Avatar
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    Re: Removing narutos speed dsappointment

    Quote Originally Posted by Knight of Heaven 0 View Post
    Hirashin is superior to Shunshin.One can't compare Teleportation with normal movement speed.If Minato and Obito are to reach a specified destination like Antarctica from USA for example,Minato would reach there before Obito would.He just teleports.
    I'm really not concern on what jutsu is better. Obito was able to cut Minato's arm off before he could use hiraishin, so my statement still stands.

  4. #34
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member KungPaoChicken's Avatar
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    Re: Removing narutos speed dsappointment

    Isnt that because Minato was caught off guard because Obito's attack stuck on him? I think it was a moment of who was more clever.

  5. #35
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Exodi's Avatar
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    Re: Removing narutos speed dsappointment

    There's also the fact that Tobirama managed to pull off a successful attack using Hiraishin (with Naruto) a couple of chapters later.

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  7. #36
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member KungPaoChicken's Avatar
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    Re: Removing narutos speed dsappointment

    Quote Originally Posted by Exodi View Post
    There's also the fact that Tobirama managed to pull off a successful attack using Hiraishin (with Naruto) a couple of chapters later.
    Ahahaha see. Now were getting some where. I'm guessing if the places are marked, there teleportation speeds are the same. I mean the jutsus are practically the same right?

  8. #37
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Exodi's Avatar
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    Re: Removing narutos speed dsappointment

    Quote Originally Posted by KungPaoChicken View Post
    Ahahaha see. Now were getting some where. I'm guessing if the places are marked, there teleportation speeds are the same. I mean the jutsus are practically the same right?
    You mean Kamui and Hiraishin?

    Almost. It's still unclear whether someone using Hiraishin actually travels through another dimension.
    Assuming that a Hiraishin user doesn't, then Hiraishin would inherently be faster (because it takes time to go through dimensions, even if it's like super fast).

    At least, that's my take on it.

  9. #38
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Removing narutos speed dsappointment

    Quote Originally Posted by Roman View Post
    They were both in motion and the argument was the warning which didn't really have any impact on the matter because even if he knew that Raikage's attacking at full speed, he couldn't know the exact moment when to dodge because he didn't experience his full speed. He dodged it from the first try without experiencing it beforehand and that's why it's impressive.
    Why would Naruto need to know the exact moment to dodge? Just run and use speed to the max. He doesn't need to see the Raikage or know when to dodge, he just needs to move as fast as possible. It's easy to do, which is why it's not impressive. Once again, Minato had no idea that the Raikage could move so fast, so he was nearly punched to the moon. However, after experiencing Raikage's speed, he wasn't shocked and could react in time. Same with Naruto, who didn't know the Raikage's max speed but was confident he was faster.

    Quote Quote:
    He can't if he doesn't how fast Raikage actually is. He can prepare mentally for the attack but that isn't enough because he doesn't know when to execute his dodge because, again, he doesn't know the full speed of his movement. They were both in motion when the dodge occurred so the head start doesn't matter and it's completely irrelevant. He HAS to know it in order for it to NOT be impressive. Naruto can't sense something that is faster than him and Raikage's fastest speed wasn't faster than him, which was, again, impressive.
    He doesn't need to know when to execute it, he can just keep running and use max speed. Both were in motion, but Naruto had a head start so it was easier for him to dodge due to inertia (?). If he wasn't moving, maybe it'd be a bit more impressive.

    Quote Quote:
    And that undermines his speed? It's amazing what "reasons" you guys can conjure up to theorize or downplay his speed.

    It's also amazing how you put his clumsiness and his speed in the same box. Him being a clumsy idiot during a battle like the one against Nagato and Itachi doesn't have anything to do with the fact that he's actually faster than Raikage. But I guess, such things help some people sleep at night.
    I'm not theorizing or downplaying his speed. But the fact that he stood still and didn't move means he needs to know when to move, otherwise his speed is useless. I don't remember mentioning his clumsiness, but okay.

  10. #39
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    Re: Removing narutos speed dsappointment

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Why would Naruto need to know the exact moment to dodge? Just run and use speed to the max. He doesn't need to see the Raikage or know when to dodge, he just needs to move as fast as possible. It's easy to do, which is why it's not impressive. Once again, Minato had no idea that the Raikage could move so fast, so he was nearly punched to the moon. However, after experiencing Raikage's speed, he wasn't shocked and could react in time. Same with Naruto, who didn't know the Raikage's max speed but was confident he was faster.


    He doesn't need to know when to execute it, he can just keep running and use max speed. Both were in motion, but Naruto had a head start so it was easier for him to dodge due to inertia (?). If he wasn't moving, maybe it'd be a bit more impressive.



    I'm not theorizing or downplaying his speed. But the fact that he stood still and didn't move means he needs to know when to move, otherwise his speed is useless. I don't remember mentioning his clumsiness, but okay.
    That's impossible. Eventually, he'd run out of energy and then he'd be screwed. He can't run around wildly just so he could keep out-speeding him. He could do that, for a short period of time. It's not easy to beat Raikage and Minato, the two fastest men alive. Hell no, it's not. Yeah, he didn't know which is impressive in your point of view as well, if I'm getting that right.

    He can't. What kind of strategy is that? He should run around until he gets exhausted and then what? It's precisely because he didn't do that, that it's impressive. If both were in motion, then both were in the same shoes and the same logic is used if they were standing standing.

    He didn't know when to move because he didn't know what speed to expect. He dodged it instinctively without calculating and knowing the true measure of his highest speed. That's why it's impressive. It wouldn't be impressive if he knew that speed beforehand and then dodged it.

  11. #40
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member KungPaoChicken's Avatar
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    Re: Removing narutos speed dsappointment

    Quote Originally Posted by Exodi View Post
    You mean Kamui and Hiraishin?

    Almost. It's still unclear whether someone using Hiraishin actually travels through another dimension.
    Assuming that a Hiraishin user doesn't, then Hiraishin would inherently be faster (because it takes time to go through dimensions, even if it's like super fast).

    At least, that's my take on it.
    I was talking about the 4ths jutsus compared to the 2nds. I thought they were the same. And i'm still unsure on it.

  12. #41
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity jaymizzo's Avatar
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    Re: Removing narutos speed dsappointment

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    That's worse. He saw that Amaterasu was on it's way, so the perfect time to move would be before the flames were coming. Except that didn't happen. There's no argument for why either.
    Like Roman said, Narutos lack of reaction has nothing to do with his reflex or speed. There was no speed feat to be observed in that instance...

    Quote Quote:
    I wonder why everyone's so annoyed with this example though. I gave an entire essay on why Naruto isn't as fast as you guys think he is, and it's the Raikage situation you won't acknowledge? That one isn't even as damning as the "shunshin is not constant" reason. Infact, I figured that one was the strongest argument.
    You can have a strong argument and people will appreciate that, but if you give a bad example then people will obviously try to point it out.

    Quote Quote:
    It couldn't be because people simply want Naruto to be a carbon copy of his Dad, and outrun Raikage legitimately is it?
    I dont think any Naruto fan would want Naruto to be a carbon copy of Minato. How exactly did he not outrun the Raikage legitimately? Its getting rather ridiculous.

    If you believe that a warning is enough to boost ones reflex and speed then fair enough but that is not the case. If you do not have greater reflex or speed it would be meaningless to even be warned.

    Its like the Flash telling Batman to get ready he is coming while accessing the full speed force, would you expect Batman to react or escape him? Jeez.

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    It means he doesn't like moving? Considering the fact that he should have moved at or right before the jutsu, there's something wrong here.
    How is that at all an argument? You attribute Narutos speed to him making a bad decision? If that is what speed is based on then ok.

    Quote Quote:
    You're not likely to dodge an attack if you don't know it's coming and aren't prepared for it.
    If you clearly see an attack coming and have greater speed and reflexes then you will be able to dodge it. If you are much slower than the attacker, no amount of warning will help you dodge.

    In a fight, the fact that you are IN a fight is warning enough. Naruto seeing the Raikage coming at him would have yielded the same result, he would have dodged.

    Quote Quote:
    Naruto may have still dodged it, or he may not have, but I'm saying that Naruto had all the advantages and knowledge that Raikage would use his top speed, leading Naruto to use his.
    IIRC it was only confirmed to Naruto that the Raikage used his top speed after he managed to evade him.
    Last edited by jaymizzo; September 03, 2013 at 10:00 PM.
    "Man hands misery onto man" - Philip Larkin

  13. #42
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Removing narutos speed dsappointment

    Quote Originally Posted by Roman View Post
    That's impossible. Eventually, he'd run out of energy and then he'd be screwed. He can't run around wildly just so he could keep out-speeding him. He could do that, for a short period of time. It's not easy to beat Raikage and Minato, the two fastest men alive. Hell no, it's not. Yeah, he didn't know which is impressive in your point of view as well, if I'm getting that right.

    He can't. What kind of strategy is that? He should run around until he gets exhausted and then what? It's precisely because he didn't do that, that it's impressive. If both were in motion, then both were in the same shoes and the same logic is used if they were standing standing.

    He didn't know when to move because he didn't know what speed to expect. He dodged it instinctively without calculating and knowing the true measure of his highest speed. That's why it's impressive. It wouldn't be impressive if he knew that speed beforehand and then dodged it.
    Why would he need to know when to move? He was already moving before the Raikage and just needed to use max speed when Raikage ran at him. Hell, Deidara's speed was more impressive because he dodged Sasuke's speed without knowing how fast Sasuke was or that Sasuke was coming at him. He still managed to react. Naruto however, was told he'd be attacked, and he sensed the Raikage's killer intent. That makes all the difference.

    But this is a waste of time for us, so it's just better to agree to disagree.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaymizzo View Post
    Like Roman said, Narutos lack of reaction has nothing to do with his reflex or speed. There was no speed feat to be observed in that instance...



    You can have a strong argument and people will appreciate that, but if you give a bad example then people will obviously try to point it out.



    I dont think any Naruto fan would want Naruto to be a carbon copy of Minato. How exactly did he not outrun the Raikage legitimately? Its getting rather ridiculous.

    If you believe that a warning is enough to boost ones reflex and speed then fair enough but that is not the case. If you do not have greater reflex or speed it would be meaningless to even be warned.

    Its like the Flash telling Batman to get ready he is coming while accessing the full speed force, would you expect Batman to react or escape him? Jeez.
    But Naruto is more like Superman, not Batman. They have comparable speed, which is why a warning can make all the difference.

  14. #43
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity jaymizzo's Avatar
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    Re: Removing narutos speed dsappointment

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    But Naruto is more like Superman, not Batman. They have comparable speed, which is why a warning can make all the difference.
    No, Superman and The Flash do not have comparable speed when The Flash has full access to the speed force. You would not expect Superman to evade or dodge the Flash if he was going to use an IMP backed with the full speed force regardless of how much warning he got.

    Naruto knowing and observing the Raikage coming after him are the same thing and would yield the same result. You cannot say that Narutos top speed is only achievable by a warning, or at least insinuate such.
    "Man hands misery onto man" - Philip Larkin

  15. #44
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Removing narutos speed dsappointment

    I dunno, I don't read the comics. But the Raikage doesn't have that kinda advantage, he just has his speed amped up to the max by raiton cloak while Naruto can amp up his speed to the max using Kyuubi's chakra.

    I did not say Naruto's top speed is only achieved by warning. I don't think anyone has said that... and I feel as if you're accusing me of saying this to make me look stupid. My argument is about Naruto dodging the Raikage with or without warning, not whether he can reach max speed.

  16. #45
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity jaymizzo's Avatar
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    Re: Removing narutos speed dsappointment

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    I dunno, I don't read the comics. But the Raikage doesn't have that kinda advantage, he just has his speed amped up to the max by raiton cloak while Naruto can amp up his speed to the max using Kyuubi's chakra.
    Arent those just the same advantages, difference being one being inherently faster than the other? Like you said, they both can amp their speeds up using their respective cloaks.

    Quote Quote:
    I did not say Naruto's top speed is only achieved by warning. I don't think anyone has said that...
    That is how this whole debate is coming across. If you believe that Naruto could dodge the Raikage with or without the warning, then pointing out the warning would really not make a difference.

    Quote Quote:
    My argument is about Naruto dodging the Raikage with or without warning, not whether he can reach max speed.
    For Naruto to dodge the Raikage he needed his max speed, that is what it came down to. I believe that weather or not he was warned or not, he would have been able to do so. Just like how he casually tried to escape using only his normal speed until he was surprised at Ee keeping up.

    Quote Quote:
    I feel as if you're accusing me of saying this to make me look stupid.
    I apologise if its coming across that way, I had no intention in doing that nor have I ever intended in doing so to anyone in a healthy debate.
    "Man hands misery onto man" - Philip Larkin

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