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Thread: Nimaiya's Basis for Asauchi & Zanpakutou Manifestation

  1. #16
    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member zimbardo's Avatar
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    Re: Nimaiya's Basis for Asauchi & Zanpakutou Manifestation

    One thing that I just realised I had previously skipped over.
    Aizen says something interesting here.
    He says "... our zanpakuto are fused to our arms. Perhaps this is the original form of the zanpakutou..."
    It seems unlikely that he would not know of Nimaiya, or the asauchi.
    Therefore, could this be what shinigami used before Nimaiya's research?
    Could Ichiro have unconsciously done what shinigami had done before they used the asauchi?
    Are the asauchi just an easy method of summoning a zanpakuto, one that enabled soul society to quickly boost the numbers of available troops to deal with the Quincy threat?
    Or did Aizen really make a mistake in what he said to Ichigo?

    One more thing.
    If it is the case that shinigami could use/summon zanpakuto (or something similar) before the asauchi were developed, then this may explain the quincies ability to steal bankai but not shikai.
    The powers of the shinigami are innate to them - Hitsuguya, for example, was chilling people long before he was given an asauchi.
    The asauchi is designed to help draw out the shinigami's powers, and to adapt to them.
    Bankai forces the asauchi to take on the form of the shinigami's powers in the real world. Shikai, however, enables the shinigami to use their native powers using the asauchi as a medium to do so. The zanpakuto may change shape, however the 'spirit' of the zanpakuto (the asauchi?) still remains inside the zanpakuto.
    The Quincy could be stealing the asauchi. As the asauchi has 'adapted' to the powers of the shinigami, it will still retain the abilities that the shinigami gave it. However, as it doesn't have the shinigami's native abilities behind it, it is much weaker (as shown by the Sasakibe bankai incident) then it would be if wielded by the shinigami - it can't draw on the shinigami's latent power anymore.
    The shinigami, however, have not lost their native powers, and thus will still be able to use them. Thus being able to use their shikai powers even without an asauchi. However, as they have never learned to summon their powers outside of themselves - AKA a bankai. This will not be possible for them without the help of the Asauchi. Ichigo, however, has never had an asauchi and has learned to summon his 'bankai' without one. Perhaps this is why they can not steal his bankai, as he has no asauchi to steal...
    At least, he didn't until now...

    I understand that this doesn't really fit with Mayuri's "a bankai can not be fixed" speech... But I am kinda grasping at straws here...
    Last edited by zimbardo; October 04, 2013 at 03:24 AM.
    Infinite RAGE!

  2. #17
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Lee.J.Baxter's Avatar
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    Re: Nimaiya's Basis for Asauchi & Zanpakutou Manifestation

    Quote Originally Posted by zimbardo View Post
    One thing that I just realised I had previously skipped over.
    Aizen says something interesting here.
    He says "... our zanpakuto are fused to our arms. Perhaps this is the original form of the zanpakutou..."
    It seems unlikely that he would not know of Nimaiya, or the asauchi.
    Therefore, could this be what shinigami used before Nimaiya's research?
    Could Ichiro have unconsciously done what shinigami had done before they used the asauchi?
    Are the asauchi just an easy method of summoning a zanpakuto, one that enabled soul society to quickly boost the numbers of available troops to deal with the Quincy threat?
    Or did Aizen really make a mistake in what he said to Ichigo?

    One more thing.
    If it is the case that shinigami could use/summon zanpakuto (or something similar) before the asauchi were developed, then this may explain the quincies ability to steal bankai but not shikai.
    The powers of the shinigami are innate to them - Hitsuguya, for example, was chilling people long before he was given an asauchi.
    The asauchi is designed to help draw out the shinigami's powers, and to adapt to them.
    Bankai forces the asauchi to take on the form of the shinigami's powers in the real world. Shikai, however, enables the shinigami to use their native powers using the asauchi as a medium to do so. The zanpakuto may change shape, however the 'spirit' of the zanpakuto (the asauchi?) still remains inside the zanpakuto.
    The Quincy could be stealing the asauchi. As the asauchi has 'adapted' to the powers of the shinigami, it will still retain the abilities that the shinigami gave it. However, as it doesn't have the shinigami's native abilities behind it, it is much weaker (as shown by the Sasakibe bankai incident) then it would be if wielded by the shinigami - it can't draw on the shinigami's latent power anymore.
    The shinigami, however, have not lost their native powers, and thus will still be able to use them. Thus being able to use their shikai powers even without an asauchi.
    This may also be connected to the Zanpakutou-like arms of White...
    Predictions
    • Just as Quincies are evolved beings born from Humans, Shinigami are evolved beings born from Hollows.
    • Once Yhwach dies, Ichigo's Quincy powers will disappear and his soul will become unstable, causing the onset of Soul Suicide.
    • Yhwach isn't going to be the final antagonist.

  3. #18
    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member zimbardo's Avatar
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    Re: Nimaiya's Basis for Asauchi & Zanpakutou Manifestation

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee.J.Baxter View Post
    This may also be connected to the Zanpakutou-like arms of White...
    Would be a strange thing to say though - what with him creating White (thus knowing how/why White had such a body), and with him guessing why both he and Ichigo have their Zanpakuto 'joined' to their arms (Ichigo's isn't really joined per se.).

    I still think that the reason why the Quincy can't steal Ichigo's bankai is not due to his hollow. We saw that they got poisoned by Hyorinmaru - but they still retained the bankai.
    Quigle wasn't poisoned when he tried to steal Tensa Zangetsu, nor did he stop trying, he was physically unable to steal it (the medallion, not the Quincy, didn't work).
    Infinite RAGE!

  4. #19
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Lee.J.Baxter's Avatar
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    Re: Nimaiya's Basis for Asauchi & Zanpakutou Manifestation

    Quote Originally Posted by zimbardo View Post
    Would be a strange thing to say though - what with him creating White (thus knowing how/why White had such a body), and with him guessing why both he and Ichigo have their Zanpakuto 'joined' to their arms (Ichigo's isn't really joined per se.).

    I still think that the reason why the Quincy can't steal Ichigo's bankai is not due to his hollow. We saw that they got poisoned by Hyorinmaru - but they still retained the bankai.
    Quigle wasn't poisoned when he tried to steal Tensa Zangetsu, nor did he stop trying, he was physically unable to steal it (the medallion, not the Quincy, didn't work).
    On the contrary, it might be because of his observation of White's appearance, combined with the observation of himself and Ichigo, that Aizen came to the conclusion that the fused Zanpakutou is its true form. Seeing it occur twice isn't as convincing as seeing it happen in 3 cases!!!
    Predictions
    • Just as Quincies are evolved beings born from Humans, Shinigami are evolved beings born from Hollows.
    • Once Yhwach dies, Ichigo's Quincy powers will disappear and his soul will become unstable, causing the onset of Soul Suicide.
    • Yhwach isn't going to be the final antagonist.

  5. #20
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Nimaiya's Basis for Asauchi & Zanpakutou Manifestation

    White was created by fusing shinigami souls but as far as we can tell it was not actually a hydrid. There were aspects of its combat that were reminiscent of shinigami however its reiatsu was always refered to as hollow. If it was a hybrid then ishin would have acted significantly different from what he did. And white would, IMO, have been too weak to be a hybrid IMO. Ishin was ultimately strong enough to be able to defeat it with just shikai, were it not for aizen white would have died without infecting anyone. White was a hollow mean to infect a soul, nothing more.

  6. #21
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Lee.J.Baxter's Avatar
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    Re: Nimaiya's Basis for Asauchi & Zanpakutou Manifestation

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    White was created by fusing shinigami souls but as far as we can tell it was not actually a hydrid. There were aspects of its combat that were reminiscent of shinigami however its reiatsu was always refered to as hollow. If it was a hybrid then ishin would have acted significantly different from what he did. And white would, IMO, have been too weak to be a hybrid IMO. Ishin was ultimately strong enough to be able to defeat it with just shikai, were it not for aizen white would have died without infecting anyone. White was a hollow mean to infect a soul, nothing more.
    That's one thing that's puzzling me...Aizen fused Shinigami souls together, and created a Hollow.....Unless he did use some Hollow components, that's like saying "orange + apple + banana + grapes + peach + mango + lime = chicken dinner"...

    I'm not doubting you here as to the composition of White; in fact I agree! But it's rather interesting if Shinigami components were combined to create a Hollow!!!!!
    Predictions
    • Just as Quincies are evolved beings born from Humans, Shinigami are evolved beings born from Hollows.
    • Once Yhwach dies, Ichigo's Quincy powers will disappear and his soul will become unstable, causing the onset of Soul Suicide.
    • Yhwach isn't going to be the final antagonist.

  7. #22
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    Re: Nimaiya's Basis for Asauchi & Zanpakutou Manifestation

    Quote Originally Posted by zimbardo View Post
    I still think that the reason why the Quincy can't steal Ichigo's bankai is not due to his hollow. We saw that they got poisoned by Hyorinmaru - but they still retained the bankai.
    Quigle wasn't poisoned when he tried to steal Tensa Zangetsu, nor did he stop trying, he was physically unable to steal it (the medallion, not the Quincy, didn't work).
    Well, we saw them slowly "rejecting" Bankai. In Ichigo's case, they tried to send Hollow-Quincy. Why? Because normal Quincy wouldn't do shit, he'd reject it automatically as a poison or a virus. Only race that has any chance of taking this Bankai is something that won't reject Hollow. That's why they tried to send Arrancar. Well, it's the only option that makes sense to me. When Hyorinmaru Hollowfied completely, Cang lost whole Bankai. Ichigo's Bankai is completely Hollowfied and Quincified, so to say. So Quincies can't take it because it's not Ichigo's real Bankai, Quincy shits don't work on other Quincies AND it's Hollow-ish.

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