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Thread: The Claymore Sword

  1. #16
    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Utsune's Avatar
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    Re: The Claymore Sword

    Been meaning to reply for a while but don't know what to say. Was trying to figure out the strength of Dauf's body through the fact Claymore swords can break ground... until I saw Aimless's post. Screw physics in Claymore (The rest of the conversation was too funny to bear though.)

    Having said that, if I were to take away one thing from this thread, it would be your idea of Claymore swords being made out of Dragons. I'm still slightly skeptical about Dauf's Keratin, but it's the best option IMO because of its flexibility. I couldn't find enough information about the compressive strength of Keratin in its 'toughest form'... (to compare with other rock minerals) so I couldn't do too much meaningful calculations on this issue. Not that it matters...

    ---------- Post added at 01:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:17 AM ----------

    Also, when you talk about swing, don't forget they can swing their swords at high speed while standing still, that requires incredible muscles... ab muscles more like. Assuming the swords weigh like air, a normal person swinging it at 200km/h (120mph) - which is basically swinging their arm around - would still need a solid stance to support their movement. Though when you actually do have a weighted sword in your hand, you may exploit momentum for control, the Warriors don't seem to find it necessary to rely on that aspect of physics in controlling their swipes and slashes.

    Cutting short my rant, I think ultimately dumping all the explanations on this mysterious 'youki' element is your best bet ;D

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  3. #17
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member colonywars's Avatar
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    Re: The Claymore Sword

    Quote Originally Posted by Utsune View Post
    Been meaning to reply for a while but don't know what to say. Was trying to figure out the strength of Dauf's body through the fact Claymore swords can break ground... until I saw Aimless's post. Screw physics in Claymore (The rest of the conversation was too funny to bear though.)

    Having said that, if I were to take away one thing from this thread, it would be your idea of Claymore swords being made out of Dragons. I'm still slightly skeptical about Dauf's Keratin, but it's the best option IMO because of its flexibility. I couldn't find enough information about the compressive strength of Keratin in its 'toughest form'... (to compare with other rock minerals) so I couldn't do too much meaningful calculations on this issue. Not that it matters...

    ---------- Post added at 01:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:17 AM ----------

    Also, when you talk about swing, don't forget they can swing their swords at high speed while standing still, that requires incredible muscles... ab muscles more like. Assuming the swords weigh like air, a normal person swinging it at 200km/h (120mph) - which is basically swinging their arm around - would still need a solid stance to support their movement. Though when you actually do have a weighted sword in your hand, you may exploit momentum for control, the Warriors don't seem to find it necessary to rely on that aspect of physics in controlling their swipes and slashes.

    Cutting short my rant, I think ultimately dumping all the explanations on this mysterious 'youki' element is your best bet ;D
    Hello

    About mechanical durability of keratin, for example crocodiles skin plates are so hard and dense, that it is difficult to pierce through with common rifle bullets. I red some books about exploration of Africa continent in 1920 -1925, and the explorers use there rifles with ammo caliber 18mm, which ricocheted after hitting these scales. The only way to kill crocodile was to shot him in the eyes, or in the lower, abdomen part of body, where skin plates where thinner. Now ammo for hunting weapons is way much better, but from that rifles, I mentioned above they were able to shot down elephants, rhinoceroses, and other animals, so this could give idea about how hard and resistant are crocodile scales.

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  5. #18
    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Utsune's Avatar
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    Re: The Claymore Sword

    Quote Originally Posted by colonywars View Post
    Hello

    About mechanical durability of keratin, for example crocodiles skin plates are so hard and dense, that it is difficult to pierce through with common rifle bullets. I red some books about exploration of Africa continent in 1920 -1925, and the explorers use there rifles with ammo caliber 18mm, which ricocheted after hitting these scales. The only way to kill crocodile was to shot him in the eyes, or in the lower, abdomen part of body, where skin plates where thinner. Now ammo for hunting weapons is way much better, but from that rifles, I mentioned above they were able to shot down elephants, rhinoceroses, and other animals, so this could give idea about how hard and resistant are crocodile scales.
    Right, in that case I was seriously underestimating them Thanks, this is very helpful!

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  7. #19
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member faintsmile1992's Avatar
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    Re: The Claymore Sword

    Quote Originally Posted by colonywars View Post
    Hello

    About mechanical durability of keratin, for example crocodiles skin plates are so hard and dense, that it is difficult to pierce through with common rifle bullets. I red some books about exploration of Africa continent in 1920 -1925, and the explorers use there rifles with ammo caliber 18mm, which ricocheted after hitting these scales. The only way to kill crocodile was to shot him in the eyes, or in the lower, abdomen part of body, where skin plates where thinner. Now ammo for hunting weapons is way much better, but from that rifles, I mentioned above they were able to shot down elephants, rhinoceroses, and other animals, so this could give idea about how hard and resistant are crocodile scales.
    Those skin plates are not just keratin like fingernails but also osteoderms. The plates are bone covered with an outer sheath, not entirely keratin.

  8. #20
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member TStew's Avatar
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    Re: How much does a Claymore´s sword weigh?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nanozom View Post
    That is correct.

    A claymore is created to fight awakened ones, yoma is only cannon fodder.
    That is the true purpose of the claymores and humans can kill the yoma just fine. It´s the identification that is a problem.
    ...
    While it is possible for humans to kill yoma I would not say they could kill them just fine. Dont forget about the beginning of the series, the first time we see Rabona and Sid and Galk fight the yoma, and were easily defeated the first time, and probably would have been again had they not all worked together. I'd say it would take a very skilled human warrior and a not so powerful yoma (or a little luck). Remember, some regular yoma are still powerful, can move faster than the eye can see, can shoot out appendages, and can even fly. Although as the story progresses, the yoma are portrayed weaker and weaker as the battles become more intense between stronger claymores and awakened beings, to add a more dramatic effect I'd assume.

    Quote Originally Posted by number12michael View Post
    Was Raki not carrying it around when it was inside the statue ?
    Carrying and swinging a sword are very different. I mean I can lift 30 pounds in one hand easy enough, but in the form of a long sword there is a lot of leverage increasing the felt weight. Think about it, 30 pounds in your hand or 30 pounds on the end of a 4 foot long pole held straight out in front of you, the sword is going to feel a lot heavier than it is.

    Has anyone read the booklet that comes with the box set (at least the bluray set)? In the staff interview, Tanaka states A normal adult would have to use both hands to even lift one of those swords, but Clare and the other Claymores wield them without any effort at all.... I mean, I still think it'd be great if we could've had a scene where Clare tells Raki to get her sword and Raki answers with something like "But I can't even lift it!" But there was just no place to slot in a scene like that.
    Last edited by TStew; October 12, 2013 at 08:30 PM.
    T~Stew

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  10. #21
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Claymore1's Avatar
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    Re: How much does a Claymore´s sword weigh?

    Quote Originally Posted by TStew View Post
    While it is possible
    Has anyone read the booklet that comes with the box set (at least the bluray set)? In the staff interview, Tanaka states A normal adult would have to use both hands to even lift one of those swords, but Clare and the other Claymores wield them without any effort at all.... I mean, I still think it'd be great if we could've had a scene where Clare tells Raki to get her sword and Raki answers with something like "But I can't even lift it!" But there was just no place to slot in a scene like that.
    I do remember reading that in the booklet . It was included in the DVD version as well.

  11. #22
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner StarPirate's Avatar
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    Re: The Claymore Sword

    "What can I say about that coat that hasn't been said about Afghanistan..."

    What I mean is that it's a mess quantifying fiction (but fun) when we really have no clue.

    All I know for certain is this: Rubel can handle the sword and he's not that bulky, Raki child can backpack a sword, so it can't be too heavy.

    Also, metals are not as hard as glass or structured mineral crystal, so it can never be as sharp as glass. And glass is not as tough as metal so it won't last. Claymore blades are said to be SHARP (outside the trainee ones) and indestructible. Even a diamond sword would shatter.... So I'm going to say my guess is an organic in nature indestructible sword with the handle being a root of scale/tooth/ect, and it's the hilt cap that bugs me the most 'cause it's surely also indestructible and possibly engineered... How?

    I'm just going to say it: unobtanium.

  12. #23
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Nanozom's Avatar
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    Re: The Claymore Sword

    Theory about the swords:

    What if the swords are pieces of a claymore´s yoki and soul and therefor a extension of the warrior?
    Listen before you judge.
    It´s shown that Rubel could lift a trainee sword in the past, and those swords have no emblem. Meaning that they are lighter, yet we have seen Raki empathize the weight when he defended against the ORg´s men in the rebellion.
    So how is this weight difference possible?

    I think that the trainee swords are assigned with one each per traniee and they train with it during all of their training.
    And that it is made from something organic that can merge with the yoki within the trainee... a kind of maturing process if you call it. And during the time of training, the sword gets gradually heavier and heavier from the yoki that it absorbs and get adjusted to from the trainee.
    And in a way, I think they serve as a kind of power limiter for the warriors to store the excess yoki within when not using it.
    And upon the graduation, the trainee sword is reaching its mature stage, becoming sharp, impossible to fracture or break apart. All from yoki, similar in how a warrior stops aging and can only get stronger.

    So how do you carve in a emblem in a sword that is obviously indestructible to such degrees that we seen in the manga?
    Simple,
    I believe that the emblems aren´t carved in, but they grow out after the graduation. And the Organization´s men is making the dickey with the same symbol to maintain the fact that they don´t made the swords and hide the true nature about them.

    The fact that they are infused with the owner´s yoki and soul, means that they in a way, are the awakened sides of the warrior´s yoki that keeps the main body human.
    Fact, you never see a hybrid without her sword, this much is confirmed.
    Another thing, Priscilla absorbed hers, meaning that it was a organic thing and compatible with her yoki so the swords themselves might be capable of shapeshifting to suit the persona of the user.
    Another fact, Ophelia´s Rippling sword
    If you look at it, then it could be more than muscle vibrations, as that blade slithered around like a snake in her hand, and she awakened as one. It became her tail with a edge... That can´t be a coincidence.
    Also, It might be possible that this shapeshifting weapon might been the source of Isley´s powers as he in his final moments summoned his sword to fight and when he threw it away he didn´t shapeshift anything else. Meaning that it was his axe, shield, bow and arrow and lance and sword...
    And from what I can guess, it might be possible that Dauph´s hard skin might been his claymore, assuming the form of a armor over his body as his soul weapon. (And not unbreakable as it was spread all over his body, in contrast to Priscilla who used hers in the head.)
    Riful also had a moment where she showed resiliance to a claymore strike with Rachel and Audrey, she was stabbed inside a wound and it failed to cut through. so she might have had hers merged with her as well...
    ...oh crap...
    What if this sword, if stored in her body, got infected with the destroyer and became Riph!? The one that duked out with Priscilla.
    It could have been Riful´s claymore! That went to avenge her fallen master!
    The true revelation of the nature of the claymores, (the swords)...

    Also, whenever Alicia or Beth, or even the new twins, transformed with soul link, that one´s sword just vanished... and I believe it was integrated inside the body as the awakened form. (Alicia´s scythe hands for example)

    Another minor one, During Irena´s training with Claire, every time the latter hit the limitaitons, she was told to shove the sword in the ground and from the look of it, channel the extra yoki down into the blade itself.
    And it might be safe to assume that the warriors are doing the same thing when testing their limitations.

    With all these theories, I am willing to say that the claymore sword is a extension of the warrior´s soul and capable to change and alter the user.
    Awakened ones that don´t have swords are weaker than those that awaken with them and therefor end up complete.
    The Claymores used by the hybrids are "sealed" forms of their darker selves and are released to full power once the hybrid breach the limit.
    I assume that they also have a "Active" form for semi-awakened ones, similar to Rippling sword and Quicksword.

    The sword is only special, because of the yoki infused on the Island. when it´s packed and shipped, it´s just a normal and unmarked sword.
    It´s the hybrids that turn them indestructible.

    And since they aren´t made that way form the start, then it´s possible that they are made like normal weapons before yoki alter them in a similar way to the hybrid body.

    They are soul swords.

  13. #24
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member killy-.-'s Avatar
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    Re: The Claymore Sword

    Swinging a sword is more about wrist work than anything else. Wrist is the weakest point, its a joint, there is no muscles on top of that.
    BTW I dont think this guy would have a problem swinging a 25kg Claymore sword ( he weights +- 105kg here , and the plate is 25kg)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1DG4qbiIAM

  14. #25
    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Utsune's Avatar
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    Re: The Claymore Sword

    Quote Originally Posted by killy-.- View Post
    Swinging a sword is more about wrist work than anything else. Wrist is the weakest point, its a joint, there is no muscles on top of that.
    BTW I dont think this guy would have a problem swinging a 25kg Claymore sword ( he weights +- 105kg here , and the plate is 25kg)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1DG4qbiIAM
    Not sure if you really mean "more about the wrist" or "more than just about the wrist," I'm assuming you mean the latter lol, since you do agree that the wrist is a weak joint.


    Anyways I don't think I can put the strength of the Claymore warriors in perspective (in terms of comparing to normal humans,) but swinging a sword for a normal human being isn't just wrist work, and it's definitely not the 'undeniable' component in the action. For example, I reckon one could somewhat fight decently should their wrist joints not exist (except for fencing with epee/rapier/foil etc, these require substantial wrist movement working in coordination with the arm.) For a sword such as Claymore, the strength required for this action comes from the whole arm(s), arm joints, hip and leg joints i.e. your whole body. If anything, the wrist is part of what dictates the sword's momentum (specifically the direction component, thereby optimizing your movements and effort. In fact, even Mr Klokov here in the video above showed minimal wrist movements when he flipped the plate around.) Even if the sword were weightless, simply dancing your wrist around is not the fastest/most efficient way to get your sword into position.

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  16. #26
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member killy-.-'s Avatar
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    Re: The Claymore Sword

    U are right, my post didnt make any sense at all

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