Not a member? Register now!
Announcements
Manga returns! Catch up with the details. Enjoy downloading, translating, and scanlating manga HERE legally!
Like us on Facebook, follow us on Twitter! Celebrate another year with MH and read our yearbook.
Manga News: Check out this week's new manga (9/15/14 - 9/21/14).
Forum News: Visit new sections for Nisekoi and Kingdom!
Translations: Gintama 510 (2) , Naruto 692 by aegon-rokudo
New Reply
Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 69

Thread: Higa versus Hyotei

  1. #16
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member -Ken-'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Country
    Thailand
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,351
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Higa versus Hyotei

    Quote Originally Posted by floman View Post
    Okay so then Hyotei has an overwhelming majority. So if they were to have hypothetically beaten Higa in the nationals (pretending Seigaku lost in the first round) Hyotei would face Shtenhouji.

    Singles 3: Shiraishi versus Hiyoshi

    Doubles 2: Mukahi and Yuushi versus Yuji and Hitouji

    Singles 2: Chitose versus Kabaji/Jirou

    Doubles 1: Silver Pair versus Kenya and Gin

    Singles 1: Atobe versus Kin

    Should this be the order and who do you think would win?
    Hyoutei vs Shitenhouji was already cover in great detail in this thread. It doesn't change much since then.

    http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showth...-%28Schools%29
    Most of the thing I post is probably assumption if it's not a fact that I support using some evidence from the manga.

    If you knows you're on my ignore list and you quote my post, there's high chance I would ignore you. Or answer you and not look at your response.

  2. #17
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Country
    India
    Posts
    253
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Higa versus Hyotei

    Quote Originally Posted by -Ken- View Post
    Hyoutei vs Shitenhouji was already cover in great detail in this thread. It doesn't change much since then.

    http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showth...-%28Schools%29
    Even still I think this could be good to discuss. Do you think Atobe Kingdom can fight against TnK Kin. Also would Kin be able to use TnK against Atobe. Just like Ryoma hasn't used TnK since Yukimura Kin Chan's TnK specific to Oni?

  3. #18
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    United States
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,168
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Higa versus Hyotei

    Higa might have a chance if they guessed the lineup correctly. In particular, if you're pretty sure Atobe will play S1, you can just throw that game away.

    Shitenhoji can't lose to Hyotei. Only Atobe can possibly win one of the singles match against Kintaro/Shiriashi/Chitose, and Hyotei doesn't have a second strong doubles team no matter how they rearranged their roster. They will lose at least 2 of the singles and a doubles no matter what.

  4. #19
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Country
    India
    Posts
    253
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Higa versus Hyotei

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    Higa might have a chance if they guessed the lineup correctly. In particular, if you're pretty sure Atobe will play S1, you can just throw that game away.

    Shitenhoji can't lose to Hyotei. Only Atobe can possibly win one of the singles match against Kintaro/Shiriashi/Chitose, and Hyotei doesn't have a second strong doubles team no matter how they rearranged their roster. They will lose at least 2 of the singles and a doubles no matter what.
    That's saying that Kabaji cannot learn Saiki. If Kabaji does then it's back to anyone's game.. I think Hyotei can take second doubles with Yuushi and Gakuto. If they win one other match it becomes a face off between Atobe and Kin Chan.
    Last edited by floman; September 16, 2013 at 08:06 PM.

  5. #20
    Intl Translator 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Airgrimes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Beika City
    Country
    Marine Headquarters
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    3,365
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Higa versus Hyotei

    Quote Originally Posted by floman View Post
    That's saying that Kabaji cannot learn Saiki. If Kabaji does then it's back to anyone's game.. I think Hyotei can take second doubles with Yuushi and Gakuto. If they win one other match it becomes a face off between Atobe and Kin Chan.
    Kin has TnK. Atobe cannot win.
    Also, a factor will arise in the match preventing Kabaji beating Chitose.
    Chitose is a far more experienced player. He'll be able to think of something.
    Like, Chitose could just go Standard Muga state and spam other people's moves.

  6. #21
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    United States
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,168
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Higa versus Hyotei

    Copying Saiki isn't enough to beat Chitose because Chitose still has higher base stats. The reason why Tezuka can't overcome Kabaji with his superior base stats was because Hyakuren renders technique irrelevent (it can return anything on its own) and obviously Kabaji does have higher power. Saiki does not favor any particular stat if both characters have it so the guy with the overall higher stat will still win, whereas Hyakuren always favors the guy with higher power if both characters have it since all other stats are negated by the double returning property.

  7. Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked this post
  8. #22
    THE MH FOODIE 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Sai_the_Shaman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Country
    Earth Kindom
    Age
    26
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,838
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Higa versus Hyotei

    I don't think that Tezuka really was having too much of an issue with Kabaji personally...Now that we have some stats and even if you were to lower them a bit for the nationals, Kabaji has a 1 in speed. If Tezuka wanted to, he could have just aimed for corner shots like he did with Atobe back in the Tokyo prefecturals and Atobe wouldn't have been able to reach them. I think part of the head on match he had with Kabaji was to show that just copying Hyakuren doesn't mean you can use it perfectly.

  9. #23
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Country
    India
    Posts
    253
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Higa versus Hyotei

    Quote Originally Posted by Sai_the_Shaman View Post
    I don't think that Tezuka really was having too much of an issue with Kabaji personally...Now that we have some stats and even if you were to lower them a bit for the nationals, Kabaji has a 1 in speed. If Tezuka wanted to, he could have just aimed for corner shots like he did with Atobe back in the Tokyo prefecturals and Atobe wouldn't have been able to reach them.
    I'm not 100% sure but I think Kabaji absorbed the Tezuka zone, so Tezuka couldn't hit to the corners.

    Kabaji was also able to absorb techniques from the top 20 just by seeing them once. I think if Chitose were to use Muga he would be creating a super powerful Kabaji.

    I think if Kin can't access TnK, Atobe would win. Ryoma hasn't accessed TnK since he played Yukimura. Do you think maybe Kin Chan's TnK is exclusive to Oni. That the reason he was able to access it was because his opponent played him in a head on power battle?

    If so Atobe wouldn't be playing him in terms of power, he would be hitting not so powerful balls that Kin Chan just can't reach.

  10. #24
    THE MH FOODIE 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Sai_the_Shaman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Country
    Earth Kindom
    Age
    26
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,838
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Higa versus Hyotei

    ah right, i forgot about tezuka zone getting copied...that changes a bit...

    in regards to Kintarou's TnK. I think that it depends. The whole point to accessing TnK for everyone except Tezuka is to truly love playing tennis and love the challenge no matter winning or losing. So if atobe proves enough of a challenge, i think Kintarou can activate it.

  11. #25
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    United States
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,168
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Higa versus Hyotei

    Quote Originally Posted by Sai_the_Shaman View Post
    I don't think that Tezuka really was having too much of an issue with Kabaji personally...Now that we have some stats and even if you were to lower them a bit for the nationals, Kabaji has a 1 in speed. If Tezuka wanted to, he could have just aimed for corner shots like he did with Atobe back in the Tokyo prefecturals and Atobe wouldn't have been able to reach them. I think part of the head on match he had with Kabaji was to show that just copying Hyakuren doesn't mean you can use it perfectly.
    It's implied Tezuka always used Tezuka Zone in conjunction with Hyakuren to overcome the fact that you're very slow while using Hyakuren, so I'd assume Kabaji also copied Tezuka Zone while he's using Hyakuren, which renders his speed irrelevent.

    I guess if Kabaji was playing anyone else his lack of speed would hurt him even if he has Hyakuren, but it just happens Tezuka's moveset basically renders any stat besides power irrelevent (Zone neutralizes speed, Hyakuren neutralizes tech).

    ---------- Post added at 02:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:39 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by floman View Post
    I'm not 100% sure but I think Kabaji absorbed the Tezuka zone, so Tezuka couldn't hit to the corners.

    Kabaji was also able to absorb techniques from the top 20 just by seeing them once. I think if Chitose were to use Muga he would be creating a super powerful Kabaji.

    I think if Kin can't access TnK, Atobe would win. Ryoma hasn't accessed TnK since he played Yukimura. Do you think maybe Kin Chan's TnK is exclusive to Oni. That the reason he was able to access it was because his opponent played him in a head on power battle?

    If so Atobe wouldn't be playing him in terms of power, he would be hitting not so powerful balls that Kin Chan just can't reach.
    Kabaji seems to have a limited memory on what he can copy. Otherwise by now he should the moves of every character he's ever met. Since Chitose is said to be a good strategist, the easiest way to deal with Kabaji is use some weak moves with Muga to trick Kabaji into copying it, and then easily score off him while he's using a useless move. Kabaji can only tie with his opponent unless it's a power shot, and that's because Kabaji is stronger than most characters to begin with, so all you'd need is a sequence that goes like:

    Chitose uses a weak move (say, something from St. Rudolph) and scores a point (generally Kabaji loses a point to the move he saw the first time and then tries to get the next point back with that move)
    Kabaji copies the move
    Chitose easily scores the next point because Kabaji is using a weak move

    At this point he's two points ahead and he can just trade points and still win that game. Now if there's a way for Kabaji to be selective about what move he copies, this won't work, but so far it seems to me Kabaji just copies any move without thinking about it, so he doesn't have the option of not copying either.

  12. #26
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Country
    India
    Posts
    253
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Higa versus Hyotei

    Kabaji seems to have a limited memory on what he can copy. Otherwise by now he should the moves of every character he's ever met. Since Chitose is said to be a good strategist, the easiest way to deal with Kabaji is use some weak moves with Muga to trick Kabaji into copying it, and then easily score off him while he's using a useless move. Kabaji can only tie with his opponent unless it's a power shot, and that's because Kabaji is stronger than most characters to begin with, so all you'd need is a sequence that goes like:

    Chitose uses a weak move (say, something from St. Rudolph) and scores a point (generally Kabaji loses a point to the move he saw the first time and then tries to get the next point back with that move)
    Kabaji copies the move
    Chitose easily scores the next point because Kabaji is using a weak move

    At this point he's two points ahead and he can just trade points and still win that game. Now if there's a way for Kabaji to be selective about what move he copies, this won't work, but so far it seems to me Kabaji just copies any move without thinking about it, so he doesn't have the option of not copying either.[/QUOTE]



    At least with Tezuka he seems to remember everything he sees in a given match (otherwise he would have forgotten the zone when using Hyaruken). Also I think it's not required that Kabaji loses a point before he learns how to copy.

    I believe he copied Ban without losing a point. So if Chitose uses a weak move I think Kabaji will be able to return it. Furthermore we are forgetting about Chitose's blind side.

    If Kabaji is hitting powerful shots (which he naturally hits) to Chitose's blind spot Kabaji can win (Tachibana never aimed for it except for the last shot and it was never mentioned in Tezuka's match because Tezuka doesn't need that stuff to win).

    Furthermore to get past kabaji in the first place you need powerful techniques, he was good enough to be the number 13 representative.

    ---------- Post added at 11:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:32 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Sai_the_Shaman View Post
    ah right, i forgot about tezuka zone getting copied...that changes a bit...

    in regards to Kintarou's TnK. I think that it depends. The whole point to accessing TnK for everyone except Tezuka is to truly love playing tennis and love the challenge no matter winning or losing. So if atobe proves enough of a challenge, i think Kintarou can activate it.
    I'm not 100% that Atobe is a challenge in the same way that Oni and Yukimura were to Kin and Ryoma respectively.

    Also what was the point of Tezuka accessing TnK?

  13. #27
    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Kaoz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Country
    Germany
    Age
    23
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    3,228
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Higa versus Hyotei

    Quote Originally Posted by floman View Post
    Furthermore to get past kabaji in the first place you need powerful techniques, he was good enough to be the number 13 representative.
    He only got the badge because Date and Ban forfeited at match point. That's hardly what I'd call earning the position.

  14. #28
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    United States
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,168
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Higa versus Hyotei

    When Niou turned into Kabaji to score a crucial point in the doubles match, Atobe told him to quickly turn back to Tezuka or he'll quickly lose. So Kabaji is not exactly hard to score on. The guys he played usually aren't very good either, and Tezuka is an exception because Tezuka Zone helps Kabaji more than it helps Tezuka (in fact you can say Tezuka was dumb to use Zone at all).

  15. #29
    Intl Translator 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Airgrimes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Beika City
    Country
    Marine Headquarters
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    3,365
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Higa versus Hyotei

    Chitose could just spam Tightrope Walking, a move which he used against Tachibana whilst in Muga.
    Kabaji CANNOT hit back a Tightrope Walking with a Tightrope Walking lol.
    Game set match in Chitose's favour.

    Shitenhouji are simply better than Hyoutei through and through.

  16. #30
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Country
    United States
    Age
    24
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    9
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Higa versus Hyotei

    Why do we assume Chitose can control what shot he uses in Muga? Am I just not knowledged enough, I thought usually it was unconscious, but he is smart idk.

    Why do we assume Chitose would even play?

    Kin can for whatever reason reach almost any ball in ryoma vs kin. I dont remember world of ice being tried, so maybe that would be interesting, but unlikely.
    Also it looks like Tezuka can TnK at will unless Fuji/all tennis with no rules is fun to him. But that would be a now and not then.

New Reply
Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts