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Translations: Gintama 507 (2)
The problem is the lack of originality, not even for the end or nearly end of the series he was capable of creating something on his own, he had to borrow from one of the oldest and most famous fictional stories on earth while mixing it with one of the most famous jaoanese fables/legends. It's tragic that he had to do so.
Last edited by Schabrak; September 18, 2013 at 09:56 AM. Reason: -u +o , He should burrow from somewhere else though, not the famous ones
Well all of the uchiha stuff is shinto dogma
I dont have a huge problem with borrowing from mythology, i do beleive this war arc could have been much better
but i blame the poor plot development on kishi rushing through, maybe for monetary or contractual reasons as opposed to lack of originality
Either way we as a fanbase are largely dissatisfied
this tree issue or element isnt all that bad
i just wish kishi would have went the route of kubo and taken a few weeks off to gather his thoughts and make this ending better
instead of rushing through it half assed
What do you mean with rushed? The last bit of the war, when Gai/Kakashi/Naruto vs Obito began or the whole war?
Feels as if everything from the start of the war to now was rushed horribly. But I'm guessing the tree is a douche because it didn't want the humans to eat its dangerous fruit. The fruit was probably used to regulate the world or something, and now after being consumed another fruit can't grow. Or the Juubi was biding its time trying to get more chakra from the fruit, though that makes no sense either.
What if the chakra fruit was meant for animals?
Madaras a douche bag. But hes an epically badass total monsterous overwhelming fearless asswipe with a cool haircut type of douche bag that anybody wants as a friend. Haha, excuse my very bad spelling, i'm not feeling very proper right now.
Along side the tree, well it has no emotions, so of course its a douche.
God knows everything that people will do and think. He knows this before they are even born. He knows everything that has and will happen.
Therefore, the question is not why God created the tree or fruit, but why is this even a test to begin with?
As for the tree. Well, a tree needs something to do.
Perhaps it felt left out, as the humans were having so much fun killing each other, and it wanted in on the action. However, going with its petty attitude, it didn't want to be seen as being on the wrong side. Thus, it concocted this ingenious plan to tempt the humans into going against the tree's wishes, to give it an excuse to go all nuclear on them, whilst still keeping its holier than thou aura that it has so carefully and painstakingly built up...
Pity this plan backfired so catastrophically for the tree ね...
Because it's a fictional story about a omnipotent being controling the ways of men, created to give people some moral compass, while also giving a single tribe, the one creating the narrative, the entitlement to be better than the rest. The fruit was there to test the obidience, though in the end it was just a way to make people feel bad and strive for betterment as they were born with sin from now on.
Last edited by Schabrak; September 17, 2013 at 04:24 AM.
I hope this doesn't turn too theistic, I was bringing up Adam and Eve because of the obvious similarities. The problem id we compare though is that in one story the almighty god that knows everything and is brilliant is behind the shots, petty or not, it is a thinking intelligent being.
Here it's a giant garlic turning into a tree that does the most inconsistent thing I have ever seen and the being is dumb to boot.
Maybe the question should be, why did the god tree make the fruit?
Last edited by Sanadan; September 17, 2013 at 01:30 PM.
The way I see it, the inconsistency in this development leading to "the god tree [being] a giant douche bag" is because of the author's lack of understanding of the moral behind the biblical story of Adam and Eve.
The main reason the tree seems so ridiculously inconsistent and impossible to relate to is that in the actual story, there was no evil (or knowledge of comparing good and evil) in the world before Adam and Eve ate the fruit; but in this story (from Naruto), evil and violence was there to begin with and eating the fruit changed absolutely nothing except change the scale of the violence and evil.
It makes things even worse in the context of what Nagato was trying to do and how Naruto's and Jiraiya's goals fit into everything because in the biblical story, a sinless sacrifice had to be made to save the people from the punishment for eating from the tree by their ancestor; however, even solving the problem with the tree and getting rid of chakra or the shinobi system isn't going to solve anything in this story since the tree or its fruit had nothing to do with war existing in Naruto's world.
The author does not need to understand the morals of other religions for his own story. The morals and message here is not the same. At large naruto has turned to be about hatred and the perpetration of fighting through more fighting. Its not about good and evil and sin vs lack of sin or anything of the sort. So you have that humans originally fought as normal people. Then the shinju came to the equation and people learned chakra. Learning chakra brought about something better than what existed before but in turn it also increased the scale of conflict. Then years pass and shinobi form clans. Things are slightly better than they were before but chakra still allows for a greater scale of conflict. Then we have villages which did the same. Lives improved but conflict still became of a greater scale.
That said, everything coming down to this is not a weird development considering the manga. The story has been borrowing from mythology for way too long. Most of the important parts of the manga are in some way related to some myth. The biju, the sannin, the sharinhan abilities, the jubi names.... Adding a tree does not change the motif at all.
I don't think the problem people have with the tree idea is that it's borrowed from myths like most other ideas in the story. The problem is that the idea of the tree was used in such a way that is logically and psychologically inconsistent to the point that people can't relate to it enough to think that the story makes much sense without sounding overly ridiculous.
What I am saying is that the world tree/forbidden fruit idea was used improperly going so far as to make it so that some woman ate the fruit and her child became the sage who brought ninjutsu into the world that's so disconnected and warped in theory with what people are used to when thinking of such a situation.
If it bothers you that I pointed this out, I'm sorry... but this isn't the 1st manga where I've seen a complete lack of understanding of biblical based myths/legends (and the morals behind those stories) used by authors to make some warped point that makes no sense because it's taken out of context.
Also, what Naruto, Jiriaya, and to some extent, Nagato wanted was to bring peace and understanding to the world. This is where the sage of six paths was 1st introduced into the story through Nagato's rinnegan as the child of prophecy. This is the context where I'm saying the god tree idea doesn't fit in because regardless of whether the way of the shinobi comes to an end, it wouldn't necessarily mean that Naruto (and by extention Jiraiya and Nagato) will achieved what he wanted.
Finally, I will agree with you this much.... you were right that adding the tree didn't change much because it wouldn't have made much of a difference whether the Jyuubi was a tree or not. In the sense that the author is trying to connect different parts of the story about senju, uchiha, bijuu, etc. it was well done. But the back story of the tree (particularly its behavior) still doesn't add up.
I think we need a giant chainsaw and a lumberjack ninja to rid of this tree once and for all.