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Thread: Oni in retrospect

  1. #31
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member -Ken-'s Avatar
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    Re: Oni in retrospect

    It wasn't until Kishin mode is use that Oni score some points from Kintarou, I think. Not even 10 ball steal points from him. And with Kishin mode, Oni power is clearly no longer at #5.
    Most of the thing I post is probably assumption if it's not a fact that I support using some evidence from the manga.

    If you knows you're on my ignore list and you quote my post, there's high chance I would ignore you. Or answer you and not look at your response.

  2. #32
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Hardy's Avatar
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    Re: Oni in retrospect

    Quote Originally Posted by -Ken- View Post
    It wasn't until Kishin mode is use that Oni score some points from Kintarou, I think. Not even 10 ball steal points from him. And with Kishin mode, Oni power is clearly no longer at #5.
    Oni with BJK and 10 balls ain't #5 power either, otw he wouldn't had used Kisihin against Kaji.

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Also, taking 3 games from an Oni who only has BJK at his disposal is sort of expected from Tooyama.
    Remember Nationals!Tooyama was already able to fight back against the Oni that must have faced Momoshiro when Ryoma/Kintaro took on Tokugawa/Oni.
    So it could be implied Oni played the same as before to see how much Kintaro had improved since last time.
    Yup, I totally agree.

    I said it before, Kintarou was beter than Hakamada but he couldn't return his Vanish. Once he did, he owned. He wasn't hiding any potential.

    I don't think that a Hs would tell Tooyama off btw, lol

  3. #33
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member -Ken-'s Avatar
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    Re: Oni in retrospect

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardy View Post
    Oni with BJK and 10 balls ain't #5 power either, otw he wouldn't had used Kisihin against Kaji.
    Oni without Kishin is #5. That's the number Konomi given to us. It's his number ever since the beginning of the manga when he first appear and introduce himself. Why bother risking 7-6 when you can dominate Kaji with Kishin? So if Oni without BJK and 210 ball isn't #5, what is? Give example. Oni with Kishin is sure as hell not #5.

    Kaji is in the medical room and is unlikely to play again. That means he got dominated.
    Most of the thing I post is probably assumption if it's not a fact that I support using some evidence from the manga.

    If you knows you're on my ignore list and you quote my post, there's high chance I would ignore you. Or answer you and not look at your response.

  4. #34
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Hardy's Avatar
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    Re: Oni in retrospect

    Oni with 10 balls and BJK but without Kishin is a strong guy with unkown potential as he (as far as we know) never played against a decent rival this way, and when he did he was getting "destroyed" by Tooyama. Kishin dominated Kaji, yes... so? It's a godlike Aura, good enough to beat Byoudouin ffs, dunno what's your point there.

    Kishin Oni might be above #5, but on the other hand 10 balls and BJK isn't good enough for tthat spot.

    ---------- Post added at 01:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:53 PM ----------

    210 balls seems op btw ^^

  5. #35
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    Re: Oni in retrospect

    Quote Originally Posted by -Ken- View Post
    Oni without Kishin is #5. That's the number Konomi given to us. It's his number ever since the beginning of the manga when he first appear and introduce himself. Why bother risking 7-6 when you can dominate Kaji with Kishin? So if Oni without BJK and 210 ball isn't #5, what is? Give example. Oni with Kishin is sure as hell not #5.
    You're right that Oni with 10 Ball Strike is the No.5, however Oni wasn't playing at his 10BallStrike level against Tooyama when he conceded 3 games.
    He didn't play at that level in the camp until he crushed Kaji and til he brought it out against Tooyama and then the court went on fire.

  6. #36
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    Re: Oni in retrospect

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    You're right that Oni with 10 Ball Strike is the No.5, however Oni wasn't playing at his 10BallStrike level against Tooyama when he conceded 3 games.
    He didn't play at that level in the camp until he crushed Kaji and til he brought it out against Tooyama and then the court went on fire.
    The thing is that 10 ball Oni doesn't exactly win points against Kintarou either. And thus, I doubt Kintarou was using his full strength when he's playing against Hakamada. Hakamada is probably died to 10 ball.

    ---------- Post added at 07:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:24 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardy View Post
    Oni with 10 balls and BJK but without Kishin is a strong guy with unkown potential as he (as far as we know) never played against a decent rival this way, and when he did he was getting "destroyed" by Tooyama. Kishin dominated Kaji, yes... so? It's a godlike Aura, good enough to beat Byoudouin ffs, dunno what's your point there.

    Kishin Oni might be above #5, but on the other hand 10 balls and BJK isn't good enough for tthat spot.

    ---------- Post added at 01:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:53 PM ----------

    210 balls seems op btw ^^
    I think BJK Oni is below #5 spot, but add 10 ball and I think that's pretty much where the spots lies.
    Most of the thing I post is probably assumption if it's not a fact that I support using some evidence from the manga.

    If you knows you're on my ignore list and you quote my post, there's high chance I would ignore you. Or answer you and not look at your response.

  7. #37
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Philia's Avatar
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    Re: Oni in retrospect

    I think BJK Oni +10 balls can defeat Ohmagari.
    So, I think usual Oni is #5. Kishin Oni is much higher.

  8. #38
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    Re: Oni in retrospect

    Quote Originally Posted by Yukikuranoske View Post
    I think BJK Oni +10 balls can defeat Ohmagari.
    So, I think usual Oni is #5. Kishin Oni is much higher.
    Definitely when Oni uses the 10 ball strike, Ohmagari says "do you want to destroy the guy you have been training." I always thought that showed that Ohmagari would have trouble returning the 10 ball strike.

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    Re: Oni in retrospect

    Since the coach on the mountain did say you can beat Oni if you can do 10-ball, it stands to reason that Oni normally keeps his power level at below the 10-ball level.

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    Re: Oni in retrospect

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    Since the coach on the mountain did say you can beat Oni if you can do 10-ball, it stands to reason that Oni normally keeps his power level at below the 10-ball level.
    He said you won't be able to beat Oni or Tokugawa till you can return 10 balls. So basically if you cannot return ten balls, you will lose for sure.

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  12. #41
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    Re: Oni in retrospect

    Quote Originally Posted by floman View Post
    He said you won't be able to beat Oni or Tokugawa till you can return 10 balls. So basically if you cannot return ten balls, you will lose for sure.
    Yes but then Ryoma said that means if you can do 10-ball you can beat them so the implication is that you potentially could beat Oni with just 10-ball, implying his level is below that. If Oni didn't have Kishin mode, he probably would've lost to Kintaro when he did the flaming ball shot, so it's not unreasonable to say Oni's apparent level is below 10-ball.

  13. #42
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    Re: Oni in retrospect

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    Yes but then Ryoma said that means if you can do 10-ball you can beat them so the implication is that you potentially could beat Oni with just 10-ball, implying his level is below that. If Oni didn't have Kishin mode, he probably would've lost to Kintaro when he did the flaming ball shot, so it's not unreasonable to say Oni's apparent level is below 10-ball.
    The coach replied by cursing him off. Ryoma can assume whatever he wants. If you asked Ryoma before he saw Akutsu play seriously whether Akutsu could hit back ten balls he would have said if you can hit back ten balls then you can beat Akutsu (which definitely isn't true). Oni can definitely rally with ten balls in his normal state. It would be ridiculous if he could split the ball into ten and then not return ten.

    ---------- Post added at 01:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:14 PM ----------

    Kintaro even says "I'm keeping up with your pace Oni." It's not like Kintaro was destroying Oni when he used the ten ball strike.

  14. #43
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    Re: Oni in retrospect

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantron View Post
    Yes but then Ryoma said that means if you can do 10-ball you can beat them so the implication is that you potentially could beat Oni with just 10-ball, implying his level is below that. If Oni didn't have Kishin mode, he probably would've lost to Kintaro when he did the flaming ball shot, so it's not unreasonable to say Oni's apparent level is below 10-ball.
    Ryoma and Kintarou can't split the ball on their own according to the fanbook, so for them (and almost everyone else), being able to hit multiple balls seems to be purely defensive.

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    Re: Oni in retrospect

    Since Kintaro beat Hakamada without even being serious, we can infer that there are at most a handful of guys in the entire camp that can beat a 5-ball capable guy. Keep in mind Oni's power is mysterious but it can't be like the usual 'mysterious as in never losing' because then there wouldn't be anything mysterious about that. People would just say oh it's Oni the guy who never loses. If you look at the way other people talk about him, outside of those who know him back in H1 most people obviously thought he's someone who can be beaten. I don't see how that's possible if he regularly even uses 10-ball level power, unless the guys challenging him are just downright insane.

  16. #45
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    Re: Oni in retrospect

    "Most people?" When Oni was first introduced, it sure didn't seem like anyone on the lower courts thought that way, given that Oni was said to beat down everyone who tries to advance past 5th court. Taira and Hara looked pretty scared too at the mere sight of a Black Jack Knife. Byoudouin, Tanegashima and Duke probably beat Oni at some point, and Tokugawa and Irie are maybes, but I don't see why Oni would have had to have lost against anyone else.

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