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Thread: Naruto with Yin kyuubi/toad hermit upgrade (current naruto) vs Hashirama alive in his prime

  1. #16
    MangaHelper MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Rikudou King's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto with Yin kyuubi/toad hermit upgrade (current naruto) vs Hashirama alive in his prime

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    Naruto has the will TO NEVER GIVE UP. Said so from PART 1. Genjutsu and Kurama's evil are not the same damn thing.
    Genjutsu is obviously (i hope) why its not the same thing.
    Kurama was using Naruto's own feelings to help his cause.
    First off, regardless of what was said in the past, Naruto has nearly given up numerous times. As previously mentioned, Naruto has nearly given up twice this arc alone: Neji's death and after being drained by the Shinju. It was only due to external influences (Hinata and Sasuke) that he gained back his resolve. Secondly, not giving up is not willpower. Despite the Gokages being unwilling to give up against Madara, they still were taken down by the pollen. Thirdly, both countering genjutsu and the Kyuubi's chakra involve willpower. We have seen, via Shikamaru and Kakashi, that having a strong will could delay being affected by a genjutsu. And we were specifically told that Naruto's battle for the Kyuubi's chakra would involve strength of will. Before Kushina appeared, Naruto was getting overwhelmed by the Kyuubi's will. So what evidence is there supporting the idea that Naruto won't be taken down by the pollen?

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    He jumped after pushing them down. The roods down below are not that tall.
    You can see here as they are spawning what size they got:
    http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/575/2

    The link, this one:
    http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/575/4
    Has the ground getting busted up where Madara JUMPED NEXT TO THEM, RIGHT ON THE GROUND.

    As for the last part i guess you never whent to the circus... You also never noticed dogs sitting on their back legs? Come on man... Animals can stand on those 2 legs AND MOVE. They can't move as fast, or manuver as good but they CAN move.

    That was NOT based on Juubi. They did not even KNOW about the Juubi at that point. Its ALL Kurama. Naruto in 3 tails (or was it 4?) decimated a huge part of the forest by smashing his bloody hand in the ground.

    You also did not provide any LINKS to where Hashirama is draining senjutsu chakra.
    You can see pieces of the bark being thrown up around Madara's Susanoo as he emerges. And the roots were quite high off the ground. The Gokages, when they fell to the ground, were deep underneath numerous layers of roots. Also as mentioned, the size of Madara's Susanoo wasn't much taller then the roots.

    That requires the animal to be trained and even then they don't stand for longer then a moment or so. And yes, it was based on the Juubi. The Juubi is the only one shown with the ability to create massive destruction just by being. The Kyuubi has never shown that, outside of launching a Bijuu Blast.

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    And because Naruto has all the biju's chakra there is no reason why he can't turn in some Narubito right now... Not even inferior that much more inferior to Jubito as Kurama aparently has more chakra then all those biju's put togeder...
    If you have evidence that he can drain SENJUTSU then be my guess.
    The point Naruto enters SM all he has is senjutsu chakra. If Senjutsu is already formed you are not turning it unstable unless you get THAT mix wrong somehow. Only way what you said to work is for Naruto to try to go SM as he is getting drained.
    Aside from the fact that having the chakra of the Bijuus =/= the Juubi, Naruto has neither Senju or Uchiha Dna required. Senjutsu is normal chakra. There's no reason he wouldn't be able to absorb it as he absorbs the Kyuubi's chakra given the mechanics for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    Its going to be big enough lol. Hashirama does not have a shield around himself. The blast would hit him if he sits on top of that thing.
    That thing did go bigger and that damn thing overwhelmed (almost) and pushed back the damn Sage of 6 paths reborn... Sorry something WAY, WAY bigger then that would turn that statue to dust even if it takes 2 shoots.
    Not compared to the complete Kyuubi. Hashirama did have a shield, not to mention his Rashomon summons. The Rasengan wasn't that much bigger, and the Bijuu Blast wouldn't be "way, way bigger", especially since Naruto only has half of the Kyuubi's chakra. Nor is there any way it's gonna be stronger then a Bijuu Blast from the complete Kyuubi.

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    Hashirama was never blasted by Kyuubi blasts. He always used something in the way.
    If its something that a black shield from the SO6P get's pushed back then Hashirama is toast... That is unless you believe Hashirama is on that dudes level...
    Its a huge difference in power betweeen bijudama's. Not all have the same power.
    Where did he tank continental explosion anyway? If he could do that i see no reason why Naruto had to save the alliance from 3 bijudama's when Hashirama's clone with infinite chakra and supercharged by Kurama's chakra was RIGHT F***** THERE.

    Those gates need distance... Naruto can shunshin to him, pop Kurama's head and blast the hell out of him. Huge difference from fighting Kurama and Naruto.
    Which says plenty for the idea that Naruto would be able to succeed. And we have outright seen that Hashirama's defenses can tank a blast from the complete Kyuubi. Unless you can somehow show that half of the Kyuubi is as strong as the complete Kyuubi, that argument fails. And I gave links showing Hashirama tanking some massive explosions.

    The gates don't need distances, aside from whatever space they take up. And Naruto wouldn't be able to just pop the Kyuubi's head and blast faster then Hashirama could counter.

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    Naruto can just create 1000 clones and start running in different direction only returning when the genjutsu is done. Try stoping that one... Naruto is leaps and bounds faster then Hashirama at running. He is so fast that Kakashi with a sharingan count not track him as he deflected multiple bijudama's WITH SPEED ALONE.
    Of course in the manga he keeps forgeting he has abilities but here "plot no jutsu" does not work.
    Naruto can only create a dozen cloaked clones, meaning it wouldn't be hard for Hashirama to create just as many clones to take them down. And Naruto having his clones run around doesn't help counter the genjutsu, nor would it help against the pollen. Hashirama was on par with Madara, who was shown incredibly fast.

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    Yes he can pop wood around Naruto... Thing is that Naruto can be a clone, that Naruto can go small and dodge... And a good number of other things. Naruto=Kurama.
    It's fortunate that Hashirama wouldn't be limited to solely targeting only a single Naruto, and that Hashirama's other abilities would lockdown the battle for him. What other things could Naruto do?

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    Seal Kurama's chakra? Just after you can prove he can do that with senjutsu (real evidence not possible scenarios). Not don't get me wrong IT IS possible but to the point you can prove it with evidence this is irrelevant.
    Senjutsu is not a factor. If it was, then none of Hashirama's seals would work against the Juubi.

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    Seal it down? Naruto goes small and runs lol. Hell Hashirama also has to deal with a ton of clones (i am aware he also has clones) and a lot of summons.
    Naruto being small or fast in no way would prevent him from being caught. And Hashirama doesn't have a lot to deal with. Between his Darkness genjutsu and pollen, he can lockdown the battle. Any giant toads would be detained by his Mokuton. And of course, there's Naruto's time limit for both his modes.

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    Hashirama can't create a barrier like that by himself with clones. Don't ask me why but its manga fact that he needed the other 3 Hokages.
    There is nothing in the manga suggesting that Hashirama wouldn't be able to create the barrier on his own. All that was stated as a requirement was four ninjas of Hokage level, which four Hashirama clones would be.

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    The darkness genjutsu is irrelevant as Naruto has a TP remember? Genjutsu does not work on him (Itachi as the only exception).
    A Bijuu does not prevent a genjutsu from working, it only helps from freeing the host, and breaking out of the Darkness doesn't appear to be an easy task judging by Sarutobi's action.

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    Hashirama, sorry to say can't pull any type of hide and go seak with Naruto. Naruto has the best sensing abilities in the manga. He also has the ability to turn the entire area to dust after Hashirama goes to sleep. Does not matter how many clones are there.
    Sensing doesn't differentiate between the user and their chakra, and sensing malice wouldn't work with someone like Hashirama. Naruto would have no way to find Hashirama within his own Mokuton. Nor would he be able to devastate the entire area, except with a Bijuu Blast which would be easy for Hashirama to grab. Hashirama being able to match Naruto clone for clone means there is no advantage, but disadvantage for Naruto.

  2. #17
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member shafagh's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto with Yin kyuubi/toad hermit upgrade (current naruto) vs Hashirama alive in his prime

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Hashirama, easily. He has too many ways to take care of Naruto, Madara could have done the same too but plot prevented him.
    all , Madara did against NAruto and Bee was sitting and saying " Oh well " and he almost stomp them without even become serious ...


    a question :

    when Hashirama said QB has almost equal chakra as himself , he meant him in his base mode or in Sage mode !?
    خداحافظ

  3. #18
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    Re: Naruto with Yin kyuubi/toad hermit upgrade (current naruto) vs Hashirama alive in his prime

    Quote Originally Posted by shafagh View Post
    when Hashirama said QB has almost equal chakra as himself , he meant him in his base mode or in Sage mode !?
    He said it in base mode, so presumably that's the mode he was comparing.

  4. #19
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto with Yin kyuubi/toad hermit upgrade (current naruto) vs Hashirama alive in his prime

    I'm thinkin base mode, as Sage Mode does not give extra chakra. Either way, Naruto has absolutely no chance here against Hashirama unless he finds a way to drain Hashirama of his chakra or make him unable to use jutsu.

  5. #20
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member shafagh's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto with Yin kyuubi/toad hermit upgrade (current naruto) vs Hashirama alive in his prime

    so Naruto sage mode won't give any advantage ... then .... well , plot armors don't work here so , Hashirama stomp .... Maybe I would give a chance of wining to Naruto if he has more jutsu but with only Kage bunshin and Rasengan , there no way in the hell that he beat Hashirama ....
    خداحافظ

  6. #21
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Lemonadez's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto with Yin kyuubi/toad hermit upgrade (current naruto) vs Hashirama alive in his prime

    Quote Originally Posted by Kisame Hoshigaki View Post
    honestly i am leaning towards naruto now in this fight, he is much, much more powerful than he was at the beginning of this arc, and now naruto may be the strongest character to ever live other than the RS
    When Naruto Kyuubi + Minato Kyuubi. Both of them combined their chakra... Harashima stated that their chakra is comparable to his.. So Harashima solo Minato with only half chakra.

    and sage jutsu is weakness of biju..

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