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Thread: I don't understand Reiner's and Berthold's way of doing things

  1. #16
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: I don't understand Reiner's and Berthold's way of doing things

    I guess that he thought Eren would be more likely to go with them if they convinced him (he wouldn't put up a fight either). If they tried to just grab him he would transform and fight (like he did). It makes sense to at least ask first. Plus Reiner could be in soldier mode or a bit of him could be. Berthold didn't want him to but as said he has no will of his own.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Yumpo's Avatar
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    Re: I don't understand Reiner's and Berthold's way of doing things

    Actually, I don't think it has to do just with Reiner's soldier persona. I think all three agreed not to break the walls anymore and instead just focus on capturing Eren only. Why? Because maybe of the massive guilt they felt when they broke Wall Maria. I don't think they want to soak their hands in blood any further than they already have and mass-murder two more times again. That's why they focused on a strategy that they'd think would create less casualties within the walls. Then, Reiner of course lost it and revealed their identities after.

    But seeing the progression of the story and if Bert were to hold true to his words in that moment with Armin, they may actually switch back to destruction of the walls, get Annie and possibly capture Eren. Of course, if they're smart enough. XD.

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    Translator 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member DarkLordOfKichiku's Avatar
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    Re: I don't understand Reiner's and Berthold's way of doing things

    Quote Originally Posted by Yumpo View Post
    Actually, I don't think it has to do just with Reiner's soldier persona. I think all three agreed not to break the walls anymore and instead just focus on capturing Eren only. Why? Because maybe of the massive guilt they felt when they broke Wall Maria. I don't think they want to soak their hands in blood any further than they already have and mass-murder two more times again. That's why they focused on a strategy that they'd think would create less casualties within the walls. Then, Reiner of course lost it and revealed their identities after.
    Sounds pausible

    Quote Originally Posted by Yumpo View Post
    But seeing the progression of the story and if Bert were to hold true to his words in that moment with Armin, they may actually switch back to destruction of the walls, get Annie and possibly capture Eren. Of course, if they're smart enough. XD.
    ... In case this happens: poor Armin, his sacrifie got'em Eren back, but will lead to more casualties in the long run . Though without Annie, even if they kick open the walls, the titans won't be swarming in immediately, at the very least...

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    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member kannazuki's Avatar
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    Re: I don't understand Reiner's and Berthold's way of doing things

    That's what I was wondering about what Armin said to Bertolt. Although it's true he believes he has no will of his own, Bert comes up with ideas of his own and acts according to his own personal feelings like anyone else. It was his own idea, for example, that they could go back to their hometown at that moment they saw the beast titan (but "Soldier Reiner" got confused and messed it up by outing himself and Bert to Eren right away instead of devising a careful plan to kidnap Eren (& Ymir?) and sneak off WITH essentials like food and water. He was influenced by Reiner forgiving Ymir because she was mindless when she ate Berik, but he still felt the need to ask her if she remembered anything about the incident. Then there's the situation with Armin. *Personally* I don't think Bert really means that he would kill everyone but if I'm wrong and he does, then Armin just threw away everyone in the walls for Eren.

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    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Demonspeed's Avatar
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    Re: I don't understand Reiner's and Berthold's way of doing things

    I don't see what Bert's team could do even with that, unless they can team up with others titans. Armin's info is most likely false. If they succeed to bring back Eren, they'll make preparations to be ready if the Colossal Titan attack. Annie can be used as an hostage too. Sure, a lot of persons will die if he attacks but it's nothing compared to all the informations they can get, Armin probably thought like that(and Erwin would agree).
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    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member mikasaaa's Avatar
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    Re: I don't understand Reiner's and Berthold's way of doing things

    Quote Originally Posted by Demonspeed View Post
    I don't see what Bert's team could do even with that, unless they can team up with others titans. Armin's info is most likely false. If they succeed to bring back Eren, they'll make preparations to be ready if the Colossal Titan attack. Annie can be used as an hostage too. Sure, a lot of persons will die if he attacks but it's nothing compared to all the informations they can get, Armin probably thought like that(and Erwin would agree).
    I'm pretty sure the Scouting Legion and the Stationary Guard will have devised a way to deal with the Colossal and Armored Titans by the time Bertholdt supposedly attacks the Utopia district. Like you said, if he teams up with other unknown shifters, then anything could happen. But the Military Police will make sure the district is properly evacuated before the attack.

    Too many people died because of RBA's actions already, Erwin can't afford to lose any more innocent lives like in Stohess.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Yumpo's Avatar
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    Re: I don't understand Reiner's and Berthold's way of doing things

    Actually the reason why I said if they are "smart enough" is because if they actually realize that Armin's info about Annie's location is false. I mean, what kind of enemy would give you the real location of your intended goal? The concentration of soldiers would likely be in both Utopia district and Stohess district rather than the other two. But if they actually decide on attacking the walls again and if they realized that Armin's info was false before they make a move, they could pretty much attack any parts of the walls. From the gates, to the actual wall. Let the Colossus Titans sleeping in the walls walk free (Armin's fear XD). It would make the strategy to fight against RB pretty shaky since like I said, most soldiers would either be placed in Stohess or Utopia district.

    But I guess that's even less likely. Considering how BR are in a panick-y mode right now and how they're not really as smart as Armin let alone Commander Erwin. Best bet is that they'd find that Beast Titan and ask for help. XD. They looked surprisingly happy when they saw the Beast Titan in Castle Utgard, according to Ymir. So they probably knew the Beast Titan and is less likely that it's one of RBA's enemy.

    But what Bert said is actually just a spur of the moment. We don't know if he really means it, unless he grumbles in the next chapter or two saying he'll gut those sons of the devils, play around their bodies and spin them like yo-yos. That's when we'll know he's actually serious. XDD
    Last edited by Yumpo; September 25, 2013 at 03:31 PM.

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  10. #23
    Translator 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member DarkLordOfKichiku's Avatar
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    Re: I don't understand Reiner's and Berthold's way of doing things

    Quote Originally Posted by Yumpo View Post
    Actually the reason why I said if they are "smart enough" is because if they actually realize that Armin's info about Annie's location is false. I mean, what kind of enemy would give you the real location of your intended goal? The concentration of soldiers would likely be in both Utopia district and Stohess district rather than the other two. But if they actually decide on attacking the walls again and if they realized that Armin's info was false before they make a move, they could pretty much attack any parts of the walls. From the gates, to the actual wall. Let the Colossus Titans sleeping in the walls walk free (Armin's fear XD). It would make the strategy to fight against RB pretty shaky since like I said, most soldiers would either be placed in Stohess or Utopia district.

    But I guess that's even less likely. Considering how BR are in a panick-y mode right now and how they're not really as smart as Armin let alone Commander Erwin. Best bet is that they'd find that Beast Titan and ask for help. XD. They looked surprisingly happy when they saw the Beast Titan in Castle Utgard, according to Ymir. So they probably knew the Beast Titan and is less likely that it's one of RBA's enemy.
    Well, part of what'd decide it would indee be how far they "trust" Armin. Armin has been a friend to them for a long time now, so even if they seem about to "Enemy-zone" him, part of them might still hold some amount of trust for what he says, so they might not question it right away. Besides, if they go back to the Walls and sneak in,they'd be able to confirm some parts of Armin's story at the very least. The fact that there was a fight between Titans inside of Wall Sina should be easy enough to find out, and if they can't find Annie where they otherwise would've been able to find her, it might just about confirm their worst fears (Armin's words) in their minds, and so...

    As for the Beast Titan, dunno if he'd actually help them that way if they are indeed on the same side. This is their mission, after all...

    Quote Originally Posted by Yumpo View Post
    But what Bert said is actually just a spur of the moment. We don't know if he really means it, unless he grumbles in the next chapter or two saying he'll gut those sons of the devils, play around their bodies and spin them like yo-yos. That's when we'll know he's actually serious. XDD
    Well, the better question is perhaps if he (and Reiner) feels that any guilt they might feel for killing the people of the Walls is outweighed by Annie being tortured. After all, it's implied that they've choosen to try and capture Eren because it's the lesser of two evils (if the choice is between wiping out the humans who live within the Walls and kidnapping a single person, well). They don't want to take the option of killing all humans within the Walls if that can be avoided, but if they feel that they're out of options, along with an anger at the humans within the Walls for supposedly torturing Annie, well...

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    Re: I don't understand Reiner's and Berthold's way of doing things

    Well, Berthold titan's form is not that quick. So he couldn't fight against all the brigade (as when he transformed and they almost got him). And for Reiner... don't think he alone could do something... or well, Annie and Reiner may be the difference.

    One thing I'm asking is:

    Was their mission taking Eren away since the first attack? And if so, why? I mean, back then Eren couldn't transform into Titan because he wasn't inyected. Why did they break the wall? Was another mission or what?

    I think their mission is what will make all this clear. We know they need to take Eren. But was that their goal back then? Now they know Eren can transform. Now they know Ymir can do. And wow, now with the last chapter having a flash and smiley appearing. Will they want to take him with them too?

    It seems like their mission is to find those different shifters. If you take a look, RBA titan's form are without skin, only flesh and bones. Eren and Ymir titan's form are with skin, are different types of transformations... so as Smiley (if it's true he's really a shifter).

    I don't know, I'm really confused with all of this :C ... but it's good to see all this theories running here I hope someone find the answer and we'll see that later in the manga displayed

    PS: Another thing... wasn't Berthold too small to use a 3D manauver back then when he broke the wall?

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    Translator 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member DarkLordOfKichiku's Avatar
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    Re: I don't understand Reiner's and Berthold's way of doing things

    Quote Originally Posted by Midian View Post
    Was their mission taking Eren away since the first attack? And if so, why? I mean, back then Eren couldn't transform into Titan because he wasn't inyected. Why did they break the wall? Was another mission or what?

    I think their mission is what will make all this clear. We know they need to take Eren. But was that their goal back then? Now they know Eren can transform. Now they know Ymir can do. And wow, now with the last chapter having a flash and smiley appearing. Will they want to take him with them too?

    It seems like their mission is to find those different shifters. If you take a look, RBA titan's form are without skin, only flesh and bones. Eren and Ymir titan's form are with skin, are different types of transformations... so as Smiley (if it's true he's really a shifter).
    They've stated back in Chapter 42 that their mission is/was to "Wipe out all the humans within the Wall(s)". However, it seems like an alternative objective of theirs (one which rendered their main objective unnecressary) was to find "The Coordinate". We don't know exactly why they think Eren's the Coordinate, but a good guess might be that it's because Eren has the ability to transform into a Titan - and the secret of how to create a Titan shifter is apparently NOT known within the walls. Whatever this Coordinate is, RBA evidently thinks/thought that he'd be in possession of some kind of ability or protection that the rest of the people within the walls haven't. Whichever it is, Eren being a Titan Shifter somehow made it strongly likely in RBA's eyes that he was the "Coordinate"...

    As for Ymir, Ymir was just a normal Titan until he ate Berick, so there's nothing unusal about her (except for the knowledge she possess), but R & B apparently wants her anyway, presumably because they don't want Mankind within the Walls to obtain any information on the Titans. Either way, if you read her conversation with R & B in chapter 46, it's clear that she's not indispensable to them (unlike Eren)...
    Last edited by DarkLordOfKichiku; September 27, 2013 at 08:42 AM.

  13. #26
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: I don't understand Reiner's and Berthold's way of doing things

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkLordOfKichiku View Post
    Well, it was all a rather spontaneous chain of events. Plus, I'd say that Reiner was still in Soldier Mode to some extent, so that messed up his thinking. It's something B & A has been aware of, but since Reiner's the leader, they've been going along for it. Either way, I do agree that he probably snapped, because had he been himself, he'd never have taken such a hasty decision, blowing their covers just like that and escaping without any food or water... As for Berthold, well he has said that he has no will of his own, so he went along with it even though he probably knew it was all a very bad idea...

    Edit: Plus, there's the matter of the Ape Titan. It seems to have triggered something in R & B, because they were all "We can go home now!" the morning after it appeared, so they - or Reiner, at least - probably just got a bit over-eager 9_9 . Add some sleep deprivation to all that and...
    it does seem that eren holds som significance all in all. what it is should be revealed in time. only certainty is that eren's appearance delayed theri plans..... actaully i think they were, in fact, ordered to delay the attack. from who is yet to be seen. eren became a priority, more important than destroying the walls. why is the major question.
    it seems that the ape titan is totally unrelated matter to eren, if still a priority. the titans he lead into the attack were odd, moviing at night and seemingly made from humans. they were told to locate it. perhaps the entire reason the wall was destroyed was to somehow garner the itnerest of the ape titan far as we know.

    ---------- Post added at 09:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:39 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Coa View Post
    Eren is not important?

    The sole reason why Wall Rose still exist is because Eren sealed the hole in the wall. Furthermore, when they saw it was him they decided not to break through another gate with armored titan.

    While Eren is weak when compared to other shifters his transformation IN FRONT OF HUMANS showed that there is more behind Titans themselves. This set event in motion and after we look at all of them we can conclude next:
    -Walls are not what they seems to be.
    -There are people inside walls who know the truth and they have some sort of secret agenda.
    -Obviously Eren is important to someone 'big' from outside of the walls when three different Titan shifters are trying to kidnap him.
    -Those same outside bosses are even prepared to kill both Reiner and Bert if they fail to get Eren to them.
    -All of Titan shifters don't give a single hint of being sorry for killing thousands of people ( trough their own actions ), meaning that there is something a lot more going in the series beside inner walls. And Eren basement is key to that.

    So even if Eren is weak somehow everything ties to him and his basement ( the only people knowing about that would be Scouting Legion members, Mikasa and Armin ).
    weak? i think the word you are looking for is actually inexperienced. eren's titan is incredibly powerful. however the other shifters have far more experience and understanding of their abilities, which gives them the edge. however, despite having superior skills, the rogue titan has managed to hold his own against all the shfiters it has fought.
    had he more experience in his titan form he would probably be an overwhelming threat.

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