Not a member? Register now!
Announcements
Like us on Facebook, follow us on Twitter! Celebrate another year with MH and read our yearbook.
Manga News: Check out this week's new manga (10/13/14 - 10/19/14).
Forum News: The nomination phase of the Community Awards 2014 is live! Visit new sections for Nisekoi and Kingdom!
Translations: Bleach 601 by BadKarma , Gintama 515 (2)
New Reply
Page 18 of 18 FirstFirst ... 8 16 17 18
Results 256 to 263 of 263

Thread: Strongest Shinigami in Bleach

  1. #256
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Country
    Nigeria
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,351
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Strongest Shinigami in Bleach

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    Even if gremy was a wildcard it does not mean he was any of the things you say. Its absurd to suggest he is not much of a fighter when he can imagine any form of combat or weapon into existence. Its absurd to suggest he is not much of a fighter when he can literally do anything and he did everything to kill kenpachi. The guy even actually managed to imagine kenpachi's reiatsu and power. It killed him but that is how much his imagination could do. If he didn't use speed or quincy arrows or other quincy techniques it is not because he couldn't, it is because he simply did not bother to imagine them. And why would he? With what he showed there is no reason for him to fight like that. Everything gremy did would have pretty much murdered anyone else but kenpachi at that point.
    Not so fast Kkck, you do not simply give a character feats he/she never proved to have, and so I'd be blunt and just say all you wrote amounted to a whole lot of nothing.

    Gremmy was a brain, probably undergo some weird biological experimental means to preserve his life, but ultimately Juha guaranteed his life with his ability, and gave Gremmy the power of fantasy.

    Unfortunately, Gremmy was too much of a nuisance, a wildcard to be around people due to his ability so he was locked up under the command of Juha or one of the higher ups, but was released during the shinigami invasion to fight Zaraki.

    As far as experience in battle goes, he has non as non has ever bothered to be around him or let him loose.

    Zaraki was his first only real fight, the only individual to have ever opposed him. He was overjoyed at some point during the fight (lmao, omg, what an impressive display ......NOT! All he had done at that point done was imagine an inaesthetics stage my little 5 year old brother could imagine at his worst at age 2-3, summon a bunch of machine guns, lava, water, and a golem hand....Yeah this Kid certainly never witnessed a battle in his life if this is the best idea he could come up with).

    So yeah, some much for "Its absurd to suggest he is not much of a fighter". To even suggest he is much of a fighter is a violation to the word. A kid who fantasies that hasn't seen a real fight in his life is being compared to a soldier, a veteran, a warrior, or a combatant who has experience on the battlefield. LMAO!!

    And the Sternritter elites states it. Gremmy is a wildcard, a "talentless" kid who just fantasies. Those are the FACTS! What you talk about is the real make-believe here. Saying "If he didn't use speed or quincy arrows or other quincy techniques it is not because he couldn't, it is because he simply did not bother to imagine them." is nonsense and doesn't hold any water considering Gremmy was announced by the elites as a talentless kid who's got nothing but his fantasies (probably as a result of being locked up since the discovery of his fantasy being dangerous). The burden of proof suggesting he actually has talent--in spite of being told otherwise--is strongly upon you.


    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    But what makes you think it would simply go that smoothly for any of them? Speedblitzing in the manga is something that usually happens only in extreme circumstances or when there is a severe power difference. In this scenario there is a severe power difference but not in suifengs favor.
    Completely Speedblitzing an opponent happens when the opponent fail to comprehend and process with their brain that they should defend themselves
    .
    The ability of Gremmy to defend himself against a speedblitz is COMPLETELY reliant on his thought...Do you know how detrimental that could be in combat?

    Everything about Gremmy sucks unless he imagines... If an opponent lunch a highspeed bullet-like projectile of unknown power at his face, he'd first have to process the fact that a projectile is approaching his face, think about the power of said projectile and then defend himself by thinking of the most appropriate defence.

    A fighter would know that thinking in that situation is beyond stupidity. A fighter would have trained himself in many forms of combat to avoid several trickery or nerve-racking scenarios like that in a split second. A fighter like Aizen is gonna reflexively get the hell out of the way as that's what fighters have trained to do.

    These are some of the fundamental truths that separate a real fighter from a child who relys solely on his Imagination


    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    I doubt she is even faster than kenpachi to be honest, the sheer amount of rieatsu kenpachi has is just that insane. And to boot, you are completely ignoring that gremy has that whole "invulnerability" thing going on for him. Nothing suifeng or anyone else can do can actually destroy gremy, gremy simply has to imagine any damage he takes away and it is effectively gone.
    I could care less what you doubt. It isn't even an ambiguous statement, you simply can't prove what you're saying with on panel feats, and as such you're wasting my time.

    If Reiatsu = Speed, why the hell was SS Kumo and SS Zaraki a bazillion times slower than Soifon? Surely as captains, she couldn't have 20x the amount of reiatsu...LOL, even Aizen only had about twice the reiatsu of an average captain.

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    Gremy is talentless only if he imagines himself to be talentless. Like when he imagined he was dying and almost did. The guy was able to imagine kenpachi's raw power.... It killed him but imagining the speed of lesser warriors is not even a feat for him. If he can imagine kenpachi's power then imagining himself as fast is a breeze.
    Irrelevant to the topic.

    Gremmy remains talentless against fast opponents, subsequently rendering his ability to make use of his fantasies (meaning the "invulnerability" or any other fragment of his imagination surfacing) to be of any use useless as his cerebral cortex wouldn't be fast enough to process the image of his inevitable decapitation.

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    As for kenpachi, what does it matter? He was obviously far from his true strength and power. The only way your point has a shred of relevance is if you believe Candice would be a match to a full powered kenpachi and that kenpachi at that point was somewhere in the vicinity of his full power. Otherwise it would be like saying that nnoitra's fraccion is as strong as ichigo because of how he performed against ichigo at that point.
    You said he wasn't speedblitzed, you were wrong as he was speedblizted. Though injured, Zaraki was still mobile enough to get behind his opponent.

    Anyway, before I can respond properly in this thread, you'll need to prove a few things with on panel feats though.

    1) Prove that the Shunpo-less Zaraki is faster than one of the exemplary characters, Soifon who represents a bonafide high-speed exceptional (in every single fight she partook in).

    2) Prove Gremmy has talent (that isn't his imagination) even though he displayed the exact opposite, and was stated to be the exact oppose of talented by the elites.

    3) Prove the Goddess of flash in the SS arc that out-speeded Byakuya (who was fast) but was completely speedblitzed by Soifon is reflexively slower than Gremmy and physically slower than Gremmy. Otherwise you admit SS Soifon would speedblitz Gremmy in a fight (let alone recent Soifon who had master shunko).

    Prove those 3 things with FACTS. Not your interpretation of a fact, not conjecture, not ambiguity...no no no...just straight up, unadulterated and on panel pages outright displaying the FACTS and I'll just concede and never bother with this topic again.

    But for now, I'd stop bothering myself discussing the worst fight I've seen in fiction for a long while anyway (Almost as BS as Rukia's absolute zero nonsense with As Nodt that I still facepalm to till this day).

  2. #257
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    wherever cookies can't get to me...(as if such a place existed...)
    Country
    Galactic Empire
    Posts
    19,025
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Strongest Shinigami in Bleach

    Quote Originally Posted by Kay3795 View Post
    Not so fast Kkck, you do not simply give a character feats he/she never proved to have, and so I'd be blunt and just say all you wrote amounted to a whole lot of nothing.

    Gremmy was a brain, probably undergo some weird biological experimental means to preserve his life, but ultimately Juha guaranteed his life with his ability, and gave Gremmy the power of fantasy.

    Unfortunately, Gremmy was too much of a nuisance, a wildcard to be around people due to his ability so he was locked up under the command of Juha or one of the higher ups, but was released during the shinigami invasion to fight Zaraki.

    As far as experience in battle goes, he has non as non has ever bothered to be around him or let him loose.

    Zaraki was his first only real fight, the only individual to have ever opposed him. He was overjoyed at some point during the fight (lmao, omg, what an impressive display ......NOT! All he had done at that point done was imagine an inaesthetics stage my little 5 year old brother could imagine at his worst at age 2-3, summon a bunch of machine guns, lava, water, and a golem hand....Yeah this Kid certainly never witnessed a battle in his life if this is the best idea he could come up with).

    So yeah, some much for "Its absurd to suggest he is not much of a fighter". To even suggest he is much of a fighter is a violation to the word. A kid who fantasies that hasn't seen a real fight in his life is being compared to a soldier, a veteran, a warrior, or a combatant who has experience on the battlefield. LMAO!!

    And the Sternritter elites states it. Gremmy is a wildcard, a "talentless" kid who just fantasies. Those are the FACTS! What you talk about is the real make-believe here. Saying "If he didn't use speed or quincy arrows or other quincy techniques it is not because he couldn't, it is because he simply did not bother to imagine them." is nonsense and doesn't hold any water considering Gremmy was announced by the elites as a talentless kid who's got nothing but his fantasies (probably as a result of being locked up since the discovery of his fantasy being dangerous). The burden of proof suggesting he actually has talent--in spite of being told otherwise--[U]is strongly upon you.
    How gremy was alive and his status as a brain to the whole thing is irrelevant. His imagination power is extremely real and its effects are verified in the manga. The stern riter feared him and their fear was justified when gremy threw a meteor at SS. Its true he said the other sternriter didn't bother confronting him but that is not quite the same as saying he has no battle experience. And even if he didn't have battle experience, what difference does it make to him being a warrior or not? He fought kenpachi head on and without hesitation and realistically speaking he had won the fight until he went and tried to imagine his power. Kenpachi had virtually no strength to keep going at that point and safe for that gremy still had his invulnerability thing going on.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kay3795 View Post
    Completely Speedblitzing an opponent happens when the opponent fail to comprehend and process with their brain that they should defend themselves
    .
    The ability of Gremmy to defend himself against a speedblitz is COMPLETELY reliant on his thought...Do you know how detrimental that could be in combat?

    Everything about Gremmy sucks unless he imagines... If an opponent lunch a highspeed bullet-like projectile of unknown power at his face, he'd first have to process the fact that a projectile is approaching his face, think about the power of said projectile and then defend himself by thinking of the most appropriate defence.

    A fighter would know that thinking in that situation is beyond stupidity. A fighter would have trained himself in many forms of combat to avoid several trickery or nerve-racking scenarios like that in a split second. A fighter like Aizen is gonna reflexively get the hell out of the way as that's what fighters have trained to do.

    These are some of the fundamental truths that separate a real fighter from a child who relys solely on his Imagination
    Not enough for gremy to give a damn. All gremy has to do to remain alive is imagine himself alive, which he did against kenpachi. Unless a potential enemy is so fast that just imagining it kills him there is no reason for him to care about speed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kay3795 View Post
    I could care less what you doubt. It isn't even an ambiguous statement, you simply can't prove what you're saying with on panel feats, and as such you're wasting my time.

    If Reiatsu = Speed, why the hell was SS Kumo and SS Zaraki a bazillion times slower than Soifon? Surely as captains, she couldn't have 20x the amount of reiatsu...LOL, even Aizen only had about twice the reiatsu of an average captain.
    Well, but you can't prove suifen or yoruichi can do what you claim. There isn't even a good comparison in the manga that is relevant to gremy in that regard.

    Also, how many times have we seen speed and reiatsu being linked? For ichigo an increase in reiatsu always means an increase in speed. For the vizards its the same, wearing their masks also increases their physical capacities. Obviously reiatsu is not everything to speed, I didn't actually go to that extreme. Skill and overall physique matter to the issue. In kenpachi's case he was already someone capable of fighting with people capable of moving at the speeds captains can move. He never had trouble keeping up with a single enemy which is reasonably impressive if we consider he fought ichigo, byakuya, tousen, komamura and nnoitora. The only time when speed was an issue for kenpachi was when he fought unohana who was basically able to walk in and kill him easily however he got to the point where he not only kept up with her but surpassed her. Suifeng being faster than current kenpachi would basically imply she would be able to easily speedblitz unohana, byakuya, nnoitora and a few other captains which does not make a shred of sense. Kenpachi should be plenty capable of doing to suifeng what unohana did to him thousands of times during their fight.



    Quote Originally Posted by Kay3795 View Post
    You said he wasn't speedblitzed, you were wrong as he was speedblizted. Though injured, Zaraki was still mobile enough to get behind his opponent.

    Anyway, before I can respond properly in this thread, you'll need to prove a few things with on panel feats though.

    1) Prove that the Shunpo-less Zaraki is faster than one of the exemplary characters, Soifon who represents a bonafide high-speed exceptional (in every single fight she partook in).

    2) Prove Gremmy has talent (that isn't his imagination) even though he displayed the exact opposite, and was stated to be the exact oppose of talented by the elites.

    3) Prove the Goddess of flash in the SS arc that out-speeded Byakuya (who was fast) but was completely speedblitzed by Soifon is reflexively slower than Gremmy and physically slower than Gremmy. Otherwise you admit SS Soifon would speedblitz Gremmy in a fight (let alone recent Soifon who had master shunko).

    Prove those 3 things with FACTS. Not your interpretation of a fact, not conjecture, not ambiguity...no no no...just straight up, unadulterated and on panel pages outright displaying the FACTS and I'll just concede and never bother with this topic again.

    But for now, I'd stop bothering myself discussing the worst fight I've seen in fiction for a long while anyway (Almost as BS as Rukia's absolute zero nonsense with As Nodt that I still facepalm to till this day).
    1.- I wrote about that a bit earlier. Also, you can't actually prove suifeng is that fast either.
    2.- Why? My point is that with his imagination he can have any talent he wants and he is in fact invulnerable to damage. Gremy with his imagination can't be killed by others as far as we saw. His body is not real to begin with. And even then, imagining himself to be fast is a far lesser feat than most of the stuff he pulled.
    3.- Even if there was something to your point about gremy being for some reason vulnerable to speedy characters, gremy does not have to be even as far as them to survive. Gremy does not need to even be as fast as them to survive, he just needs to kinda perceive them coming which would give him a nice margin. but then, even if gremy was vulnerable to speed you can't prove anyone is that fast either.

  3. #258
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Greece
    Country
    Greece
    Age
    25
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    92
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Strongest Shinigami in Bleach

    Kay you are making so many assumptions and taking so many things for granted that it hurts my brain.

    Gremmy talentless? Slow? Weak? No-combat experience? His first ever fight? Not a fighter?

    So me the panels one after the other that says these things, actually don't bother because there aren't any.

    Also please enlighten me why would Gremmy with his completely overpowered ability need to be anything. He wants speed? He could imagine be fast. He wants talent? He can imagine having talent. He wants combat experience? He can imagine having combat experience. You don't know anything about him in detail and yet you assume you understood everything based on 2-3 panels that spoke about how MONSTROUS Gremmy is. It was painfully obvious that these Sternritters were very jealous of Gremmy because they had to work very hard to acquire their powers while Gremmy simply imagined everything he need. He was SO powerful he had to remain locked.

    Also you think that these powers he used during combat were something a 5 year old would imagine. But seriously he threw a small country sized meteorite at someone to kill him. That's the definition of damn overkill, if not for Zaraki being even more broken as a character, nobody would survive the blast. He imagined nuclear bombs, he imagined lava, water to suffocate someone, thousands of tons of debri to bury someone, freaking outer-space. He knew what kills people all too well. Everything he used was a hazard to like 99,99% of the population.

    OBVIOUSLY Gremmy had his limits regarding his power, otherwise he would be omnipotent. The more "cataclysmic" and powerful objects (and even dimensions) he creates the harder he needs to focus and the more he has to take his time. But him being invurnerable to damage, WHILE being capable of copying himself as much as he wants, WHILE having instant damage negation in the extremely rare chance someone can cut him.. makes up for all this "concentration" drawbacks. Unless someone can cut him so hard and so fast time after time he is literally unkillable. The only way Gremmy could die... was to be killed by his own power. And that's what happened. Zaraki forced him to go beyond his power-limit and that costed him his life.

  4. #259
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Country
    Turkmenistan
    Age
    23
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    304
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Strongest Shinigami in Bleach

    When he says Gremmy isn't a warrior or fighter he is correct. Gremmy isn't really any of those things considering physically he's weak, doesn't posses a real body and his powers are so great and Haxx his fighting style doesn't warrant that he has to move much. But Gremmy isn't a fighter does this change the fact he's The Strongest Sternritter like he said No...Gremmy is definitely Top 3 Ssternritter With Ishida and Haschwald.

    The Other Sternritters envy him of his ability seeing as how it makes him one of the most powerful but Gremmy himself is just a mighty strong Brain not a warrior.

    Kenpachi repeatedly Ursuping this power with his own and Kubo stupid self doesn't even make him take off his eyepatch show juss how strong Kenpachi has become and exactly how dangerous and fearsome Gremmy's abilities can be.

    Anybody else fight Gremmy would die pretty fast from his powers.

  5. #260
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member KungPaoChicken's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    In the Milky Way Galaxy
    Country
    The Wall
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    734
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Strongest Shinigami in Bleach

    Gremmy IMO, is definitly the strongest Sternritter. Even comparing him to Ishida and Hach, i think so, even without the evidence. I mean this guy brought his own demise without thinking of a way to contain his own power, which killed him. His imagination could possibly wipe out any Sternritter by sending them to space and bla, or turning their insides into cookies... When he summoned the meteor, even Hach was taking precautions to protect Bach if things to unnecessarily bad. But for Shinigami its tough. We can say either between 1000 years ago, Yamamoto, current Ichigo or Final Getsuga Ichigo, or the fat bearded guy from the Royal Palace. Me personally, I think its final Ichigo just because hes the coolest looking character i've seen in the series.


  6. #261
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member MBVC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    The Eternal Winter Palace
    Country
    Bouvet Island
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    835
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Strongest Shinigami in Bleach

    Currently, Ichibei is the strongest shinigami because he names names. In order to put a name to a zan, he must understand its full potential so not only Yamamoto's zan got its name from him but that giant zan in the form of the flaming bird too. The only being stronger than him is the one whose zan is unnameable, right now there is none so far. I believe Ichigo will reach this stage in the final fight in which only he knows the real name because he is the zan himself even Ichibei fails to understand its fullest power, kinda similar to the way Renji will never see the hyper-plane where the transcendental Aizen + Ichigo reached in that battle.

    Even gods could not be absolutely certain whether they existed at the most fundamental level of reality or were themselves simulated.

  7. Like 1 Member(s) likes this post
  8. #262
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member narusasuke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Pot of Gold
    Country
    Nigeria
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    105
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Strongest Shinigami in Bleach

    Quote Originally Posted by MBVC View Post
    Currently, Ichibei is the strongest shinigami because he names names. In order to put a name to a zan, he must understand its full potential so not only Yamamoto's zan got its name from him but that giant zan in the form of the flaming bird too. The only being stronger than him is the one whose zan is unnameable, right now there is none so far. I believe Ichigo will reach this stage in the final fight in which only he knows the real name because he is the zan himself even Ichibei fails to understand its fullest power, kinda similar to the way Renji will never see the hyper-plane where the transcendental Aizen + Ichigo reached in that battle.
    Its weird tho, is ichibel older than yama ji?. If not, ywach said yama was the monsters of monsters (or something like that). Supposedly the power of zans come from the shinigami due to soul imprinting blah blah (Nimiaya explained that). So maybe there was already this sort of prevalent power before zans were created and named. Also even if not, I think ichibel said he knows the names once the asauchi gets to a shinigami. I'm not entirely sure he names them himself. But my memory is shaky on this so....
    The Greatest Tag Team!

  9. #263
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member jimtors's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Country
    Philippines
    Posts
    307
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Strongest Shinigami in Bleach

    So Namaiya or Yama? or is it too early to even talk about this? Strongest shinigami yet? Aizen is still among the choices also.. can't forget him.

    ---------- Post added at 11:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:58 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by narusasuke View Post
    Its weird tho, is ichibel older than yama ji?. If not, ywach said yama was the monsters of monsters (or something like that). Supposedly the power of zans come from the shinigami due to soul imprinting blah blah (Nimiaya explained that). So maybe there was already this sort of prevalent power before zans were created and named. Also even if not, I think ichibel said he knows the names once the asauchi gets to a shinigami. I'm not entirely sure he names them himself. But my memory is shaky on this so....
    Shinigamis train to learn their Zan names not that ichibei comes down yearly or every decade to give them the names of their zan. It's just that when he looks at them he knows their names. LIke his eyes can see everything's real name. But shinigamis train by themselves first until they learn their zan name having bond with it and being able to call it out in a fight.

New Reply
Page 18 of 18 FirstFirst ... 8 16 17 18

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts