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Translations: Bleach 600 (2)
Kenpachi has 3 fundamental areas with "stages", each that can be further increased:
-Spirit Pressure: 1-3
The first stage is having both restrictions. The second stage is reached upon removing his eye patch. The final stage is reached upon removing his "shackles".
The first stage is the default boring sword. The second stage is obviously Shikai. The final stage is obviously Bankai. He has yet to reach the 2nd and 3rd stages.
The first stage is being carefree. The second and final stage is his "survival mode", which only occurs when he is near death. "Survival mode" was first exhibited during his fight with Espada #5, seen again fighting his fake in the Zanpakuto Arc (anime filler), and occurs other times that I don't care to remember right now.
During his fight with Ichigo, he had only his second stage of spirit pressure, his base Zanpakuto, and his base instinct. While Ichigo wasn't even close to his reaching his potential. In the end fight was truly a tie, although Zenpachi accredits Ichigo as the victor.
Also TLDR any previous convo you had with the person you are replying to, I'm only commenting on what you said in the quote.
Last edited by TisForTat; October 13, 2013 at 09:42 PM.
Zenpachi still has the most potential, or one of the most potential out of any shinigami though.
Apply what to Ichigo? Holding back? I haven't seen Ichigo hold back at all. He's always had new powerups come to him in nick of time for some reason, which would probably make him stronger than Kenpachi. Of course, I haven't seen any reason (or remember any reason) to believe Ichigo could beat Kenpachi right now. Same with vice versa.
Ichigo has the most potential. Toshiro Hitsugaya and Zenpachi Zaraki have the second most potential.
Ichigo simply can only become stronger regardless of how strong he already is. It is somewhat poor plot design in my opinion, but unfortunately that is the case. Even when for example he was clearly killed off by Ulquiorra, he apparently comes back to life and has Dragonball Z tier power then roflstomps.
Toshiro is still incredibly young and basically steamrolled to Captain position. Even his Vice-Captain and another Vice-Captain whom he knew personally when he was a tiny brat were all fairly older and already Shinigami, got left in the dust (though the second Vice-Captain Momo Hinamori is understandable to surpass considering how she is essentially cannon fodder).
Kenpachi still has quite a few skills to learn which he basically skipped claiming Captain position.
Ichigo doesn't hold back except when it comes to not wanting to hurt a friend or when it comes to pride/fear (he'll choose not to use Bankai or Hollowification at certain plot points). Kenpachi always holds back. He almost never goes all out, as I stated there are stages in 3 areas of which he can if so choose to hold back. The area, being instinct, he always holds back until his life is truly in danger and doesn't even get a choice to hold back for his Zan because he doesn't know its name yet.
Regardless why even mention holding back to me? I agreed with that, unless you mean the other person.
Last edited by TisForTat; October 13, 2013 at 09:41 PM.
last paragraph was directed at the person above you. In any case, I agree with everything you said. I don't mind Ichigo being the strongest, no matter how weird I find it, but I think Kenpachi is easily stronger and possibly the strongest shinigami.
If the late Yamamoto is mentioned on this list, then I would like to add one more: Gin!!!
He was both smart and powerful enough to finish off Kenpachi who doesn't like dodging swords. Since Gin was strong enough to make a hole through Aizen special body so I don't see how Kenpachi is any different.
Last edited by MBVC; October 15, 2013 at 04:35 PM.
If Kenpachi tanks Gin's Bankai as Hogyoku-Aizen did, he might also survive the initial damage, but poison will disintegrate him with no Hogyoku to heal him back. Given Kenpachi's approach to fights, it's almost a safe assumption to say that's what would happen.
Of course, that doesn't automatically mean he is stronger than Kenpachi. Gin has a power that would allow him to duel and come out on top against an opponent stronger himself in actuality. However, I still don't rank that many of people ahead of him even when it comes to a power classification.
Due to some special reason, Kubo never gave Gin having hollow power, was he too much for everyone after attaining full resurreccion similar to Tosen?
I think it's just because Gin didn't want to become a hybrid like Tousen. He wanted to stay normal Shinigami.
Also I wouldn't overrate Gin too much. Of course his Bankai was deadly, but his basic skills weren't much better than Hitsugaya's and his Shikai was one of the weakest among Captains...
At the same time I seriously doubt Gin's Bankai is as great as most of his fans claim. It's fast and if it pierces you you are doomed, but at the same time there are tons of people who can evade it. And Gin isn't a tank, so if he gets two or more hits he is doomed.
We have only seen it in action against Ichigo, and he dodged it. I don't think there are "tons" of people who can do the same. At least, there is nothing that suggests so. Ichigo has always been one of the fastest characters in Bleach since he acquired Bankai.
Also, Gin's Bankai is one of the two guaranteed kill abilities in Bleach, along with Soifon's Shikai. That alone makes it as great as I can make it to be. Sure, if the enemy can dodge his Bankai and can outrun the blade's retraction speed and hit Gin in the process, he's done, although I don't see how that can be done with ease.
Well, there are at least the likes of Yama, Aizen, Yoruichi, Soi Fong, Isshin, Kirinji and the leader of Royal Guards who are the ones who seem to be quite capable of avoiding Gin's Bankai. Thus including Ichigo there are at least 8 fighters who have sufficient speed to do so. It's quite a considerable number. Also most feats of Gin are against depressed Ichigo who was afraid of his own power and couldn't control it propperly to the point that Gin mentioned that during SS Arc his blade was shrper.
Well, as I mentioned above there are quite some people who should be able to dodge and attack Gin, while he retracts his Zan and all of the people mentioned above seem to have strength if not to one-shot Gin, but at least be able to make him go down and then be able to kill him with the second strike.
Also, Gin was never shown being good in actual Shinigami Arts. His only asset is his Bankai. Sure it is good, but if you have speed to dodge it, then Gin would eventually loose to you.
Well, I would definitely not call 8 people a ton, though. Besides, can Aizen really dodge it? By speed, I mean. Of course, by illusions, he can. Regardless, those are only a select few and an elite of the elites list if you ask me. Only Soifon would survive thanks to her speed only, while all others are all ranked very high or right at the top in the overall strength list, anyway.
Agreed that Ichigo fight doesn't tell a lot. In fact, I don't even think he showed off a lot in that fight. He was just toying around with Ichigo, merely killing time. Ichigo would never survive that fight with his then-current mental state, had Gin was trying to kill him right there.
Not being a master of Shinigami arts is merely an assumption, though. It's prrety much like saying Ukitake is trash, because obviously he hasn't shown anything. I don't think he has them mastered to Captain-Commander or Aizen level, but that isn't a very telling line to set the bar at.
It's one thing to dodge Gin's bankai at long or mid range, but who can dodge it at close range, with no prior knowledge of it's speed?
We know it can retract within seconds if not less and can extend with the same speed, faster if Gin uses that stance of his (which i dont remember). Like Hakuiten said, we can only think of the Elites dodging it, that says a lot about Gin IMO.
As for Gin i can count 3 characters that can survive his bankai
Aizen-because of hogyoku
Mayuri-his jelly thingy
After Aizen and Komamura, Gin is one of the most underestimate characters in bleach
Komamura, tbh I can understand why he is underestimated, I mean his Bankai is a double edged sword and a huge target. IMO his Shikai>Bankai when it comes to usefulness. We may see a lot more of him but I believe how people rate him is justified.