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Thread: What the heck is WRONG with Gotei 13?

  1. #1
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Firebird0ne's Avatar
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    What the heck is WRONG with Gotei 13?

    I probably don't have to say much to explain why the question. We've all seen it, right?

    1. Thirteen groups that wear numbers and take orders from the same CC, but each division seems to stick to its own and look down on other divisions until all hell breaks loose.

    2. The research department is full of freaks who conduct questionable experiments and when they DO make something useful that could save lives, they don't share the information (as in Mayuri's 'sun suit' and Nanao's special kido that she claimed was not high level, but Hashwalth admitted would have given the captains a fighting chance!)

    3. The fourth takes abuse form EVERYONE, but they're the ones everyone screams for when they have a boo-boo (read 'a gaping hole in their bodies.')

    4. The eleventh doesn't listen to anyone and captain and vice captain are often lost and can't find their way back while searching for the ultimate fight.

    No wonder the quincies want to just squash them. Sometimes these guys just make no sense! So, let's share your favorite Gotei 13 nonsense!

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member KungPaoChicken's Avatar
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    Re: What the heck is WRONG with Gotei 13?

    Haha they may seem all separated and bla. But you know they all love each other. Not in Aizens and the blind dude's case though. But i think the quincies were just tired of living in the shadows that they wanted to see some light. Either way, this mass murder could be settled in more peaceful ways...

  3. #3
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: What the heck is WRONG with Gotei 13?

    I think a big part of the issue might be the contradiction between how shinigami grow stronger and what a military organization is supposed to be like. Shinigami at large grown stronger through their relationship with their zampakuto. Shinigami relationships appear to be somewhat unique to each shinigami considering each shinigami and zampakuto has its own personality and quirks. The only part about growing stronger that seems to be common to most shinigami is the academy however even that kinda becomes irrelevant when faced with the fact that the academy so far only appears to give you the basic tools to start you up as a shinigami. No one leaves the academy a powerful shinigami, that comes decades after being even accepted into the gotei 13. So basically the academy aims to make random souls into proper shinigami neophytes who need to still learn virtually everything shinigami have to learn. Now, a military organization is not supposed to be about individuality, its supposed to be about duty, disciple and doing without question what you are told. At large you fail as a military organization when your soldiers don't do as told or begin to question stuff because soldiers are by nature subservient and obedient.

    There is another thing. Military structures in bleach are distinctly different from the real deal. In real life a single soldier is not in itself that big a difference. He is a cog and can be replaced with another cog at any time. There can be thousands and as units they will be pretty much the same (not considering real life rambos or units made of real life rambos). They are all basically equally important. The organization does not revolve around any one soldier, its just the people giving orders and those taking them. Winning battles is about strategy, efficiency and tactics. In bleachverse things are notoriously different. Military organizations revolve around a handful of individuals who are at large immensely more powerful than the entire units they command. Basically a single captain is more powerful than every other shinigami in their division and by quite a bit at that. Winning battles is not strategy or tactics, its about individual shinigami defeating the few exceptional people in the other army. Legions and legions of foot soldiers could go up against the equivalent to captain class shinigami and they would not dent the guy or even tire him.

    So how does this work? You need the few exceptional guys capable of defeating legions of ordinary soldiers but to get these you need to give them whatever room you can give them so that they can grow. Its conflictive with what a military organization is supposed to be like because growing stronger is about individuality and for every shinigami it will be a mostly unique process even if at the core there are many similarities.

    To be fair though, I would argue shinigami are actually ahead of other military organizations in bleach when it comes to working together. Originally yamamoto was the one keeping the shinigami in check. No one shinigami could ever hold a candle to him. At least initially he was the one that kept shinigami in check via a standardized flaming foot up their asses. However yamamoto died and shunsui took over. Shunsui might be a pretty good leader for the gotei 13 however when it comes to power he is massively lacking, at least compared to genryusai. Odds are unohana and kenpachi are significantly more powerful than him and he wouldn't even have comfortable victories against any one other captain. Basically shunsui has no way of implementing an alternative to flaming foot up everyone's ass since he is simply not strong enough to do that. However, have the shinigami gone rogue? Did kenpachi murder everything once yamamoto died? Did unohana became the bloodlusting criminal she was back in the day? Did mayuri start rapemurdering everything he could get his fingers on? No... Shunsui was able to walk into a room full of fighting captains and the lot of them damned listen to him when he told them to shut up. He told unohana to go die in the deepest darkest dampest most miserable pit in SS where assholes like aizen are sent to be forgotten and she went there without a second of hesitation. No, she went there gladly. Would shunsui have managed this back in the day when the gotei 13 was founded and was made up by bloodthirsty thugs? Of course not...

    In turn we have vandenreich and the espada. The espada were actually kept in check by aizen. It was the knowledge that aizen could foderize the lot of them that kept them in check. Vandenreich is even worst. Juhabach modeled them after the original divisions. If it were not for juhabach they would murder each other for the opportunity to be kings as we just saw. Bambietta killed a dude she just had sex with, bazzb was about to fight halswald for no reason, uryu has to be on his toes because now all of vandenreich is keeping an eye on him and just might as well turn on him. In a properly functioning military organization if uryu was named king that would be the end of it. The gotei 13 are not doing so bad in this department at least, they seem to be more civil than their counterparts so far.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member NoOneInParticular's Avatar
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    Re: What the heck is WRONG with Gotei 13?

    Another thing, it seems pretty silly of them not to have been keeping an eye on Las Noches. There was one Captain-class and dozens of 3rd seat and VC-level Arrancar living there. Not enough to beat the G13, but enough to make a big fat mess if they felt like it. If they'd had someone watching them, they'd have known the minute the Wandenreich started their antics, and they could have got some handy intel on the WR's invasion strategies.

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    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner
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    Re: What the heck is WRONG with Gotei 13?

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebird0ne View Post
    I probably don't have to say much to explain why the question. We've all seen it, right?

    1. Thirteen groups that wear numbers and take orders from the same CC, but each division seems to stick to its own and look down on other divisions until all hell breaks loose.

    2. The research department is full of freaks who conduct questionable experiments and when they DO make something useful that could save lives, they don't share the information (as in Mayuri's 'sun suit' and Nanao's special kido that she claimed was not high level, but Hashwalth admitted would have given the captains a fighting chance!)

    3. The fourth takes abuse form EVERYONE, but they're the ones everyone screams for when they have a boo-boo (read 'a gaping hole in their bodies.')

    4. The eleventh doesn't listen to anyone and captain and vice captain are often lost and can't find their way back while searching for the ultimate fight.

    No wonder the quincies want to just squash them. Sometimes these guys just make no sense! So, let's share your favorite Gotei 13 nonsense!
    1. Most of them get along very well actually. Only the 11th and 12th divisions are the ugly ducklings for the most part.

    2. No disagreement there, although Urahara and his Hiyori who are former members of 12th squad are "legit".

    3. I can assure you they don't push around the captain, Unohana.

    4. The 11th squad simply doesn't give a sh*t other than looking down upon people that use Kido. Their philosophy is basically "You looked at me funny, lets fight!" and "F*ck it, yolo!".

    Kenpachi gets lost generally because his ability to detect spirit pressure is terrible, so he relies on Yachiru. The problem is Yachiru is a troll so they rarely get where they need to.

  8. #6
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Lee.J.Baxter's Avatar
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    Re: What the heck is WRONG with Gotei 13?

    IMO, we'll find later on that the Shinigami are just as bad as the Quincies, which will justify the 2 races wiping each other out completely by the final few chapters. I personally think that Juhabach and the Soul King are playing a cruel game of chess with each other, possibly along with something we haven't seen that rules over all of the Hollows. In the end, Ichigo will fight against these 3 kings, and Bleach will close with only Humans in existence (when Ichigo defeats them he will lose all of his powers)...

    ...Just a wild theory really...
    Predictions
    • Just as Quincies are evolved beings born from Humans, Shinigami are evolved beings born from Hollows.
    • Once Yhwach dies, Ichigo's Quincy powers will disappear and his soul will become unstable, causing the onset of Soul Suicide.
    • Yhwach isn't going to be the final antagonist.

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    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member zimbardo's Avatar
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    Re: What the heck is WRONG with Gotei 13?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee.J.Baxter View Post
    In the end, Ichigo will fight against these 3 kings, and Bleach will close with only Humans in existence (when Ichigo defeats them he will lose all of his powers)...

    ...Just a wild theory really...
    I wonder what will happen to the afterlife in that situation. Bleach has made it quite clear that the Shinigami are there to guide, and purify, the souls of the dead so that they can pass on. If the shinigami are no more, then these souls will have nowhere else to go. Also, even if the king of the hollows (if there is one) will die, then that won't stop more hollows being created from the souls that are left to wander in the world. And again, what about the souls in soul society? or the hollows in hercumondo (sp?)?
    Will these just cease to exist?
    Infinite RAGE!

  10. #8
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Lee.J.Baxter's Avatar
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    Re: What the heck is WRONG with Gotei 13?

    Quote Originally Posted by zimbardo View Post
    I wonder what will happen to the afterlife in that situation. Bleach has made it quite clear that the Shinigami are there to guide, and purify, the souls of the dead so that they can pass on. If the shinigami are no more, then these souls will have nowhere else to go. Also, even if the king of the hollows (if there is one) will die, then that won't stop more hollows being created from the souls that are left to wander in the world. And again, what about the souls in soul society? or the hollows in hercumondo (sp?)?
    Will these just cease to exist?
    It could be that all Hollows are connected somehow, and the conversion of Pluses into Hollows relies on this "Hollow King"; perhaps slaying the Hollow King will result in Pluses no longer degrading (although, naturally, they will still become lonely .etc.).

    There are a few things that could happen IMO once Shinigami, Quincies and possibly Hollows have been wiped out...

    The first is if Bleach has a sad ending; once the Shinigami, Quincies and Hollows die, Humans simply become Pluses and remain that way forever. In other words, after the first 3 races are wiped out, the fourth race eventually follow suit and the world reverts to nothing.

    The second is that Humans and Pluses undergo a different life cycle that doesn't involve the other 3 races. What this is, I don't know. Perhaps instead of turning into Hollows, Pluses will eventually die and automatically be recycled without the need for any external influence.

    The final possibility, IMO, is that history repeats itself; in other words, the progenitors of Shinigami, Quincies and Hollows are reborn from ordinary Humans. My current theory on this is that a particular Human dies and becomes a Plus with a Yin and Yang symbol on his/her chest. The Plus then splits into three beings. The first being is the Hollow progenitor, formed from the Plus minus the Yin/Yang symbol, which forms a Plus with a hole in its chest. The second being is formed from the Yin, and becomes the Shinigami progenitor. The third being is formed from the Yang, and becomes the Quincy progenitor. It would be pretty interesting is this particular Plus is Ichigo when he dies.
    Last edited by Lee.J.Baxter; October 15, 2013 at 04:32 AM.
    Predictions
    • Just as Quincies are evolved beings born from Humans, Shinigami are evolved beings born from Hollows.
    • Once Yhwach dies, Ichigo's Quincy powers will disappear and his soul will become unstable, causing the onset of Soul Suicide.
    • Yhwach isn't going to be the final antagonist.

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: What the heck is WRONG with Gotei 13?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee.J.Baxter View Post
    possibly along with something we haven't seen that rules over all of the Hollows. In the end, Ichigo will fight against these 3 kings, and Bleach will close with only Humans in existence (when Ichigo defeats them he will lose all of his powers)...

    ...Just a wild theory really...
    I doubt there is any sort of King of Hollows, cause first one of the Espada (number 2) claimed himself to be that even though he clearly wasn't anything more then arrogant, and two I doubt a king would let Aizen run around with the hollows like he did, and then have the quincy come in and start killing them off and taking prisoners.

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