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Thread: Hokage Itachi?

  1. #61
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
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    Re: Hokage Itachi?

    Quote Originally Posted by badluckartist
    Why wouldn't Shisui himself have used Koto to just 'influence the Uchiha into settling'? Especially if he had the Will of Fire like Kagami and Itachi? The answer is that Koto probably couldn't just stop the coup on its own. There was no one guy behind everything, like Madara. Fugaku acted as leader of the coup, but it's pretty apparent that the vast majority of adult Uchiha were in on it.
    Actually, Itachi and Shisui's plan was originally to go use Kotoamatsukami to force his dad to cancel the coup. Danzou intervened and took one of Shisui's eyes to prevent it, because he wanted the coup to go down so he'd have an excuse to kill off all the Uchiha. Shisui then gave his other eye to Itachi to have protect the other eye. Or maybe so he could use Koto and carry out their initial plan. I forget.

  2. #62
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Hokage Itachi?

    Quote Originally Posted by KiSwordsman View Post
    Here's the thing about that in one word... Nagato. The argument that Obito cannot be trusted, has been made before. The only time that we know of that he lied, it was made an obvious lie before it even came out of his mouth due to the fact that Jiraiya had already questioned the natural disaster bit before he died.
    But how much of it was a lie? A lot of what he said were true, but a lot were also lies, or Kishi not having had a concrete plan in mind.

    Quote Quote:
    The manga showed otherwise so-and-so amount of chapters ago. The manga also showed that Naruto can only use the Rasengan with two hands. Later however, it was shown that he needed one hand and a clone. See where I'm getting at? The manga says that Tobirama started things so-and-so amount of chapters after everything that you mentioned. So that's what we go by. Regardless of how "extreme Danzo seemed to be."
    The manga showed that Naruto had two ways to make rasengan, but he opted to go with the clone.

    I'm not sure if we should just go by with what's recent, but what we have seen and whether that can be contradicted. Tobirama may have started the whole bias against Uchiha thing, but we have seen the Uchiha be treated well, and nothing has contradicted that. Even in Sasuke's flashback, the two Konoha hated Itachi for killing the Uchiha.



    Quote Quote:
    And again, that's based on an assumption alone. One selfless act like I said before, does not make a character. Tobirama used it enough to be renowned for it. And it's another assumption in and of itself that he used enemies alone. This is what I'm talking about. Even though you started the whole Tobirama is so much better than Danzo argument, (the comparison between them, was not my point at all by the way) you're basing that argument on pure assumptions with one single instant of Tobirama being selfless. When an entirely different argument can be made about his acts toward the Uchiha, or Edo-Tensei itself.
    I'm not sure if his acts towards the Uchiha or Edo Tensei can be attributed to selfishness, unless his treatment of the Uchiha or creation of Edo Tensei were solely for his own benefit. Given the support that Hashirama had from the Uchiha, I doubt Tobirama would have lost such support, especially if he treated the Uchiha equally and with respect.

    While we have seen one selfless act from Tobirama, it's still one more than Danzou.

    Quote Quote:
    My whole point in that regard, was that Danzo emulated Tobirama. In doing so Tobirama's beliefs toward the Uchiha mental state could have been passed down to him. Which would mean that the "crazy Uchiha" argument is valid, even if it is personally believed by people that it is garbage.
    I disagree with your point, for the most part. I think Danzou might have emulated Tobirama, but he could have planned to have the Uchiha killed for his own gain.

    It wouldn't mean the "crazy Uchiha" argument is valid, not when we have only one out of at least 5 proof that Uchiha goes crazy. Has Itachi ever gone crazy?



    Quote Quote:
    My interpretation was that the whole reason to making Itachi Hokage would be to stop the coup. Which would still mean that he would have been a double agent. Him being the leader afterwords would deter the coup and keep the Uchiha as a clan alive. Given that, it would make more sense to make him Hokage at that time and not beforehand.
    But wouldn't making Itachi a hokage stop the coup, given the Uchiha would think Itachi wields tremendous power in decision making? The whole point of the coup was because they lost their political equality, which would have either been fixed or prevented if Itachi became the hokage. He'd be too young at age of 12 though, and I'm sure the Uchiha would probably think something is up if Itachi became a hokage over his father, who's older and more experienced.

    I also doubt the Uchiha would have been kept alive, mainly because of Danzou and his quest for power. Possibly same with Tobi as well, although Itachi could have stopped Tobi.

    Quote Quote:
    From what I can remember, his father had an inkling. Making him Hokage would have made it blatantly obvious, but at the same time not given the fact that he was the prodigy of the Uchiha clan and the son of the clan leader.



    I'd say Naruto is not that much of an idiot, but I don't know anymore. Given the fact that Kakashi reasoned with him, I'd say it's highly unlikely for that to occur.
    Given how some thought Kakashi was too young to become a hokage at age 31, I have serious doubt Itachi would have become a hokage. I also think he was too young to become a hokage as well, though he was probably a good choice around age 21 had he not defected. Hell, I think Itachi would've been a better hokage than Naruto at age 12 than Naruto at age 17.

    I don't think Naruto was an idiot either at the time, but emotion does tend to rule him and make him impulsive. It likely would have without Kakashi, as well.

  3. #63
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity KiSwordsman's Avatar
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    Re: Hokage Itachi?

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    But how much of it was a lie? A lot of what he said were true, but a lot were also lies, or Kishi not having had a concrete plan in mind.
    There's no reason to believe that he lied about that given what we know. If you don't want to trust him that's fine, but you've not trusted him before. And it turns out he was telling the truth. But if you don't want to believe him for the sake of not believing him because it's him, go ahead. This is what we know and it's backed up by current evidence.


    Quote Quote:
    The manga showed that Naruto had two ways to make rasengan, but he opted to go with the clone.

    I'm not sure if we should just go by with what's recent, but what we have seen and whether that can be contradicted. Tobirama may have started the whole bias against Uchiha thing, but we have seen the Uchiha be treated well, and nothing has contradicted that. Even in Sasuke's flashback, the two Konoha hated Itachi for killing the Uchiha.
    And when was that shown to the audience? If I recall correctly, it wasn't until the whole thing with Kabuto Happened. Before then we had no reason to believe that he could use the method that he ended up going with.

    Yes, but that's no reason to claim that it outright didn't happen when it is stated that it did. Before, you claimed that it didn't start with Tobirama.


    Quote Quote:
    I'm not sure if his acts towards the Uchiha or Edo Tensei can be attributed to selfishness, unless his treatment of the Uchiha or creation of Edo Tensei were solely for his own benefit. Given the support that Hashirama had from the Uchiha, I doubt Tobirama would have lost such support, especially if he treated the Uchiha equally and with respect.

    While we have seen one selfless act from Tobirama, it's still one more than Danzou.
    I never said that it could be attributed to selfishness. However, I'm saying that one cannot use that single selfless act to try and define his character. Especially when it's the only piece of evidence one has. Given the nature of that technique and the circumstances of his treatment toward that group of people, his character is more than just a selfless leader.

    Tobirama did lose that support, or at least lost it gradually. That's what we've been told throughout these recent chapters. His ways of going about "benefiting" the Uchiha, and overall mentality on their mental state is evidence of that. At least for the former, that was practically stated. With the only "exception" being Kagami that we know of.

    You sure about that? Destroying Shisui's eyeball was a selfless act. It was an act not for himself, but for the village. It cannot be put on the same level as sacrificing one's life for another human being. However, it was still selfless.



    Quote Quote:
    I disagree with your point, for the most part. I think Danzou might have emulated Tobirama, but he could have planned to have the Uchiha killed for his own gain.

    It wouldn't mean the "crazy Uchiha" argument is valid, not when we have only one out of at least 5 proof that Uchiha goes crazy. Has Itachi ever gone crazy?
    And again, more conjecture.

    It would mean that the crazy Uchiha argument is valid from his point of view. I made a point of mentioning before that Shisui was not doing what Itachi was in the form of proving himself as a double agent. So I'm not exactly sure where you're going with the Itachi point. You're taking it from audience perspective, to us, the crazy Uchiha argument is BS. But if you make a point to emulate someone you can take in their opinions as well especially opinions toward a certain group of people. Thusly, the crazy Uchiha argument is valid in that regard.


    Quote Quote:
    But wouldn't making Itachi a hokage stop the coup, given the Uchiha would think Itachi wields tremendous power in decision making? The whole point of the coup was because they lost their political equality, which would have either been fixed or prevented if Itachi became the hokage. He'd be too young at age of 12 though, and I'm sure the Uchiha would probably think something is up if Itachi became a hokage over his father, who's older and more experienced.

    I also doubt the Uchiha would have been kept alive, mainly because of Danzou and his quest for power. Possibly same with Tobi as well, although Itachi could have stopped Tobi.
    I'm confused, how are we in disagreement? I agree that making Itachi Hokage would in fact stop the coup. However, for it to stop the coup there had to have been a coup in the first place, which they only found out about because of Itachi, which would mean that he would still have been a double agent. And we're back to the circumstances. Given the circumstances of the situation, it is entirely reasonable to believe that Itachi could have become Hokage at that age given his mentality and the overall severity of everything that was going on.

    As far as the last part goes, conjecture.

    Quote Quote:
    Given how some thought Kakashi was too young to become a hokage at age 31, I have serious doubt Itachi would have become a hokage. I also think he was too young to become a hokage as well, though he was probably a good choice around age 21 had he not defected. Hell, I think Itachi would've been a better hokage than Naruto at age 12 than Naruto at age 17.

    I don't think Naruto was an idiot either at the time, but emotion does tend to rule him and make him impulsive. It likely would have without Kakashi, as well.
    pffft,That wasn't about to stop him given the situation. He was damn sure about to become Hokage, but Tsunade faked everyone out. The situation was severe enough for people's concerns about his age to be disregarded The same could apply with Itachi. Given the fact that it could prevent world war 4. And it's not like Itachi is the typical 12-year-old.

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