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Thread: Best and most hax devil fruits?

  1. #31
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Ace4's Avatar
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    Re: Best and most hax devil fruits?

    Quote Originally Posted by 7pac View Post
    I still believe Goro Goro no mi is the strongest logia and one of the strongest fruits out there.
    I do not think kizaru moves at the speed of light like many of you believe, but if it is the case, Enel should move as fast as kizaru since lightening is light.
    One more thing it's temperature, Fire is 980 °F to 2,200 °F , Lava is 1,292 to 2,192 °F, Lightening is 53,540 °F.
    So technically speaking goro goro no mi = Pika pika no mi + magu magu no mi.
    Wow lightning is light is quite the stupidest thing I heard in a while. Lightning is electric discharge while light is pure energy. And as mentioned light is the fastest thing while lightning is much slower. About the heat thing since Kizaru is pure energy touching him would mean you get a lot of thermal energy as well but since his energy density is not defined it's not clear how hot he would be. I agree with Goro goro no mi beeing superior to the magu magu no mi but the pika pika no mi is mich stronger.

  2. #32
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Anduren's Avatar
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    Re: Best and most hax devil fruits?

    Just to set the record straight, like Ace4 said, Lightning isn't the same as light. Lightning which is made of electrical charges (usually electrons which is the lightest of all the charged particles between protons, ions etc.) has a maximum speed of about 1/10th the speed of light. And the heat that comes with lightning is only a result of the charged particles heating up and ionizing the air around it as it moves through (if it was in a vacuum there wouldn't be much to be heated by the lightning as its energy would be contained plainly in the charged particles).

    Its still true though that throughout history lightning has been associated with gods (Jupiter, Zeus, etc.) And that was pointed out in the Skypea arc; and there isn't much distinction given to the differences between light, lightning and heat since advanced study of physics and molecular structure only started more recently in history.

    Anyways, I think out of the logia abilities, whichever is the strongest will be whatever Oda says it is simply because the abilities don't strictly have to follow the laws of physics. For example, we seem to have a darkness fruit, levitation fruit(?), and a gravity fruit(?) which are basically all effects of the same thing. Same with gas fruit, smoke fruit and flame fruit to some extent.

    I don't think you can compare the heat from lightning with the heat of flame or the heat of magma though because they're due to different kinds of heat transfer (diffusion, convection, and conduction respectively)

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  4. #33
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    Re: Best and most hax devil fruits?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anduren View Post
    Anyways, I think out of the logia abilities, whichever is the strongest will be whatever Oda says it is simply because the abilities don't strictly have to follow the laws of physics. For example, we seem to have a darkness fruit, levitation fruit(?), and a gravity fruit(?) which are basically all effects of the same thing. Same with gas fruit, smoke fruit and flame fruit to some extent.
    Blackbeard can create darkness so dense that it has it's own gravitational pull. Fujitora's fruit is different, since it can manipulate gravity in a certain area. Increase it, decrease it... Well, I imagine, anyway. As for leviation, best explanation is - it magically allows stuff to fly.

    Those other examples aren't really that bad in comparison to ice/sbow logia. Snow is just tiny pieces of ice. Anything Monet was able to do, Aokiji should have been able to do as well.
    Last edited by Razh; October 11, 2013 at 04:41 PM.

  5. #34
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Anduren's Avatar
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    Re: Best and most hax devil fruits?

    Quote Originally Posted by Razh View Post
    Blackbeard can create darkness so dense that it has it's own gravitational pull. Fujitora's fruit is different, since it can manipulate gravity in a certain area. Increase it, decrease it... Well, I imagine, anyway. As for leviation, best explanation is - it magically allows stuff to fly.
    That's basically what I was trying to point out because darkness is literally the absence of light and the theme that Blackbeard uses is an aspect of gravity like a black hole where the strong pull that even light cant escape is due to the gravitational field of a large amount of dense matter. His darkness ability seems to center more on being able to suck away stuff (pull things to himself, fruit users' abilities out of them, etc.) than an actual darkness like moria's shadow fruit.

    Because of this, I originally thought when the darkness fruit was revealed that it was gravity in its entirety which turned out not to be the case (that was before Shiki's levitation was introduced). If there really was a fruit that controlled gravity in all of its aspects it would really be the most hax fruit because being able to control gravity to the extent of creating a black hole would mean you could also control time (because of special relativity effects).

    But it seems Oda created different fruits like noro noro (slowing down time), darkness (black hole/sucking away stuff), levitation (reducing gravitational effects), kilo kilo (reducing mass/weight), and now a localized gravitational type fruit so as to assign different degrees of power to different people without making any one of them too overpowered as an ability.

    Quote Originally Posted by Razh View Post
    Those other examples aren't really that bad in comparison to ice/sbow logia. Snow is just tiny pieces of ice. Anything Monet was able to do, Aokiji should have been able to do as well.
    Agree almost completely with that... If Aokiji trained his ability well enough, with some extra effort he should be able to even create a snowstorm; specially considering that half of Punk Hazard's climate (including the constant snowstorms there) were caused by Aokiji. Only difference between those two was the compactness of the ice particles.
    Last edited by Anduren; October 11, 2013 at 05:50 PM.

  6. #35
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member 7pac's Avatar
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    Re: Best and most hax devil fruits?

    Oh! I didn't know lightening didn't travel at the speed of light! :O

    But on what you said just now, it is not true light cannot escape from a black hole, It's true it can't escape but it doesn't get absorbed either, it becomes immobile for millenia, as there is an equal pull from the black hole towards it, as the pull from the light to "get away" from the black hole.

    kind like so


  7. #36
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member hoeru's Avatar
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    Re: Best and most hax devil fruits?

    Quote Originally Posted by 7pac View Post
    Oh! I didn't know lightening didn't travel at the speed of light! :O

    But on what you said just now, it is not true light cannot escape from a black hole, It's true it can't escape but it doesn't get absorbed either, it becomes immobile for millenia, as there is an equal pull from the black hole towards it, as the pull from the light to "get away" from the black hole.

    kind like so

    Uhm... No. Light has a constant speed, while a gravitational pull creates an acceleration. Light that doesn't get "swallowed" by black holes is bended, which is what creates an optical effect called "gravitation lense" (not only caused by black hole but by every massive stellar object).

    Light does not become immobile. All that may happen is, that light is bended that much by a massive object that it "orbits" that object.

  8. #37
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Anduren's Avatar
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    Re: Best and most hax devil fruits?

    Quote Originally Posted by 7pac View Post
    Oh! I didn't know lightening didn't travel at the speed of light! :O
    I don't believe it's common knowledge... at least in schools they use lightning most commonly for the example of comparing speed of light with speed of sound (seeing the flash before hearing the thunder).

    Quote Originally Posted by 7pac View Post
    But on what you said just now, it is not true light cannot escape from a black hole, It's true it can't escape but it doesn't get absorbed either, it becomes immobile for millenia, as there is an equal pull from the black hole towards it, as the pull from the light to "get away" from the black hole.
    Actually, the best example I can think of is if you were trying to swim away from a whirlpool: If you swim faster than the whirlpool draws you in, you can get away; if you swim as fast as the whirlpool draws you in, you'll be swimming in place; and if you cant swim as fast as the whirlpool draws you in, you get sucked into it. In this case, you would be comparable to the light particle (photon) and the whirlpool center would be comparable to the black hole center. The point where light particles that are just flying by minding their own business can no longer escape the black hole's gravity is called the event horizon. So it all depends how close by the black hole the light is passing by.

    Like hoeru said, if the light is passing by further away than the event horizon, it just get pulled in just a little and its path gets curved. If it passes by too close, the light particles fall in to the black hole and once something gets past the event horizon, not even light can move fast enough to get out which is where the black hole as a source of absolute darkness comes in.

    Normally, I wouldn't think so much about physics as it applies to mangas but I remember even a long time ago Oda often took breaks to research what he was going to write about so I can imagine he wouldn't take these kinds of things too lightly when he creates abilities and such.

  9. #38
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    Re: Best and most hax devil fruits?

    Woah...this thread has become a science lecture!

  10. #39
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member MBVC's Avatar
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    Re: Best and most hax devil fruits?

    ^ Still way better than pseudo-science something like rubber is absolutely indestructible so this is the main reason for some people think that Luffy can eat as many df as he wants without exploding to dead.

    I wonder how plasma fits into this, when I say plasma I think about the central core of nuclear fusion, quite different from fire, laser or electricity. In the anime I saw lots of green gas flowing around when Dragon used his power, I'm not sure whether it is kind of radioactive gas (Radon) or maybe the anime isn't reliable at all.

    I realized that I am merely a conscience programmed into a game.

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    Re: Best and most hax devil fruits?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anduren View Post
    That's basically what I was trying to point out because darkness is literally the absence of light and the theme that Blackbeard uses is an aspect of gravity like a black hole where the strong pull that even light cant escape is due to the gravitational field of a large amount of dense matter. His darkness ability seems to center more on being able to suck away stuff (pull things to himself, fruit users' abilities out of them, etc.) than an actual darkness like moria's shadow fruit.

    Because of this, I originally thought when the darkness fruit was revealed that it was gravity in its entirety which turned out not to be the case (that was before Shiki's levitation was introduced). If there really was a fruit that controlled gravity in all of its aspects it would really be the most hax fruit because being able to control gravity to the extent of creating a black hole would mean you could also control time (because of special relativity effects).

    But it seems Oda created different fruits like noro noro (slowing down time), darkness (black hole/sucking away stuff), levitation (reducing gravitational effects), kilo kilo (reducing mass/weight), and now a localized gravitational type fruit so as to assign different degrees of power to different people without making any one of them too overpowered as an ability.
    Yeah, I remember how couple of years ago I theorized that BB's fruit could be a lot more versatile than shown so far. If he was darkness and had control of it's density, there's no reason why he couldn't increase or decrease his mass and then be able to do similar stuff as Miss Valentine.
    Or he could shoot projectiles made of darkness and call them Black Comet or something. Or at least extend the darkness in the form of a projectile.

    I'm still hoping the fruit will show more powers next time Bb fights.

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  13. #41
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Anduren's Avatar
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    Re: Best and most hax devil fruits?

    Quote Originally Posted by MBVC View Post
    ^ Still way better than pseudo-science something like rubber is absolutely indestructible so this is the main reason for some people think that Luffy can eat as many df as he wants without exploding to dead.
    Rubber is indeed versatile, but hardly indestructible. Actually, almost everything has, to some degree, an elastic (stretching and returning to same size) and plastic (stretching but not returning to same size) range of deforming when stretched... Its just that Rubber is most known for its elasticity and also its ability to insulate against electricity/lightning. I just think that if the breakdown of the body when eating two devil fruits is due to a molecular breakdown or something like that, being rubber probably wont save him. Its still a mystery what kind of body Blackbeard has too which made it possible for him to hold in 2 fruits.

    Quote Originally Posted by MBVC View Post
    I wonder how plasma fits into this, when I say plasma I think about the central core of nuclear fusion, quite different from fire, laser or electricity. In the anime I saw lots of green gas flowing around when Dragon used his power, I'm not sure whether it is kind of radioactive gas (Radon) or maybe the anime isn't reliable at all.
    Having read this, I actually went back and watched that episode and sure enough, you're right... it does look like a greenish mist. I dunno if it's just a special effect they used or it has some kind of meaning. I wouldn't be surprised if it was like that as a hint to Dragon's ability and when it's actually revealed people can go back and say "so that's why it was like that at Loguetown!"

    As for plasma, its just another fluid. The only difference between plasma, gas, and liquid is the amount of energy the molecules in the fluid has. When the molecules have so much energy that they start losing electrons and becoming ionized is when a gas becomes a plasma state (if I remember right).

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    Re: Best and most hax devil fruits?

    I was thinking on the subject of Monet and Aokiji, plus the whole "aren't DF's A, B and C similar?"

    Isn't the difference between Aokiji and Monet's powers kind of that Aokiji could only form ice though? While Monet seemed more into making snow... They are similar if you looked at them scientifically I guess, but visually it seems to make more sense... Like looking at what Aokiji created, it was all proper solid Ice based, while everything Monet made seemed more Snow.

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    Re: Best and most hax devil fruits?

    Just to be certain there's no confusion, this is what snow actually is:

    Spoiler show


    Ice crystals. Shitloads of them together are what makes snow. A person whose ability is to freeze stuff and turn himself into ice should be able to form anything from ice cubes and icyicles, to ice vapor and snow. That's what makes Monet's fruit a stretch. But it's not like I don't get Oda. He can't limit himself like that, otherwise there wouldn't be more than 5-6 logias existing.

    I just hope we some day don't get to see some kind of stone or rock logia, featuring big pieces of rock, instead of tiny little rocks that Crocodile's sand logia reigns over.

  16. #44
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    Re: Best and most hax devil fruits?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anduren View Post
    Rubber is indeed versatile, but hardly indestructible. Actually, almost everything has, to some degree, an elastic (stretching and returning to same size) and plastic (stretching but not returning to same size) range of deforming when stretched... Its just that Rubber is most known for its elasticity and also its ability to insulate against electricity/lightning. I just think that if the breakdown of the body when eating two devil fruits is due to a molecular breakdown or something like that, being rubber probably wont save him. Its still a mystery what kind of body Blackbeard has too which made it possible for him to hold in 2 fruits.



    Having read this, I actually went back and watched that episode and sure enough, you're right... it does look like a greenish mist. I dunno if it's just a special effect they used or it has some kind of meaning. I wouldn't be surprised if it was like that as a hint to Dragon's ability and when it's actually revealed people can go back and say "so that's why it was like that at Loguetown!"

    As for plasma, its just another fluid. The only difference between plasma, gas, and liquid is the amount of energy the molecules in the fluid has. When the molecules have so much energy that they start losing electrons and becoming ionized is when a gas becomes a plasma state (if I remember right).


    1) Here is a toy experiment: send a time-bomb inside a black-hole, the bomb will explode after it passes the even horizon but nothing comes out all thanks to gravity, maybe BB's darkness fruit compresses the power of the other df inside his body in a sense that these 2 df aren't coexisting together, it's more like big fishes eat small fishes in term of df technically speaking hence this means BB's darkness logica has the special ability "eats" WB's quake df, so WB's quake df is "inside" BB's dark logica which is inside BB body, thus the paradox is solved and this proves dark logica is indeed unique of all type logica.


    2) Well, we could predict some information from the given one. For example, after the appearances of Aokiji and Kizaru, some of us predicted that Akainu is also a df user and his df should be logica type, some people even went further to state magma due to his "red dog" title since blue ~ ice and yellow ~ light (just a metaphor). If Dragon's df isn't wind then his df has the ability to transform every fluid types into plasmas. On the lowest left corner of page 13 in chapter 99, the lighting stopped the sword less than 1cm from the straw hat, I'm not sure how wind could control lighting to this godly accurate coordinate. Does anyone have any reasonable guess about this process?

    ---------- Post added at 07:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:20 PM ----------

    "How did even come to that conlusion its a mistery its like you see raining and you think its not a rain but more like an alien like liquid."


    I'd say it's Sulfuric acid rain! How about you? What do you think about it?

    I realized that I am merely a conscience programmed into a game.

  17. #45
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    Re: Best and most hax devil fruits?

    Quote Originally Posted by MBVC View Post
    1)
    ---------- Post added at 07:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:20 PM ----------

    "How did even come to that conlusion its a mistery its like you see raining and you think its not a rain but more like an alien like liquid."


    I'd say it's Sulfuric acid rain! How about you? What do you think about it?
    The sulfuric acid rain doesnt fit and doesnt sound logic because if he could make Acid rain everyone in the entier town and this inluding luffy and everyone would have been affected and that means wood and stuff burned away and ppl w having multple wounds. Can't you see that he could control the weather? The green effect you saw was more like a cool way to show his powers. Its nothing like acid if you would say that he is using wind or change the temperature in atmosphere thus thats a way to make winds and affect the weather in target loc it would have been made more sense.

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