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View Poll Results: Who wins?

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  • Vergo

    0 0%
  • Jozu

    13 100.00%
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Thread: Vergo VS Jozu

  1. #16
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity weixiaobao's Avatar
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    Re: Vergo VS Jozu

    Umm, also note, that Law is perfectly happy to let people beat him up without revealing his true capacity. DD didn't know about Law's true capacity, and Law isn't the type to show his trump card all of the time.

    Guess what, if Vergo were to tank Law's final cut 100 times. He failed 100 times. The only thing he should do is not stupidly tank the attack but blitz Law or do something else. Base on DD's comment, we at least can assume, Vergo can tank Law's shamble preskipped.

    ---------- Post added at 11:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:00 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by vagabond87 View Post
    Sorry but I dont see it as fights that Sabo, Ace and Luffy had but you seem to make statistic like that
    Well one fight- Jozu wins. Simple enough?
    Also I dont understand most of your post. Using name of characters would help me a bit in understanding your points.
    Yeah, you said Vergo is a Whitebeard commander. Guess what they are not the same. To said something ridiculous like that.

    I put in relevant name, you threw out Sabo, Sabo?? yeah, insert your troll face since it quite appropriate.

    ---------- Post added at 11:07 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:01 AM ----------

    If said Smoker vs Kuro, well Smoker win 100% of the time, it isn't even a debate. Did I said like 85% or 67% or whatever, that is making up statistic. The 100%, in case you obviously don't understand meant there is no way Vergo win under normal circumstances.

  2. #17
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member vagabond87's Avatar
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    Re: Vergo VS Jozu

    Quote Originally Posted by KingOfNight View Post
    Equal\ same tier\level, doesn't matter. Either way, it's unreasonable to put them in the same tier. It's a big difference when he can fight people even stronger than Vergo's captain.

    Maybe not, but it doesn't change the fact that they did fight on equal grounds. They did as well against the Admirals as the Dark King himself could. Until they were all distracted.

    Doflamingo spoke from experience, the experience of seeing Law get his ass kicked By Vergo before. It's not as though Shichibukai are on the same level, Buggy is a clear proof.
    You are assuming a lot. Like really a lot. Please elaborate.
    I am putting Vergo in same league as lets say first 4 Whitebeard commanders. Is it such a crime to put New World Marine Base Commander in similar place on "combat power scale" as ONE of top pirates from Whitebeard crew?

    Edit:
    Discussing with you two is waste of precious time. So im ok with whatever any of you will reply.. Cheers.
    Last edited by vagabond87; October 11, 2013 at 11:18 AM.

  3. #18
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member KingOfNight's Avatar
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    Re: Vergo VS Jozu

    Quote Originally Posted by vagabond87 View Post
    You are assuming a lot. Like really a lot. Please elaborate.
    I am putting Vergo in same league as lets say first 4 Whitebeard commanders. Is it such a crime to put New World Marine Base Commander in similar place on "combat power scale" as ONE of top pirates from Whitebeard crew?
    Not really "a lot."

    Yes. It's an unimaginable crime to put a Vice-Admiral with weak feats in the same place as high ranking commander in the Mightiest Pirate Crew in the World with amazing feats. Especially on "combat power scale."

    Well, might as well use that precious time to read more about this manga so that you don't go assuming absurd things.
    Last edited by KingOfNight; October 11, 2013 at 11:28 AM.

  4. #19
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity weixiaobao's Avatar
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    Re: Vergo VS Jozu

    Quote Originally Posted by vagabond87 View Post
    You are assuming a lot. Like really a lot. Please elaborate.
    I am putting Vergo in same league as lets say first 4 Whitebeard commanders. Is it such a crime to put New World Marine Base Commander in similar place on "combat power scale" as ONE of top pirates from Whitebeard crew?

    Edit:
    Discussing with you two is waste of precious time. So im ok with whatever any of you will reply.. Cheers.
    Absolutely, if you put the most veteran vice admirals that active during garp's years but isn't Garp then sure I don't see a problem but definitely not Vergo.

    I know right. Thank you for your apology for wasting my time.

    ---------- Post added at 11:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:25 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by vagabond87 View Post
    You are assuming a lot. Like really a lot. Please elaborate.
    I am putting Vergo in same league as lets say first 4 Whitebeard commanders. Is it such a crime to put New World Marine Base Commander in similar place on "combat power scale" as ONE of top pirates from Whitebeard crew?
    Hmm, Vergo's position is like Smoker's position at Logue Town. Smoker dealt with fodders coming from East Blue (actually they can be consider East Blue elites). Whereas, Vergo deal with Paradise veterans/supernovas likes but are fodders in the overall scale. As far as I am guesstimating, of all the Vice admirals, he is somewhere in the middle, stronger than the like Maynard, but weaker than the like of Onigumo and John Giant. John Giant maybe the strongest giant in the marine. Pitting Onigumo (or people that was vice admirals during the time that Akainu/Aokiji/Kizaru were vice admirals except Tsuru and not like Strawberry dude who was a rear admiral some 10 years ago) would be closer but we haven't had much feats from them.

    As far as Vergo vs Jozu go, the only strong argument is that depend on what Jozu we are talking about. If Jozu (preskipped) after he lost his one arm, then Vergo may have a chance. But after 2 years timeskipped, he may have an artificial arm or train himself to overcompensate this disability.

    Also stop being so dramatic toward me, I understand perfectly what you are saying. But it seemed that you don't understand what I am saying, I never comment on the difficulty of the fight. I am commenting on the outcome of the fight. I am not saying Jozu beat Vergo at high, low, or mid difficulty. Because I don't know, but you seemed certain on that it is high difficulty. I never argue against that but however high difficulty does imply that they are on relatively the same power level and or Vergo's ability is a good match up for Jozu (like Luffy vs Enel). I am saying Jozu at Marineford with both arms will win against Vergo about 100% of the time under normal circumstances.

    The match maybe closer, if Vergo's bamboo is make out of a mixture of wapol metal and seastone, plus if they are fighting in a small arena surrounded by water. Then sure, Vergo may have some strategy to beat Jozu and it will come down on execution.

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  6. #20
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    Re: Vergo VS Jozu

    I don't see how Vergo could win this. Jozu is on another level entirely. I can't imagine anything Vergo does would be able to break Jozu's defence, and we've already seen Jozu's overwhelming strength.

  7. #21
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Schabrak's Avatar
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    Re: Vergo VS Jozu

    One is capable to go toe-to-toe with admirals, the other is a strong subordinate of one of the strongest shichibukai, who despite all that shat his pants over the thought of getting in trouble with a Yonkou crew.

    Jozu wins, Vergo keeps adding dirt to his face.

    To even think that Vergo, who was beaten by Law and had traded some good punches with Smoker, who was smoked by Doflamingo later on, could have any chance against someone from the top 3 of a Yonkou seems like a fantasy from a twilight zone to me.
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  9. #22
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    Re: Vergo VS Jozu

    Quote Originally Posted by Schabrak View Post
    One is capable to go toe-to-toe with admirals, the other is a strong subordinate of one of the strongest shichibukai, who despite all that shat his pants over the thought of getting in trouble with a Yonkou crew.

    Jozu wins, Vergo keeps adding dirt to his face.

    To even think that Vergo, who was beaten by Law and had traded some good punches with Smoker, who was smoked by Doflamingo later on, could have any chance against someone from the top 3 of a Yonkou seems like a fantasy from a twilight zone to me.
    My main interest in creating this thread was to know what people thought about the Diamond/Armament prodigy match-up. For example to continue this discussion, how long do you thing Vergo would have lasted against Jozu? Full-on body hardening.
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  10. #23
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Schabrak's Avatar
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    Re: Vergo VS Jozu

    Longer than someone who hasn't fully mastered CoA yet obviously. :P

    A couple minutes at most, on a bad day Imo. The time they fought in PH was limited already, so those fights must have happened quiet fast, Jozu would have taken care of Vergo with a couple devastating hits probably.
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  11. #24
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    Re: Vergo VS Jozu

    Are people also counting the fact that Jozu only has ONE arm now?
    Just checking.
    I believe Jozu would beat a VA without question too though. But the loss of an arm might be a big factor.

    Quote Originally Posted by vagabond87 View Post
    I DIDNT SAID EQUAL. Learn to put more care into reading posts of others- read one more time my previous posts- I said that JOZU WOULD WIN imo but difference is not as big as you and weixiaobao wrote. Vergo is in same league as Whitebeard commanders.
    Beside being able to hold off for few moments Admiral or not getting defeated by him right away dont put nor Jozu nor Marco on same "level" as Admirals.
    .
    What I've put in bold is what seems a little off.
    They aren't equal but they're at the same level is basically what you're saying?
    Either way that's a bit off.
    One guy is someone who people debate on whether or not he is truly a tier above Sanji.
    The other guy is the man that shat on what people were calling the "The Worlds Strongest Slash".

    In case you forgot, Marco kicked Kizaru and sent him flying at the start of the war. Jozu also made Aokiji bleed when he punched him.
    I'd say that Marco/Jozu/Vista are pretty close to Admiral level.
    Marco/Jozu never had their lives in danger against the Admirals at all. They were giving them a serious fight.

    But there isn't a chance in hell I'd say Vergo is close to Admiral level.

    I agree that the gap between Jozu and Vergo isn't as big as people are saying on here, but they aren't in the same league.
    Vergo is the SUBORDINATE of Dofla. Jozu is somebody who isn't even slightly scared of Doflamingo.
    I think that's sort of evidence in itself.

  12. #25
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Schabrak's Avatar
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    Re: Vergo VS Jozu

    Quote Originally Posted by vagabond87 View Post
    As example- almost all of WB commandors trying to stop Akainu and failing in it. If Marco who was in this group would be ON LEVEL of Admiral then he would just stop Akainu. He didnt. Same as rest of commandors that was with him. They were very impressive but they were not equals of any marine Admiral.
    An enraged, bloodthirsty, moral boosted Akainu can fight differently than a Marco who just saw his dear father and brother die. -_- No? The manga and many fights of Luffy show exactly the same behaviour.

    Quote Originally Posted by vagabond87 View Post
    Admirals are Admirals- absolute top. Just Yonko seem to be a small step ahead of them in terms of power.
    Putting Vergo and Jozu in similar tier so to say is not mistake for me when we use situations/sort of manga facts that I try to explain in my last posts.
    The commander in chief and the fleet admiral are the absolute top, admirals have the third highest rank only. Just to be pedantic. :P
    Similar, but still worlds apart.+
    Last edited by goldb; October 29, 2013 at 11:08 AM.
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    Re: Vergo VS Jozu

    comparing jozu with aokiji is like comparing chinjao with luffy. They traded a few blows, chinjao is no "one hit ko" opponent - like jozu. But in my opionion they are still on a completly different levl. If anyone of the Wb commanders is on alevl with the admirals, i would say it is Marco. If they were, they could have defended the territory of their old men against Blackbeard (the same Black beard that ran away when aikanu came after him - aikanu is one admiral and he seems to be slightly stronger than aokiji - so if jozu is nearly aokiji levl and Marco nearly kuzan or aikanu levl it would have taken quite some time to conquer their territory - exept for the levl 6 prisoners BB crew was no match for ace pre timescip).

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  15. #27
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member eefrit's Avatar
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    Re: Vergo VS Jozu

    Well, Marco, Jozu, and the rest kinda just lost their Captain so, they were pretty much in disarray. Nevermind the fact that all of their territories were under attack by a number of pirates across the New World as soon as Whitebeard's death was confirmed, so their power probably dropped dramatically. If they did ever recover, it would have been to late since BB had more man-power and knowledge of their territories.

    OT: I would also go with Jozu for the same reason many have stated here. Vergo may be tough and awesome as hell, but Jozu should be on another level.

  16. #28
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    Re: Vergo VS Jozu

    Quote Originally Posted by eefrit View Post
    Well, Marco, Jozu, and the rest kinda just lost their Captain so, they were pretty much in disarray. Nevermind the fact that all of their territories were under attack by a number of pirates across the New World as soon as Whitebeard's death was confirmed, so their power probably dropped dramatically. If they did ever recover, it would have been to late since BB had more man-power and knowledge of their territories.

    OT: I would also go with Jozu for the same reason many have stated here. Vergo may be tough and awesome as hell, but Jozu should be on another level.
    i am not sure about that - exepte for marco's fight. It was shown that he was distracted and got owned. Alright. But after Wb death they all had a great motivation, protecting Luffy. WB died because he wanted to save Ace and all of his sons. Ace died because he wanted to protect Marco. If Luffy would have died the whole "rescue Ace thing" would have been for nothing. Marco stated so himself. So i think they were pretty serious about letting him escape. Aikanu whiped the floor with them. One Admiral - and they had help from Croc, Ivankov and the likes of jimbey. The only one who made it stop (and they still tried to get Luffy) was Shanks & his crew. Shanks was the one who chased BB away, like Aikanu chased BB away (after the battle). So my suggestion is that Yonkous are pretty equeal to admirals in term of fighting strength. I can see Marco or Ben Beckman fighting on a levl with admirals, but Jozu should be something like a strong VA - able to stand his ground against most enemies, but not strong enough to fight for days with an admiral (like aokiji & aikanu did). The admirals have changed so this might be different by now. Vergo is a very strong VA ( he destroyed Smoker, a VA) and i am not sure if we might see him again. I still think there is something wrong with food sticking to his face. Maybe he had a devil fruit and maybe this very df helps him to escape. Maybe i am all wrong^^ I would go with Jozu too but it's hard to say. Yeah, he blocked a strike from Mihawk. Mr 3 blocked a strike from Luffy with his candle wall back at little garden (and MR 3 wasn't even in Luffy's league, even at that time) and Zoro couldn't cut through it.......Jozu and Mihawk never really fought - the only one i saw jozu clearly fighting with was aokiji - and he was owned by him.

    I don't think that he is on a complete other levl but i do believe that jozu is stronger (it's all just speculation though)

  17. #29
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Vergo VS Jozu

    I am of the school of thought that jozu would utterly, easily and conclusively stomp vergo. jozu is arguably one of those out there capable of fighting evenly with admirals. As strong as vergo is and even perhaps being the most skilled haki user we have seen so far he was far less than impressive in the grand scheme of things. He had trouble with an injured sanji and sanji did not even properly hold his ground against doflamingo (someone also arguably capable of fighting admirals). And against doflamingo sanji was at 100% to boot, its not like he had previous injuries or anything. Vergo was without a doubt a man of skill however he never really displayed the sort of power that would compete with what we know of jozu. Heck, even the full body armor haki would not really be all to significant here. Jozu has a naturally strong body thanks to his fruit and is obviously a potent haki user.... Its just a bad matchup for vergo on all accounts.

  18. #30
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    Re: Vergo VS Jozu

    Quote Originally Posted by Wha View Post
    comparing jozu with aokiji is like comparing chinjao with luffy. They traded a few blows, chinjao is no "one hit ko" opponent - like jozu. But in my opionion they are still on a completly different levl. If anyone of the Wb commanders is on alevl with the admirals, i would say it is Marco. If they were, they could have defended the territory of their old men against Blackbeard (the same Black beard that ran away when aikanu came after him - aikanu is one admiral and he seems to be slightly stronger than aokiji - so if jozu is nearly aokiji levl and Marco nearly kuzan or aikanu levl it would have taken quite some time to conquer their territory - exept for the levl 6 prisoners BB crew was no match for ace pre timescip).
    They were having enough problems of their own with their Captain gone. Nevertheless, the Gorosai suspected that Marco and the WB Pirates are among the few who could defeat BB.

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