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Thread: Sage Mode and the Shinju

  1. #1
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member badluckartist's Avatar
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    Sage Mode and the Shinju

    Now that we know Senjutsu is a definitive weakness of the juubi's jinchuuriki, it's safe to assume that the juubi and by proxy, Shinju, are also weak to Senjutsu. This is odd, considering that Sage mode is taught by ancient, sapient animals that seem to be related to other ancient animals associated with the old ages, like the giant tortoise of the Cloud that housed the Sagely ruins and jinchuuriki training ground.

    This is made even more weird by the recent revelations of the princess Kaguya who gained the knowledge of molding chakra by eating a fruit. Despite the fact that chakra is generated... naturally... by humans, the Shinju seems to consider all chakra as belonging to it, so the reader is naturally at an impasse at who/what to even empathize with, much less what the point of all this is.

    The position Kurama takes to mold chakra is very conspicuously the same position Naruto takes to meditate for Sage mode. This has made many people believe he's molding Sage chakra, even though it's apparent he's not. Still, it's significant enough that Kishi would purposefully draw the postures identically. And then we have the juubi being defined as a 'torrent of natural energy', a line that's also sparked some heated debate.

    I've guessed a lot of things throughout Naruto, and even been right about a good few of them. But I have NO idea where this is going or what all these things will add up to. Any takers?

    /about to get ridiculous

    My best guess? The Shinju is an alien god and is weak to natural energy because it's the force of life. The whole Katsuyu was the original plane that humans settled on, before becoming crowded and inundated with war. The Shinju planted itself on Katsuyu from a fallen meteor and history followed as we know. Zetsu's claim that he "is the land" is accurate, since he is the juubi's soul incarnate and the juubi was the progenitor of the land/oceans/etc.

    The ancient animal sages are too senile to remember anything and/or it wouldn't be as mysterious as just saying 'It's a prophecy!' The Sage used the original Sage mode to batter the beast, and the sealing jutsu of his father- the leader of the then-Uzumaki clan- to seal the beast within himself. BELIEVE IT

    /ridiculous over

    If anything, I find it ominous that the tree was described by Madara as being the 'host of a god'. It sounds like there's more layers to this story that Madara simply isn't aware of.

  2. #2
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Delbi's Avatar
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    Re: Sage Mode and the Shinju

    I still fail to see where the evidence is that the Sage was an Uzumaki. So you lost me as soon as you said that.

    If anything I think we can look to Greek mythology more so for the tree than Aliens.

    The tree represents Gaia, and thus the Juubi would be a Titan, and the Biju Gods. Beyond that, it's not so much that Senjutsu is a weakness of the Juubi Jinchuriki, it's just that it is vulnerable to Senjutsu.

    The Juubi itself is vulnerable to regular attacks, so the reason why it's Jinchuriki is invulnerable to such attacks remains a mystery.
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Sage Mode and the Shinju

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    I still fail to see where the evidence is that the Sage was an Uzumaki. So you lost me as soon as you said that.

    If anything I think we can look to Greek mythology more so for the tree than Aliens.

    The tree represents Gaia, and thus the Juubi would be a Titan, and the Biju Gods. Beyond that, it's not so much that Senjutsu is a weakness of the Juubi Jinchuriki, it's just that it is vulnerable to Senjutsu.

    The Juubi itself is vulnerable to regular attacks, so the reason why it's Jinchuriki is invulnerable to such attacks remains a mystery.
    I would say that you have chosen to refuse any possibility that the sage was uzumaki. Thus, you get offended every time someone coins the possibility. Just making it the way it is, and I have nothing against it.

    Concerning the vulnerability of the Juubi Jichuriki to SM, it is really weird. I think that either the interpretation of Juubi's chakra as natural energy is a misunderstanding, or Kishi messed up the logic. Why an all Natural energy beast would be vulnerable to natural energy. It does not add up, especially, since Rinnegan was capable of absorbing SM FRS.

    On topic, I think Madara does not know everything about the Shinju. Specifically, Madara did not talk about the father of Rikudo Sennin. I believe that Rikudo's father had a play in the game as well. Moreover, I am positive that someone else has an account of the story in a view that is opposite to Madara's. My guess is towards the Uzumaki, the toads, and Minato.

  4. #4
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Delbi's Avatar
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    Re: Sage Mode and the Shinju

    Quote Originally Posted by so6pww View Post
    I would say that you have chosen to refuse any possibility that the sage was uzumaki. Thus, you get offended every time someone coins the possibility. Just making it the way it is, and I have nothing against it.
    [/B]
    One someone offers some sort of tangible evidence that the Sage could have been an Uzumaki, I'll listen. Until then it's an absurd and baseless claim.
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member shafagh's Avatar
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    Re: Sage Mode and the Shinju

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    One someone offers some sort of tangible evidence that the Sage could have been an Uzumaki, I'll listen. Until then it's an absurd and baseless claim.
    this is some fans' desire so kishi will do another fan service ... is it enough !?
    خداحافظ

  6. #6
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Sage Mode and the Shinju

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    One someone offers some sort of tangible evidence that the Sage could have been an Uzumaki, I'll listen. Until then it's an absurd and baseless claim.
    You want someone to give you evidence before you can believe. However, you claim that their analysis is absurd and baseless without giving evidence that the sage was not Uzumaki. This confims what I said above - that is you are simply hurt because you don't want the sage to be Uzumaki.

    Besides, the idea that the sage is Uzumaki or onnected to Uzumaki does not come from baseless conclusion like yours. Rather, we have tangible connection in the manga. For example, the only person who has ever used Rinnegan to an amazing extent was Uzumaki Nagato. Even Obito Uchiha with Senju half and Juubi power did not reach Nagato's power level as related to Rinnegan. Madara Uchiha, though he is impressive, has not shown more than Obito. Moreover, Uzumaki Naruto is the only person after Rikudo to get the consent of all the tailed beasts at the same time. Next, the Uzumaki clan is known to be the clan of the preferred hosts for bijus. Based on all these fact, I think it is absurd or basless, if not dumb, to think that Rikudo being is an absurd and baseless idea.

    FYI: The only two people connected to the prophecy given to Jiraya concerning the fate of the world were Uzumaki. Before them, the only person who had the fate of the world in his hands was Rikudo Sennin.

  7. #7
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member xaither's Avatar
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    Re: Sage Mode and the Shinju

    if the sage was both an senju and an uchiha then the sage has uzumaki's blood since uzumaki are related to senju. think people.

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    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Prince Sasuke's Avatar
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    Re: Sage Mode and the Shinju

    Quote Originally Posted by xaither View Post
    if the sage was both an senju and an uchiha then the sage has uzumaki's blood since uzumaki are related to senju. think people.
    That's pretty much illogical thinkin...

  9. #9
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Sage Mode and the Shinju

    The sage is not an uzumaki, that does not make sense. The sage precedes the uzumaki, he was their origin, their ancestor. We know his last name by now, its hagoromo or something. The sage is as much of an uzumaki as he is an uchiha, senju or whoever else descends from him. The only conceivable way in which the sage is an uzumaki is that he is one retroactively or that we ignore all the other clans that descend from him.

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  11. #10
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member xaither's Avatar
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    Re: Sage Mode and the Shinju

    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Sasuke View Post
    That's pretty much illogical thinkin...
    Illogical ? how so, explain. I must miss something here.

    The sage is an Uchiha and a senju Correct ?

    The senju are also related the Uzumaki? correct .

    I failed to see how the sage is not an uzumaki also, since his descendants are blood related. Please explain to me how that is illogical. It would make perfect sense, the sage is master of seal the first person to become a jinchuuriki, and here you have the uzumaki who's main focus and power are seals.

    Let me do this again to see if I miss something.

    the sage had 2 sons, and there descendants became senju and uchiha. these two sons came from the sage himself, they are his offspring. now one of the offspring clan are blood related to another clan the uzumaki, blood related meaning they share the same blood. now if they share the same blood it means that they have the same ancestors, and who would be that ancestor ? The sage himself.

    ---------- Post added at 09:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:01 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    The sage is not an uzumaki, that does not make sense. The sage precedes the uzumaki, he was their origin, their ancestor. We know his last name by now, its hagoromo or something. The sage is as much of an uzumaki as he is an uchiha, senju or whoever else descends from him. The only conceivable way in which the sage is an uzumaki is that he is one retroactively or that we ignore all the other clans that descend from him.
    your saying that the sage is neither an uchiha, senju, or uzumaki, that does not make sense, since all of those clan came from the sage offspring, who came from the sage himself.

    and if the sage was not an uchiha or senju, then why does it take an uchiha and senju dna mixture to obtain the rinnegan
    Last edited by xaither; October 17, 2013 at 08:56 PM.

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