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Thread: Ranking of Captains - No Bankai

  1. #46
    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Impossibility's Avatar
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    Re: Ranking of Captains - No Bankai

    Quote Originally Posted by Sanadan View Post
    I don't remember but isn't this hard to determine? What if Aizen didn't go full out because he knew WW would take care of Yama? This is like saying "if it wasn't for Kira, Gin would have been killed by Hinamori".
    It isn't hard to determine. He was caught, and WW was necessary. The entire purpose of WW was to limit Yama because Aizen feared he wasn't capable of taking him on himself, and he was right. Not even Aizen attacks someone with the thought of getting caught, and even after he was caught he attempted to convince Yama that he was an illusion. Aizen simply wasn't a match for Yama, despite the overwhelming advantage KS would seemingly give him. And Kira's intervention on behalf of Gin is completely different, Hinamori initiated a surprise attack against Gin, but even so she wasn't an actual threat to him, he didn't consider her as such. There is absolutely nothing to support the argument that Shinigami Aizen was superior to Yama, the manga explicitly shows otherwise.


    Quote Originally Posted by vanyar View Post
    Well he has shown himself to be incredibly fast, mastery with Kido, analyzing and negating attacks and his intellect is unsurpassed. If anyone could fare well against Shunsui's Shikai, due to his intellect, it would be him. In regards to Unohana, his ability to cast such high level Bakudo in quick succession would be a good counter for her overwhelming strength, not only that but he can substitute himself with a portable Gigai fast enough to even fool Aizen.
    He's fast, he's shown impressive kido, and he's intelligent. All true. However, is his speed greater than those he's being compared to? Unohana has barely used Shunpo, but Shunsui has feats in speed. His kido is impressive, but can you suggest any kido that he could use in the midst of battle that would be sufficient enough to be a threat to either Shunsui or Unohana? And Unohana's mastery of kido, specifically of kaido, is fearsome. Intelligence can only do so much if one lacks the actual tools necessary to face a challenge, and its not as though the senior captains lack intelligence or battle experience. And what Bakudo would be of use? Simply saying he is going to utilise bakudo when, as far as I know, he hasn't shown any that would do anything to stop Unohana or Shunsui is pointless. He has lots of tricks that could keep him alive, but I don't see Urahara's feats matching up to either Shunsui or Unohana. They have the tools and means available to them to defeat Urahara.

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  3. #47
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Ranking of Captains - No Bankai

    Quote Originally Posted by Impossibility View Post
    He's fast, he's shown impressive kido, and he's intelligent. All true. However, is his speed greater than those he's being compared to? Unohana has barely used Shunpo, but Shunsui has feats in speed. His kido is impressive, but can you suggest any kido that he could use in the midst of battle that would be sufficient enough to be a threat to either Shunsui or Unohana? And Unohana's mastery of kido, specifically of kaido, is fearsome. Intelligence can only do so much if one lacks the actual tools necessary to face a challenge, and its not as though the senior captains lack intelligence or battle experience. And what Bakudo would be of use? Simply saying he is going to utilise bakudo when, as far as I know, he hasn't shown any that would do anything to stop Unohana or Shunsui is pointless. He has lots of tricks that could keep him alive, but I don't see Urahara's feats matching up to either Shunsui or Unohana. They have the tools and means available to them to defeat Urahara.
    Well as far as binding goes he can use Bakudō #61. Rikujōkōrō, Bakudō #63. Sajō Sabaku and Bakudō #79. Kuyō Shibari. He can also use Crimson Princess of Binding. Attack wise he can use Hadō #91. Senjū Kōten Taihō or his Shikai techniques. Now for the record, I am not saying that this would beat Unohana or Shunsui, but he certainly has a lot of high level abilities at his disposal to make this questionable, imo.

  4. #48
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    Re: Ranking of Captains - No Bankai

    Quote Originally Posted by vanyar View Post
    Well as far as binding goes he can use Bakudō #61. Rikujōkōrō, Bakudō #63. Sajō Sabaku and Bakudō #79. Kuyō Shibari. He can also use Crimson Princess of Binding. Attack wise he can use Hadō #91. Senjū Kōten Taihō or his Shikai techniques. Now for the record, I am not saying that this would beat Unohana or Shunsui, but he certainly has a lot of high level abilities at his disposal to make this questionable, imo.
    These are avoidable, and to be honest I doubt that any one of these would be able to stop either Unohana or Shunsui, even if he were able to succeed. And the Hado, like the Bakudo, are avoidable. Urahara chanted to utilise Senju Koten Taiho. And I don't see any of his shikai techniques overpowering either Shunsui or Unohana, an unreleased Ulquiorra slapped away Benihime's attack. He has high-level abilities, but so do those he's being compared to. Shunsui is going to be extremely difficult to pin down, and anything less than a fatal blow is going to allow Unohana to keep coming back for more. And they both have greater raw attacking power than he does. I doubt anyone doubts that Unohana could bring Urahara down in a blow or two, and against Shunsui it probably wouldn't be much different. Urahara's Kido and his shikai versatility are two of his strongest assets in battle. However, I can't imagine what he's shown to be a winner for him. Urahara's most impressive display to date came against an opponent that simply didn't care to stop him.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Notak's Avatar
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    Re: Ranking of Captains - No Bankai

    Going by the Gotei 13 (not the former captains) I'd have to say Unohana, before her it was Yamamoto until he died I guess.

    Now it's pretty much Unohana and Zaraki I think that dominate without bankais.

    Shunsui may also be up there, he's very strategic and experienced.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Ranking of Captains - No Bankai

    Quote Originally Posted by Impossibility View Post
    These are avoidable, and to be honest I doubt that any one of these would be able to stop either Unohana or Shunsui, even if he were able to succeed. And the Hado, like the Bakudo, are avoidable. Urahara chanted to utilise Senju Koten Taiho. And I don't see any of his shikai techniques overpowering either Shunsui or Unohana, an unreleased Ulquiorra slapped away Benihime's attack. He has high-level abilities, but so do those he's being compared to. Shunsui is going to be extremely difficult to pin down, and anything less than a fatal blow is going to allow Unohana to keep coming back for more. And they both have greater raw attacking power than he does. I doubt anyone doubts that Unohana could bring Urahara down in a blow or two, and against Shunsui it probably wouldn't be much different. Urahara's Kido and his shikai versatility are two of his strongest assets in battle. However, I can't imagine what he's shown to be a winner for him. Urahara's most impressive display to date came against an opponent that simply didn't care to stop him.
    They are definitely avoidable, but as we can see from the fight with Aizen, Kisuke always used a decoy rather than attacking head on. He managed to deceive Aizen several times, whether using a Portable Gigai or Kido, I think it's within the realms of possibility that he could manage to deceive Unohana and Shunsui. If that happens, he only needs an opening, he has shown the ability to cast 3 high level Binding Kido in quick succession. Then who knows, could a level 91 Hado do the job?

  7. #51
    MangaHelper 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Impossibility's Avatar
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    Re: Ranking of Captains - No Bankai

    Quote Originally Posted by vanyar View Post
    They are definitely avoidable, but as we can see from the fight with Aizen, Kisuke always used a decoy rather than attacking head on. He managed to deceive Aizen several times, whether using a Portable Gigai or Kido, I think it's within the realms of possibility that he could manage to deceive Unohana and Shunsui. If that happens, he only needs an opening, he has shown the ability to cast 3 high level Binding Kido in quick succession. Then who knows, could a level 91 Hado do the job?
    He managed to deceive Aizen, but that was mainly because Aizen was being an arrogant fool; the power got to his head. He admits as much, Urahara points it out. It's a lot easier to fool someone that is simply too enamoured by their own power to notice anything else. Aizen outright stated that he didn't see any need to dodge anything because he thought his newfound power put him beyond such a need. If Aizen had bothered to be less of an arrogant villain for two seconds, Urahara would've been dead quite quickly. Aizen took blow after blow for no other reason than he could.

  8. #52
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    Re: Ranking of Captains - No Bankai

    Quote Originally Posted by Impossibility View Post
    He managed to deceive Aizen, but that was mainly because Aizen was being an arrogant fool; the power got to his head. He admits as much, Urahara points it out. It's a lot easier to fool someone that is simply too enamoured by their own power to notice anything else. Aizen outright stated that he didn't see any need to dodge anything because he thought his newfound power put him beyond such a need. If Aizen had bothered to be less of an arrogant villain for two seconds, Urahara would've been dead quite quickly. Aizen took blow after blow for no other reason than he could.
    I agree. The fight would of been very different had Aizen not had Hogyoku. However, Kisuke still managed to catch him by surprise several times. He was surprised by the portable Gigai. He had no idea about the bracelets even less so about the Kido hidden within the lvl 91 Hado. Kisuke was always a step ahead of him in combat. Don't get me wrong Aizen was being careless, but he still observed when Kisuke was planning something, yet he was completely ignorant of several of Urahara's decoys and techniques.

  9. #53
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    Re: Ranking of Captains - No Bankai

    Quote Originally Posted by vanyar View Post
    I agree. The fight would of been very different had Aizen not had Hogyoku. However, Kisuke still managed to catch him by surprise several times. He was surprised by the portable Gigai. He had no idea about the bracelets even less so about the Kido hidden within the lvl 91 Hado. Kisuke was always a step ahead of him in combat. Don't get me wrong Aizen was being careless, but he still observed when Kisuke was planning something, yet he was completely ignorant of several of Urahara's decoys and techniques.
    Aizen admonishes himself about the gigai, pointing out that he was basically too arrogant to even think that Urahara would consider such a thing. Urahara points out that Aizen never would've come into contact twice to allow him to place seals on his wrists as a Shinigami without thinking about it. And I give credit to Urahara for hiding the kido within another, but the point remains that if Aizen was being less of an arrogant fool, he wouldn't have allowed any of Urahara's kido anywhere near him. His observations were non-existent. Aizen was basically on auto-pilot and Urahara was taking advantage of it. These are impressive feats, but pretty irrelevant in most battles; most opponents are going to focus more on bringing Urahara down rather than taking his attacks just so that they can mock him.

  10. #54
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member BaddAzzKenpachi74's Avatar
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    Re: Ranking of Captains - No Bankai

    Quote Originally Posted by Notak View Post
    Going by the Gotei 13 (not the former captains) I'd have to say Unohana, before her it was Yamamoto until he died I guess.

    Now it's pretty much Unohana and Zaraki I think that dominate without bankais.

    Shunsui may also be up there, he's very strategic and experienced.
    Unohana is dead, Her entire body faded away so there is no coming back from that, so I guess you would have to change that to Zaraki

    Live for battle, enjoy every minute, death is the price u pay for a good battle, live to kill, no fear.
    by Kenpachi Zaraki
    . ("Discuss This" http://discussthis.freeforums.org/index.php

  11. #55
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member metalia's Avatar
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    Re: Ranking of Captains - No Bankai

    1. Aizen -> Kyoka suigetsu is OP, and Aizen is OP too so, yeah, he's also my first.
    2. Yama -> another OP, ultra powerful shikai, ultra powerful strenght, ultra powerfull speed, kido master, etc.
    3. Kisuke -> his intelligence is in a whole different level, he can probably outsmart every single enemy, and that means winning against anyone that's not OP.
    4. Isshin -> Just Aizen stating that Ishiin has pushed him to his shinigami limit, is enough to rank him this high.
    5. Unohana -> Her healing skills mixed with her unmatched power, make her pretty invincible to me. According databooks, she's also the captain with better stats apart from aizen and yama.
    6. Shunsui -> Even though he hasen't been showing a lot, i think it's pretty much a "fact" among bleach characters that shunsui is one of the strongest shinigami, and the current strongest.
    7. Yoruichi -> Maybe I'm acting like a fan here seeing that some ppl are ranking her much lower. But I mean, she doesn't even need a zanpaktoh to fight. How badass is that? She defeated 50 onmitsukido members in a second, defeated yammy with a couple of punches (lol), also destroyed a building of karakura town with one punch. She has the shunko which is, along with Ishiin's getsuga tensho, the only thing that could visibly damage chrysalis Aizen. She's not only the best Hakuda user but also the best Shunpo user, being unmatched in 2 of the 4 shinigami arts (hakuda and hoho). Also her creation of shunko, could mean that her kido skills are pretty high too.
    8. Shinji -> I'm assuming he's not a Vizard. His shikai es pretty strong, and he seemed like one of the strongest shinigami of the former generation. Both smart and powerful. Actually he reminds me of shunsui a lot, just younger.
    9. Soifon -> If she didn't have suzumebachi, I would rank her lower, but I can't figure out how someone slower than her (which is pretty much everyone except yoruichi), can survive her speed/suzumebachi combo. No surprise she's the chief of the assassination squad.
    10. Kenpachi -> He's like a little unohana.
    11. Byakuya -> Probably the most versatile shinigami, he's pretty strong in every possible way, but does not exceed on anything either. His shikai is quite impressive, but not enough to rank him higher.
    12. Gin -> He's regarded as a genious in soul society. He effortlessly killed a 3rd officer being just a child, and was cunning enough to almost give Aizen a fatal blow.
    13. Kensei/Rose/Love -> I don't really know where to put these people, but I assume they are random-lvl captains not near of Shinji.
    14. Toshiro -> He's very good for his age, his a genious also. But still he lacks the power to make his strategy effective. As Aizen said: "You are still very young, if you see a chance to win, you charge without a second thought. It is your greatest weakness."
    15. Mayuri -> I put him here because he's very unpredictable. I think he's overall weak, but he's very intelligent and suddenly can use a weird device or something to turn the battle.
    Last edited by metalia; October 22, 2013 at 12:06 PM.

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