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Translations: Gintama 506 (2)
So I think that some people expected that I might start this thread
Sanji gets round 2 with Vergo- on top of Dressrosa Palace- something like where Luffy and Crocodile had round 2 back in Alabasta.
Also Sanji knows more about Vergos CoA mastery/ overall combat power and is more serious/going all out from the start- like Smoker and Law knew perfectly of what Vergo is capable of yet for Sanji it was clearly suprise.
No limitation when it comes to Vergo and his bamboo usage. Dead serious fight.
I would go for Sanji but with extreme difficulty. Very close fight.
PS.I expect this thread to get bigger after Sanji fights and wins with one of Doflamingos top seats- Trebol(as I expect him to be Sanjis main enemy in this arc).
Last edited by vagabond87; October 19, 2013 at 10:49 AM.
I think Sanji could trade blows with Vergo pretty well, but would eventually lose b/c Vergo is just too much of a tank. If like you say though, a dead serious fight. Like if there's something at stake, like he needs to get a key to save Nico Robin kinda thing, then I think it's possible for Sanji to win SOMEHOW (b/c I really don't see how). In a situation like that my brain leans toward Vergo, but my heart gives Sanji a chance...We haven't seen Sanji's full potential, but I also think we didn't see Vergo's full potential so it's hard to judge.
I do think that Sanji in not damaged body, protecting someone would be a good match even for such a tank as Vergo.
After DJ to the face - Vergo was flying, after DJ to chest - Vergo was sent flying as well. Even though Vergo seemed to be fine we all know that those attacks were not even close to Sanjis most dangerous attacks like Hell Memories(or Grill Shot shown when he fought Kraken alongside Zoro and Luffy- I think that it was second strongest attack shown till today beside Hell Memories). Also Sanji didnt used any of those bigger attack during fight on Punk Hazard - we can only assume that if Doflamingo avoided this attack
It would also be a danger for Vergo. Same with Spectre attack
Sanji in his short fight with Doflamingo was far more serious than in his fight with Vergo. No underestimating enemy like here - even though he had damaged body and noticed that Vergo durable over 9000 - Sanji just stood there, had his hands in pockets, talked instead of CoO dodge and tanked that kick like an idiot.
So he payed with his fibula cracked and he would most probably lost that fight back then and get killed by Vergo.
For me Sanji before getting "the cracking" was better than Vergo in CQC and would make Vergo pull out his bamboo if fight continued without cracking.
How Sanji would fair against CoA bamboo? Hard to say- it depends on his CoO and as you said we didnt seen much from Sanji. Trebol also uses kind of staff-like weapon so we might see how Sanji would handle it.
Last edited by vagabond87; October 19, 2013 at 03:02 PM.
Sanji actually was doing damn well in that fight before his leg was fractured. He kept up with Vergo and managed to get two hits off on him without any trouble. As vagabond87 mentioned, the moment Sanji decided to attempt to tank Vergo's kick, is when it went downhill. I think it's because both parties underestimated each other. Sanji was matching Vergo hit for hit before he hit him into the wall. I'm sure at this point, Vergo realized that Sanji wasn't going to go down easily and he got serious and kicked Sanji with more power than he used before. Sanji, thinking that he was using the same strength as before, blocked with as much strength as he though necessary and was caught off-guard by the amount of power Vergo put behind the blow and had to adjust appropriately although the damage was done at that point.
Had both been serious and fighting with their all, Sanji would have a better chance of coming out on top as Vergo just didn't seem to be able to keep up with Sanji's speed. And if Sanji used his stronger series of moves(Well Cooked series, Hell's Memories etc) instead of his regular Diable Jiambe enhanced moves, then it's quite possible he would have put Vergo down for the count.
I still bet on Vergo, Sanji really didn't impress me after the timeskip, I dunno if it is Oda's fault or just me, but he doesn't give that vibe Luffy or Zoro do give, that they're not showing everything, especially Zoro
While Vergo really impressed me, his tanking abilities are really something, it's like he's a cyborg, and Doflamingo's trust on him shows that he's really strong no doubt about it...
If Sanji would be winning back then we would say that New World is meh and that 2 years of training gave Strawhats too much of a boost if even 3rd strawhat in therms of strength can win no problem with New World Base Commander Vice Admiral Vergo(long name is long).
Sanji is in league with Vice Admirals and giving him few more years in New World he can be one of Top Dogs able to stop even Admiral in his tracks or likes of people like Doflamingo.
Beside that vibe that you get from Luffy and Zoro - and you dont get it from Sanji - its because set of enemies that they fought. Sanji gets worse- strongest, Zoro gets almost nothing or gets presumably strong enemies. Luffy gets some medium/strong/tricky enemies and shows off the most moves.
Just as reminder of Sanjis strenght- imo he is set to fight Trebol that is one of top seats in Doflamingos crew - Trebol and for example Diamante that is champion of Colosseum are most probably at very close level of combat power/ ability. So. Diamante most probably will be shown/hyped to be strongest enemy in Colosseum- someone who would most probably win with anybody in arena beside Luffy.
Going with that logic Sanji is most probably stronger than all of people that fight in tournament beside Luffy and Diamante(who might be Sanjis equal or somebody closer to Luffy than we all expect).
As for Vergo- he was clearly inferior when it comes to speed- Sanji send him flying twice in very short time, for me he was also a bit behind Sanji when it comes to CQC (without bamboo as we have seen) but at same time Vergos CoA was by all means better than Sanjis and it would be most problematic thing for Sanji if they would be fighting again. For some time I thought that Vergo has unconfirmed Metal paramecia DF fruit - he was like Terminator - most durable enemy that Strawhats have fought I think. Before time skip Vergo would wreck entire Strawhat crew- same or even worse as Kuma did.
Sanji WOULD loose round one on Punk Hazard if fight would have continued back on PH but I do think that he would be able to pull of victory in round 2 that I described with healthy body and knowledge about his enemy CoA skills.
Sanjis thinner leg bone cracking was shown to build up some suspense and feel of struggle even in first arc in New World.
As for showing moves- Sanji was really serious for first time while stopping Doflamingo. But fight was cut short and we didnt seen much. His spectre move seems to me to be on par with Luffys CoA gattling/ jet gattling attack. We have to wait until ending of arc to say how much Oda was holding back top Strawhats in their fights.
Maybe try thinking a bit in direction that I explained things.
^Okay that's a bit much. Bartholomeo? No. He's cool but I don't see him touching the monster trio. Even Sanji. Chinjao however is different. I feel none of the trio would fare any different that is until Luffy unlocked his cone head. I don't think anyone besides an admiral could truly hurt him in that form.
He does not have to take Chinjaos attacks head on(pun intended). Chinjao that Luffy fought would be really tough yet possible to beat for Sanji, Chinjao with his head back to old shape after fight with Luffy- might have been a problem even for Luffy I think.
A litte update:
Beside being cocky here as I already said Sanji could have simply went to "Hell Memories" mode and try to finish off Vergo when latter was "in the iron wall so to say".
As I am rereading whole OP since time skip now its clear for me that Sanji was clearly better at CQC thats main reason why he underestimated Vergo and overestimated durability of own legs.
But now I am also thinking that if Oda will make Sanji defeat one of seats it will be even more of a hint towards how close Sanji was to Vergo in reality. Vergo was Doflamingos right hand man - kind of like Zoro - and I expect seats like Pica, Diamante and Trebol to be roughly on same level only small step behind Vergo and like 2 steps behind Doflamingo.
So if Sanji defeats Trebol for example he can be considered to be Vergos equall or at least super-close.
If he wouldnt be just so cocky and finished Vergo when he was struck into that iron wall and if he would not blocked direct Vergo kick I wouldnt have to start this thread I think
If Sanji can dodge this kick to head from that close
Then in rematch he would just dodge this kick witout much effort
Even taking away fact that Sanji had damaged body(maybe it makes using haki harder or maybe that crack was effect of body/muscles being weakened simply wounded and that kick made it worse). Also just looking as detail such as hands of Sanji and Vergo- it kind of shows that as durable as Sanjis legs are Vergos CoA haki was probably monstrous - this attack didnt make Sanji fly but it cracked his thinner leg bone- effect of not difference in strength but hardness of leg, because of it all of Vergos strength was kind of translated directly into one place of clash.
Now I find whole Vergo vs Sanji discussion strangely silly..
After this arc Sanji should be a match for likes of Vergo also for one of top commanders of Kaidos crew(lizard or goat zoan matrial artist would be cool).
Last edited by vagabond87; November 08, 2013 at 12:43 PM.