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Thread: Fleet Admiral is NOT an Admiral, whereas a Commodore IS an Admiral

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Fleet Admiral is NOT an Admiral, whereas a Commodore IS an Admiral

    Fleet Admiral (Gensui) is not—or not only—an 'Admiral' (Sho) but a 'Commander' (Sui), like Kong, who is a Commander-in-Chief (Sosui).

    There are only four ranks clearly named 'Admirals' (Sho) and Commodore (Junsho) is one of them.

    Unlike for instance OPwikia's systematization of OP Marine Ranks, I made one that accepts japanese original words (kanji) as a guide. I think we should group Marine ranks using OPverse's rationale instead of US Navy rationale.

    MARINE OFFICER RANKS

    Sui Rank Group *Senior Flag Officers
    総帥 [Zengun] Sosui *Commander-in-Chief **Commandant of the Forces

    元帥 [Kaigun] Gensui *Fleet Admiral **Commandant of the Marine


    Sho Rank Group *Flag Officers

    大将 Taisho *Admiral

    中将 Chujo *Vice Admiral
    少将 Shosho *Rear Admiral
    准将 Junsho *Commodore

    Sa Rank Group *Senior Officers
    大佐 Taisa *Captain
    中佐 Chusa *Commander
    少佐 Shosa *Lieutenant Commander

    I Rank Group *Junior Officers
    大尉 Taii *Lieutenant
    中尉 Chui *Lieutenant Junior Grade
    少尉 Shoi *Ensign

    准尉 Juni *Warrant Officer [No character]


    Obs.: According to Oda, "The Headquarters ranks and standard Base ranks are about three ranks apart." For example: Marine HQ Junior Officers (I Ranks) equal Marine Base Senior Officers (Sa Ranks).

    Spoiler show



    MARINE ENLISTED RANKS

    下士官 Kashikan Rank Group *Petty Officers **Non-commisioned Officers
    曹長 Socho *Master Chief Petty Officer **Sergeant Major
    軍曹 Gunso *Chief Petty Officer **Sergeant
    伍長 Gocho *Petty Officer **Corporal

    Hei Rank Group *Seamen **Privates
    一等兵 Ittohei *Seaman First Class **Private 1/c
    二等兵 Nitohei *Seaman Apprentice **Private 2/c
    三等兵 Santohei *Seaman Recruit **Private 3/c || 新兵 Shinpei *Recruit

    雑用 Zatsuyo *Chore Boy


    Spoiler show


    -----------------------------------------

    I believe Strawhat Pirates could be in the following group ranks:

    STRAWHAT PIRATES AS MARINES

    Sho Rank
    Luffy
    Zoro
    Sanji

    Sa Rank
    Franky
    Robin
    Brook

    I Rank
    Usopp
    Nami
    Chopper
    Last edited by alelucas; October 23, 2013 at 12:56 PM.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Fleet Admiral is NOT an Admiral, whereas a Commodore IS an Admiral

    Thanks for it, it really helped me out
    This was a little bit blurry for me !

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Fox666's Avatar
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    Re: Fleet Admiral is NOT an Admiral, whereas a Commodore IS an Admiral

    That's really interesting! The translation doesn't does not live up to the original.

    Looking at Wikipedia, it doesn't seems One Piece ranks matches real life ones. So why should they match the US Navy?

    If I had to think of some made-up names:

    Spoiler show
    Last edited by Fox666; October 19, 2013 at 08:44 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by IChallengeYou! View Post
    TOBI IS OBITO

    did you say something about timelines?! naruto ate it NOM NOM NOM IT'S GONE.

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    Re: Fleet Admiral is NOT an Admiral, whereas a Commodore IS an Admiral

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox666 View Post
    That's really interesting! The translation doesn't does not live up to the original.

    Looking at Wikipedia, it doesn't seems One Piece ranks matches real life ones. So why should they match the US Navy?
    Exactly! That's the question!

    Look at this one here. I think that slightly matches Marine ranks. Slightly! However, to us, what matters is to understand the structure (Sui Ranks, Sho Ranks etc) in the OPverse, especially what it says about power/strenght of OP characters. IMHO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox666 View Post
    If I had to think of some made-up names:

    Spoiler show
    I agree with your rank-translation rationale. That's the point.
    Last edited by alelucas; October 19, 2013 at 09:14 PM.

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    Re: Fleet Admiral is NOT an Admiral, whereas a Commodore IS an Admiral

    "Master Chief Petty Officer" sounds really funny.
    Erfworld

    Quote Originally Posted by Bromamura View Post
    Meh can't have Bleach without fan raging, makes it fun.

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    Re: Fleet Admiral is NOT an Admiral, whereas a Commodore IS an Admiral

    I disagree on your editing about the SH ranks.

    Chopper is very strong. Indeed he's always afraid, but he beated some strong guys in the past and I place him now just a little bit above brook in term of place.

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    Re: Fleet Admiral is NOT an Admiral, whereas a Commodore IS an Admiral

    Quote Originally Posted by Sproumfch View Post
    I disagree on your editing about the SH ranks.

    Chopper is very strong. Indeed he's always afraid, but he beated some strong guys in the past and I place him now just a little bit above brook in term of place.
    I agree. Chopper is full of potential. But you just indicated why he is not powerful yet: his physical strenght potential is diminished by his mental weakness, because he is too young, naive, imature. However, I think Chopper equals a Marine Junior Officer: a powerful rank IMO.

    We use to forget that mental strenght is as essential as physical strenght for assessing character power in OPverse. What you think?!

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    Re: Fleet Admiral is NOT an Admiral, whereas a Commodore IS an Admiral

    I don't get the attempt to put the SHs into comparable ranks. I assume it was meant to be based on ability, but I can't imagine that one would suggest that any of the SHs are on the same level as those ranked as junior officers. Even Nami and Usopp are at least senior officer-level, if not superior to the average Captain. Even way back at Enies Lobby, the SHs faced up against a force that was comprised of fighters with at least the rank of Lieutenant Commander.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Fox666's Avatar
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    Re: Fleet Admiral is NOT an Admiral, whereas a Commodore IS an Admiral

    Marine Ranks are very relative. Commodore Pudding Pudding was dispatched instantly by the Arlong pirates, while Commodore Yarisugi easily defeated a pirate with a bounty of 200 million.
    Quote Originally Posted by IChallengeYou! View Post
    TOBI IS OBITO

    did you say something about timelines?! naruto ate it NOM NOM NOM IT'S GONE.

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    Re: Fleet Admiral is NOT an Admiral, whereas a Commodore IS an Admiral

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox666 View Post
    Marine Ranks are very relative. Commodore Pudding Pudding was dispatched instantly by the Arlong pirates, while Commodore Yarisugi easily defeated a pirate with a bounty of 200 million.
    Perfect example. Although, it wasn't a one-on-one, Pudding Pudding was caught in the middle of the ocean by them. I imagine on land that Pudding may have been able to defeat them and that's why they decided to kill 'em off by drowning them.

    ---------- Post added at 08:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:51 PM ----------

    Usopp, Nami and Chopper Captain level at a minimum.

    You don't need Haki to be Captain level. You just need some serious special moves.
    For instance Captains Very Good, Shu, Sharinguru and more importantly the pathetically corrupt Nezumi.
    I believe that Nami and Usopp can defeat all of these characters in a fight since they both are specialists at keeping their distance in a fight.
    Captain Shu will beat Chopper though since Chopper is physical combat guy and you can't touch Captain Shu without Haki or a long-range attack.

    Not including Captain Hina who is just too strong for Captain rank imo.

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    Re: Fleet Admiral is NOT an Admiral, whereas a Commodore IS an Admiral

    Quote Originally Posted by Impossibility View Post
    I don't get the attempt to put the SHs into comparable ranks. I assume it was meant to be based on ability, but I can't imagine that one would suggest that any of the SHs are on the same level as those ranked as junior officers. Even Nami and Usopp are at least senior officer-level, if not superior to the average Captain. Even way back at Enies Lobby, the SHs faced up against a force that was comprised of fighters with at least the rank of Lieutenant Commander.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fox666 View Post
    Marine Ranks are very relative. Commodore Pudding Pudding was dispatched instantly by the Arlong pirates, while Commodore Yarisugi easily defeated a pirate with a bounty of 200 million.
    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Perfect example. Although, it wasn't a one-on-one, Pudding Pudding was caught in the middle of the ocean by them. I imagine on land that Pudding may have been able to defeat them and that's why they decided to kill 'em off by drowning them.
    Usopp, Nami and Chopper Captain level at a minimum.
    You don't need Haki to be Captain level. You just need some serious special moves.
    For instance Captains Very Good, Shu, Sharinguru and more importantly the pathetically corrupt Nezumi.
    I believe that Nami and Usopp can defeat all of these characters in a fight since they both are specialists at keeping their distance in a fight.
    Captain Shu will beat Chopper though since Chopper is physical combat guy and you can't touch Captain Shu without Haki or a long-range attack.
    Not including Captain Hina who is just too strong for Captain rank imo.
    IDK if it's the case, but there is a power difference of three ranks between HQ Junior Officers and ordinary Base Junior officers. Or rather, HQ Officers are super-elites.

    Quote Originally Posted by alelucas View Post
    Obs.: According to Oda, "The Headquarters ranks and standard Base ranks are about three ranks apart." For example: Marine HQ Junior Officers (I Ranks) equal Marine Base Senior Officers (Sa Ranks).
    If I understood, I believe Oda means something like this (I will use three-rank groups):

    Senior Flag Officers
    - Forces Commander [Admiral] *Commander-in-Chief
    - Marine Commander [Admiral] *Fleet Admiral
    - Admiral
    Elite Flag Officers
    - Vice Admiral
    - Read Admiral
    - Commodore
    Flag Officers <> Elite Senior Officers
    - Vice Admiral <> Captain
    - Rear Admiral <> Commander
    - Commodore <> Lt. Commander
    Senior Officers <> Elite Junior Officers
    - Captain <> Lieutenant
    - Commander <> Lt. Jr Grade
    - Lt. Commander <> Ensign
    Junior Officers
    - Lieutenant
    - Lt. Jr Grade
    - Ensign
    Senior Non-comissioned Officers
    - Warrant Officer [No character]

    Non-comissioned Officers *Petty Officers
    - Major Sergeant *Master Chief PO
    - Sergeant *Chief PO
    - Corporal *PO
    Privates *Seamen
    - Private 1/c *Seaman 1/c
    - Private 2/c *Seaman Apprentice
    - Private 3/c (Recruit) *Seaman Recruit
    Non-enlisted Personnel
    - Chore Boy

    -----------------------------
    Guys, did you note in that rank grouping the Senior Flag Officers are five 'Admirals'? I wonder if the Gorosei (Five Senior Stars) were a former powerful group of five Admirals (at least Four-Star Officers), now decommissioned.
    Last edited by alelucas; October 23, 2013 at 12:38 PM.

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    Re: Fleet Admiral is NOT an Admiral, whereas a Commodore IS an Admiral

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Perfect example. Although, it wasn't a one-on-one, Pudding Pudding was caught in the middle of the ocean by them. I imagine on land that Pudding may have been able to defeat them and that's why they decided to kill 'em off by drowning them.

    ---------- Post added at 08:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:51 PM ----------

    Usopp, Nami and Chopper Captain level at a minimum.

    You don't need Haki to be Captain level. You just need some serious special moves.
    For instance Captains Very Good, Shu, Sharinguru and more importantly the pathetically corrupt Nezumi.
    I believe that Nami and Usopp can defeat all of these characters in a fight since they both are specialists at keeping their distance in a fight.
    Captain Shu will beat Chopper though since Chopper is physical combat guy and you can't touch Captain Shu without Haki or a long-range attack.

    Not including Captain Hina who is just too strong for Captain rank imo.
    Shu using his ability on Zoro is filler. In the manga he's been shown using it only on his sword.

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