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Translations: Gintama 507 (2)
Putting Kirge aside, since I don't think this is the basis for the foreshadowing of Grimjows strength.
- Grimjow became Ichigo's rival, the one and only Hollow/Arrancar.
- Ishida is Ichigo's Quincy rival, and is also seemingly raising to great power after Juha "awakened" him.
- Ginjou will probably still be a fullbringer as a spirit (hunch), so he'll be Ichigos fullbringer/shinigami rival.
- Kenpachi/Byakuya are kinda an interesting due, a nice contrast that Kubo seems to be building up over the years, and both are sort of rivals as pure shinigami to Ichigo as well.
I suspect that these are the people who will stand behind Ichigo as his supporters in this war, they will be the hero's where everyone else fail. They would probably be the gang to re-build SS, making a new system, just like Yami-Jii did a thousand years ago with his own gang of supporters.
The perspective of Grimjow:
- Grimjows "goal" was to reach the highest in terms of srength and power, he kept looking forward, and meeting his fellow hollows/arrancars who are now dead, seems to have made him want to be king, judging his own words and Ichigos words in their battle + the important Grimjow flashback.
- Grimjow can't be King of HM if he can't muster the strength for it, he has to be badass, and surely, his goal was the become the strongest in the first place since we saw his and Ichigo's battle, so it's not all that far out there.
- Grimjow seems to get along with Ichigo after their battle, if not as friends, then as rival friends.
- Grimjow could have eaten Nnoitira and gained quite a lot of strength from that alone.
- Most of all, Ichigo can't be the only badass guy around, come on now!
- If Ichigo is to become anything as a leader or protector as his name suggests, then he needs supporters, and who else but Byakuya/Kenpachi, Grimjow, Ishida and even Ginjou (Although I'm not a fan of Ginjou, but I suppose he's like the black sheep here).
Here is the end result and conclusion of all from above.
This is partly hunches, partly objective evidence, however, I think this conclusion will be fairly likely.
- Ichigo as new Captain Commander, Shunsui will fail somehow or step down on his own.
- Kenpachi/Byakuya as Ichigo's right and left hand supporters and rivals same time.
- Grimjow as King of HM and protector of said realm.
- Ginjou to protect the outskirts of rukongai.
- Ishida as the new founder of the new Quincy in the human world, now working tightly together with the Shinigami.
A little off topic from this point and onwards
Shunsui might actually remain as Captain Commander, but I don't see where Ichigo would eventually belong in that case.
Either Ichigo becomes a Leader/Boss of sorts, or he returns to the human world and keeps living as a regular human.
In the latter case, the ending would suck, cause we've already seen this ending after Aizen, it can't be used again in my opinion, especially not after Ichigo wanting his powers back.
If Ichigo keeps his powers, then he'll stop growing like other humans, and in that respect, he would be lonely in the human world.
So in the end, Ichigo can only use either of these 2 options, in my opinion, namely because he wants to keep his powers to protect everyone, so he can't live in the human world forever:
- Stay in Soul Society, reforming it making a whole new system as the new CC.
- Becomes the Soul Kings right hand man, the protector of everything, standing below the Soul King, but above the Royal Guards, Shunsui remains as CC.
In thjis role, the Soul king has Ichigo as an offensive force to protect the world, and his 5 Royal Guards to protect himself.
I don't see Ichigo as the new Soul King either, that's kinda boring, but who knows.
Well that's just my opinion anyway
Not really unless he absorbed yammy then he could potentially be a threat. Overall, I think his hype has been mostly due to fanservice and his character.
Iirc, then hollows also can't eat someone too much weaker or perhaps in general weaker than themselves, but they should be able to grow stronger by eating someone exactly the same strength as themselves, othervice there would never have been any strong hollow in the first place.
The extremely important factor here is that we DON'T KNOW Grimjows natural limit, we simply have absolutely no idea just how strong his soul can become, if he could eat enough to reach it.
One should keep in mind Grimjows flashback here, it's quite important.
Putting that together, then Grimjow don't exactly require to eat Yammy to get strong, heck Nnoitra is lieing dead nearby, it'd make a whole lot of sense if he did eat Nnoitra in the first place, besides he's stronger than "old" Grimjow.
Perhaps it's possible to eat slightly weaker hollows too and still grow, but even so, there should be more possibilities than just Yammy to grow stronger, as we don't know how much stronger a hollow gets by eating someone like Yammy or Nnoitra.
Also there may rise new strong hollows all the time, Grimjow could have eaten someone who raised to rival his strength.
Then there are also the possibility that Aizen never found all of the Vastro Lords and Adjucas, it's a huge place, and it's not like they're organized or even easily trackable.
There are plenty of material that Kubo can use to backup Grimjows potential new powers, it wouldn't be an asspull or plot hole for that matter if he did something like this, heck it's even foreshadowed that Grimjow will get stronger in Ichigo's vs. Grimjows fight and Grimjows flashback.
---------- Post added at 03:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:18 PM ----------
Additionally Grimjow like any other Arrancar has tapped into shinigami powers, keep in mind that only strong souls keep control and becomes an evolved hollow, therefore this very soul should have had a large potential as a shinigami, had it been sended to Soul Society instead of becoming a hollow.
Putten in other words again, Grimjow could learn to grow his powers, like any other weaker Shinigami sometimes eventually becomes a strong Captain.
Just because an Arrancar unlucked their shinigami powers, does not mean they reached full capacity.
Look at Ichigo, he never had full access to his hollow powers in the start, heck atleast not until he fought against Ulq and Aizen respectively.
Last edited by Quantized; November 12, 2013 at 09:29 AM.
i still dont think grimmy could pass stark or the final form of ulquiorra unless he was able to obtain the second ressurricion like UQ did
then who knows....
Well, starrk was also pretty hax although in a slightly different form from barragan. Just look at what he could do with his abilities. His cero guns were freaking deadly, it took a very specific ability to actually counter those. The wolves are perhaps one of the most hax techniques we have seen. They were more powerful than mere ceros, they were intangible meaning they couldn't be physically stopped from reaching their target, once they did reach the target they could physically bind it via biting and to boot they could explode on call. And according to starrk the explosions were a decent bit stronger than ceros. Perhaps more important is the fact that the wolves were fragments of starrk's soul. It means each and every wolf was alive, could make decisions and react to whatever the enemy was doing. If they were actually connected to starrk then they could even work as a perfect recognizance tool. Starrk is the closest thing we have seen to a one man army so far and perhaps the only espada we have seen so far that could actually handle multiple powerful enemies like he did. Barragan was defeated by suifeng and hachi however hachi was ultimately not a captain class fighter as far as we know (he just had the tricks to pull it off). Harribel handled hitsugaya, liza and hiyori pretty well but I doubt those 3 would be more than love and rose combined. Even now I don't see how syunsui would have handled the wolves if he had had to fight them and quite frankly, it is difficult to imagine any captain against those (except perhaps hachi who would perhaps be able to defend from them with a barrier).
the question is can grimmy pass either of them
im not going to compare him to barrangar, because barrangars ability really has nothing to do with power it is more or less proximity based instant death
but to rank the others in power
2nd release UQ
0 form yami
so the question is could grimmy climb those rankings if he had some kind of upgrade....
as i said i feel that if UQ could reach that second level of ressurecion (sorry i know i misspelled it) then the other espada should also have that opprotunity either through unlocking the power or training
if that happened then yes i could see grimmy climbing the list and maybe passing up stark and yami, who knows maybe even UQ
A little bit disagree about your ranking, even though Byakuya + Kenpachi > big angry Yammy but these 2 wouldn't hold a candle against Stark in terms of speed + power. The comparison between Stark and Ulq 2 depends on their speeds, if Stark is faster than Ulq could throw his lances and then the notion how Ulq 2 was able to outrun those cero wolves.
I would think that is hard to say at this stage. Love and rose didn't get to fight starrk using their bankai so we really have no idea of how starrk would actually handle that multiple opponents at that release level going at him. mask and shikai is without a doubt a powerful combination but I do doubt it actually catches up to bankai. In turn yami did push bankai byakuya and eyepatchless kenpachi quite far, at least to the point where those two actually appear to have worked together to win, however unwillingly. Considering the bankai thing I would argue yami pushing byakuya and kenpachi that much is more of a feat than starrk pushing back love and rose with mask and shikai. Starrk has his feats here but he never actually fought anyone at bankai level. Every time his enemies were about to someone got in the way. Ukitake interfered with the fight when shunsui was going at it, shunsui got in the way when love and rose would have presumably gone at it. In turn, yami fought 2 people at the bankai level.
the question is could grimmjow overtake any of these, he was already the #6 espada, and i do not think passing up #5 would be hard, as in my opinion he is already the 5th strongest
the problem is we know he will not easily pass up UQ with UQ2 having that second ressurection
and i dont see him passing up harrible without reaching either a second ressurection of his own or some other type of major power upgrade
It's more about deep potential, and it seems like Grimmjow has it similar to Kenpachi. What's the point bringing him back without powering up? Therefore I think he is able to pass through either Stark's or Ulq's level but still below "White" considering it also grows along with Ichigo.
Even if Grimmjow is the current strongest espada, he's still no where near Ichigo's level, this big gap will never be changed.
Well, as far as kenpachi's strength it has never really been an issue of potential. realistically speaking kenpachi has always been exactly as powerful as he is now. Its not about him growing stronger and reaching his potential because kenpachi always had asinine strength which he subconsciously suppressed. In turn grimmjow does need to grow stronger, he doesn't have hidden strength which he only has to will himself to use (as far as the manga has cared to tell us at least). Grimmjow needs to grow more traditionally stronger. I also doubt white is much of a standard of strength here. Didn't ishin ultimately have an easy time with him? If it wasn't for aizen ishin would have reduced white to ash merely with his shikai, in other words a fraction of his full power. White was pretty good but only captain shikai good, not full power captain good.
Kenpachi had his eyepatch on the entire time during the fight and was cutting yammy like butter.
And there is a HUGE difference in powers between some Captains, some Captains may be "bankai level" without even using Bankai.
I would consider a masked shikai Love and Rose to be equal or even better than some Captains with Bankai if you ask me, Same with Shunsui who I think would easily be able to handle other bankai users with nothing more than his shikai.
Fact is that I believe Stark fought the best of the best without fighting Yama himself the shinigami had to offer, Shunsui was a future Captain commander with Ukitake at least be somewhat around his level, and then we have 2 veteran Shinigami turned Vizard who can boost their powers due to their masks and Stark was still able to handle all of them with very little effort albeit not all at once. Ulquirra pwned Ichigo who was by no means the strongest character shown at the time so I don't see why people hype him to no end, and all his 2nd form allowed him to do was more of the same, so how any kind of powerboost can be accounted for is beyond me since all that changed was him being able to regenerate and having a couple new attacks.
Last edited by BaddAzzKenpachi74; November 13, 2013 at 10:33 PM.
We saw kenpachi cutting up yami before yami got really angry and transformed though. And by the time he arrived to SS his eyepatch was gone and he had some wounds on him. I would think its pretty safe to assume kenpachi fought yami alongside byakuya without his eyepatch.
To be honest I don't see how mask + shikai alone could match a bankai. i would agree in that is is a significant boost however the way bankai works I doubt mask alone would be a match. Mask provides a moderate increase in reiatsu, bankai consumes an overwhelming amount of it.
As far as starrk goes, the guy fought continuously a bunch of guys in shikai. It is pretty impressive in itself that he did but in the end matching a resurreccion without shikai is quite an accomplishment and from what I gather no one at that fight actually managed that. I mean, shunsui had help from ukitake when starrk used metralleta, when ukitake was about to try metralleta on ukitake wonderweiss appeared (thus we never saw whether ukitake could have absorbed the whole thing and odds are he couldn't), love and rose at shikai-mask where overwhelmed by a power comparable to bankai and when the lot of them would have presumably gone all out shunsui literally backstabbed him and forced starrk into a close range fight (which considering his guns and wolves would appear to not be his strong side, at least in comparison to his ranged techniques).
I agree in that some captains are stronger than others however I have my doubts about any one of them actually matching a bankai with shikai alone safe for yamamoto and unohana. Shunsui is without a doubt one of the stronger captains however I do have trouble seeing him win against a bankai with just shikai. I don't think he has shown the overwhelming strength such a thing would imply so far. Yamamoto was in that category and his presence alone destroyed stuff. Unohana handled kenpachi without an eyepatch easily so that clearly is bankai level. Shunsui in turn has not really shown anything that seems that high up in the power charts. Even his handling of starrk could easily be attributed to starrk fighting 4 different captains and the backstabbing. I don't really see shunsui actually winning against a captains bankai with shikai although I would agree in that he could win comfortably if it comes to bankai vs bankai. The consideration here is that even if shunsui is strong his abilities are extremely inconvenient. His games are as much of a liability against him as his enemies, he relies on the advantage of knowing the rules and that can easily go the more a battle drags out. Imagine shunsui playing the color game against byakuya. Even a single petal could actually deal significant damage if byakuya calls the right color....
Its hard to say because even grimmy at his peak wasnt as tough for ichigo as the first reasurection UQ
honestly even unressurrected UQ (base form) would have probably beaten the strongest form of grimmy
I don't think the situation would have been that bad for grimmjow. Ichigo did easily overwhelm base ulquiorra with his mask-bankai combo and from what we saw at the time he was about as strong as released grimmjow. I would think released grimmjow would have been just about as effective against sealed ulquiorra. We also did see a short confrontation between ulquiorra and grimmjow and grimjow did not really appear to be at that much of a disadvantage either. Then again, if it comes to a battle of resurrecciones then ulquiorra should by all intents and purposes have as easy a victory over grimmjow as he did against ichigo.